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Replying To Albundy19: " Replying To Pikeman96: "There was a element of grading in the main Leinster Minor Football Championship all right:
- two groups of four, where top two went straight to quarter-finals, and third went to a preliminary quarter-final
- one group of the "weaker" three of Wicklow, Wexford, and Carlow, where just the top two went though, and only to a preliminary quarter-finals.
As it happens, both Wicklow and Wexford won their preliminary quarter-finals. Wicklow beat Offaly, and Wexford beat Meath.
Both then lost their quarter-finals. Wexford lost to Dublin, and Wicklow lost to Louth. Louth then lost to Longford in the semi-final, and it was Longford who went on to win the final, beating Dublin there in a big shock result.
What I was referring to as a new tiered structure came into play after the provincial championships. And I stand corrected on it, because Wicklow competed in Tier 2 rather than Tier 3. It was the new All-Ireland competition:
- Tier 1 for provincial champions & runners-up
- Tier 2 for defeated semi-finalists and quarter-finalists. That's where Wicklow & Wexford went.
- Tier 3 for other teams.
However, despite what Albundy19 claims above about "our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship", Wicklow minor hurlers played in the main Leinster Championship proper too.
Just as in football, they were placed in the "weaker" side of it (Tier 2). But Tier 2 still provided a pathway for the two teams to emerge from it to play Dublin, Galway, Kilkenny or Wexford in a quarter-final.
Has to said they didn't fare very well in it, but they still played in the main championship rather than some sort of "minor C or even D" that doesn't exist. The Married With Children man might want to let that sink in, as he might say himself. :)" Wicklow hurlers got annihilated the one year recently that they tried to step up if I'm not mistaken ,other than that they have been playing down , where as the footballers have been playing a decent level and not getting hammered,Let's be honest here."
Imagine how well you could be going if your hurlers got the same CB promotion and support as your footballers?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13861 - 14/11/2024 10:39:33
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@Albundy19 - I'm just addressing your incorrect claim that "our minor footballers play in the minor championship proper, our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship".
The facts are that both your minor footballers and minor hurlers competed in the appropriate tier of the minor championship "proper" this year, and that there was no Minor C or even D for hurling.
I'm not making any comment or judgement on how your minor footballers or hurlers actually fared.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2620 - 14/11/2024 11:43:31
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Replying To liam500: " Replying To Albundy19: "[quote=Pikeman96: "There was a element of grading in the main Leinster Minor Football Championship all right:
- two groups of four, where top two went straight to quarter-finals, and third went to a preliminary quarter-final
- one group of the "weaker" three of Wicklow, Wexford, and Carlow, where just the top two went though, and only to a preliminary quarter-finals.
As it happens, both Wicklow and Wexford won their preliminary quarter-finals. Wicklow beat Offaly, and Wexford beat Meath.
Both then lost their quarter-finals. Wexford lost to Dublin, and Wicklow lost to Louth. Louth then lost to Longford in the semi-final, and it was Longford who went on to win the final, beating Dublin there in a big shock result.
What I was referring to as a new tiered structure came into play after the provincial championships. And I stand corrected on it, because Wicklow competed in Tier 2 rather than Tier 3. It was the new All-Ireland competition:
- Tier 1 for provincial champions & runners-up
- Tier 2 for defeated semi-finalists and quarter-finalists. That's where Wicklow & Wexford went.
- Tier 3 for other teams.
However, despite what Albundy19 claims above about "our minor hurlers play in the minor C or even D championship", Wicklow minor hurlers played in the main Leinster Championship proper too.
Just as in football, they were placed in the "weaker" side of it (Tier 2). But Tier 2 still provided a pathway for the two teams to emerge from it to play Dublin, Galway, Kilkenny or Wexford in a quarter-final.
Has to said they didn't fare very well in it, but they still played in the main championship rather than some sort of "minor C or even D" that doesn't exist. The Married With Children man might want to let that sink in, as he might say himself. :)" Wicklow hurlers got annihilated the one year recently that they tried to step up if I'm not mistaken ,other than that they have been playing down , where as the footballers have been playing a decent level and not getting hammered,Let's be honest here."
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2023 - 15/11/2024 14:26:44
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Personally I don't think there's any merit in trying to compare our success (or lack there of) in underage football to where we are with regards Hurling. It's not an apples to apples comparison , too totally different games where the spread of standards & levels are completely different.
As other posters have highlighted , we have improved our approach in recent years with academy structures, better coaching etc but still are not making any great strides towards the top level in Leinster underage football. We are better than where were at 10/15 years ago but so is everyone else and the bar has been risen higher. If there's some hope for us it's in what Longford have done this year by emerging from the pack to put it up to the big guns.
I'm fairly of the belief , and have stated on here many times, that we have significant untapped potential in hurling. For close on the four decades I have been involved in Wicklow GAA all focus, energy , resourcing , funding, exposure etc has been funneled to football , with hurling treated often disgracefully at times.
Despite that , a small band of hurling people continue to drive it on and keep us operating in that middle tier of counties.
Carlow, Westmeath and now KIldare are showing what can be done when you invest some effort into Hurling.
Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 138 - 15/11/2024 15:38:30
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Replying To Hawkeye2: "Personally I don't think there's any merit in trying to compare our success (or lack there of) in underage football to where we are with regards Hurling. It's not an apples to apples comparison , too totally different games where the spread of standards & levels are completely different.
As other posters have highlighted , we have improved our approach in recent years with academy structures, better coaching etc but still are not making any great strides towards the top level in Leinster underage football. We are better than where were at 10/15 years ago but so is everyone else and the bar has been risen higher. If there's some hope for us it's in what Longford have done this year by emerging from the pack to put it up to the big guns.
I'm fairly of the belief , and have stated on here many times, that we have significant untapped potential in hurling. For close on the four decades I have been involved in Wicklow GAA all focus, energy , resourcing , funding, exposure etc has been funneled to football , with hurling treated often disgracefully at times.
Despite that , a small band of hurling people continue to drive it on and keep us operating in that middle tier of counties.
Carlow, Westmeath and now KIldare are showing what can be done when you invest some effort into Hurling." Hypothetical question - do you think we should focus more on hurling than on football in terms of resources? Hurling is a more skilful game; harder to master than football. On the plus side, there are much less counties to compete against in the hurling championship than in the football equivalent.
With a potential rule change in football, I think our approach should change in terms of how we develop players - I think the skills will come back to the fore over physical conditioning. There is a huge advantage by encouraging underage players to kick with both their left and their right feet. With potentially more space close to goal if the rules are changed, there will be more room for inside forwards.
wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2023 - 15/11/2024 19:42:11
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Hats off to Bray and Avondale on their wins today. Let's see if Bray can finally get Wicklow hurling back into senior ranks. Wexford champs will be no pushover but no better team than Bray Emmets to pull a shock. Also great hopes that the Dales can lift some silverware too.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 16/11/2024 19:01:14
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Well done to the hurling clubs that advance to the Leinster semi finals. Exciting times ahead.
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 187 - 16/11/2024 19:17:21
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Well done to both Wicklow hurling teams on winning again in Leinster. Tough ask for them both next week. Rathnure will be no pushover but Bray will put it up to them. Avondale will be up against it going by the scoreline of the Kilkenny champions today playing in Dublin. A heavy away win
Gaa_supporter (Wicklow) - Posts: 20 - 16/11/2024 22:46:39
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Replying To wicklowsupport: "Hypothetical question - do you think we should focus more on hurling than on football in terms of resources? Hurling is a more skilful game; harder to master than football. On the plus side, there are much less counties to compete against in the hurling championship than in the football equivalent.
With a potential rule change in football, I think our approach should change in terms of how we develop players - I think the skills will come back to the fore over physical conditioning. There is a huge advantage by encouraging underage players to kick with both their left and their right feet. With potentially more space close to goal if the rules are changed, there will be more room for inside forwards." I'd never advocate prioritizing one or the other, I'd love to see us progressing at both. I would love to see Hurling being given equal status though and some sort of multi-year Hurling plan put in place with reasonable goals for progress laid out with ring fenced funding.
I cringe when I see previous initiatives being kicked off in the county (like with Pat Gilroy a few years ago ) and these easy sound bites being thrown out like " we aim to win a Leinster Minor championship within the next 5 years" . Maybe that's the ambition that the Sponsors want to hear and it's great to have ambition but we need to be realistic otherwise we're setting ourselves up for failure.
In hurling, with sustained focus & investment , wouldn't this be a great first step
- The following clubs competing & competitive at A grade U15 , U17 & U19: Bray, Carnew, Glenealy, Pats, Luke O Tooles, Michael Dwyers, Avondale, Arklow Rocks, Eire Og
- Development Plan implemented for clubs to return to hurling, continue to progress or introduce hurling for first time - thinking clubs like KIlcoole, Enniskerry, Newcastle, Western Gaels, Avoca, Barndarrig , Knockanna etc
- Win the All Ireland U20 B Championship
- Be competitive in the Leinster Minor A championship
Two big victories at the weekend for Bray and Avondale hurlers at the weekend. Congrats to both clubs. Great to see Avondale back flourishing in Hurling again. Traditional hurling stronghold in Wicklow and with a lovely mix of some old stalwarts and nice young skillful hurlers.
Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 138 - 18/11/2024 14:47:18
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Replying To Hawkeye2: "I'd never advocate prioritizing one or the other, I'd love to see us progressing at both. I would love to see Hurling being given equal status though and some sort of multi-year Hurling plan put in place with reasonable goals for progress laid out with ring fenced funding.
I cringe when I see previous initiatives being kicked off in the county (like with Pat Gilroy a few years ago ) and these easy sound bites being thrown out like " we aim to win a Leinster Minor championship within the next 5 years" . Maybe that's the ambition that the Sponsors want to hear and it's great to have ambition but we need to be realistic otherwise we're setting ourselves up for failure.
In hurling, with sustained focus & investment , wouldn't this be a great first step
- The following clubs competing & competitive at A grade U15 , U17 & U19: Bray, Carnew, Glenealy, Pats, Luke O Tooles, Michael Dwyers, Avondale, Arklow Rocks, Eire Og
- Development Plan implemented for clubs to return to hurling, continue to progress or introduce hurling for first time - thinking clubs like KIlcoole, Enniskerry, Newcastle, Western Gaels, Avoca, Barndarrig , Knockanna etc
- Win the All Ireland U20 B Championship
- Be competitive in the Leinster Minor A championship
Two big victories at the weekend for Bray and Avondale hurlers at the weekend. Congrats to both clubs. Great to see Avondale back flourishing in Hurling again. Traditional hurling stronghold in Wicklow and with a lovely mix of some old stalwarts and nice young skillful hurlers." Looking from the outside I think the county senior team has regressed over the last number of years. Never good when a county with talented of hurlers are playing NR Cup & in Division 3 of the league. Ring semi finalist and division 2 semi finalists is where the county are more than capable of reaching IMO
BaileCrann (Down) - Posts: 36 - 18/11/2024 15:26:08
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Replying To BaileCrann: "Looking from the outside I think the county senior team has regressed over the last number of years. Never good when a county with talented of hurlers are playing NR Cup & in Division 3 of the league. Ring semi finalist and division 2 semi finalists is where the county are more than capable of reaching IMO" No problem with your contribution and indeed it's good to get an outside perspective. Sadly we have been slowly sinking for years. Back in the 70s the National Hurling League had, if memory serves, two divisions. Div 1 and Div 1B. We were always at least comfortable mid table in Div 1B. That would be top 12 or so in the country. Where are we now ?? In the early 70s we won an intermediate Hurling All Ireland and a Junior one in the same year. Sadly it has been steadily downhill from there. Other teams have stepped up, Kerry, Carlow, Westmeath, Down, Meath etc but we just keep slowly sinking. We make the occasional rally but these are short lived. I will probably get slated here but these are the facts, and there is no way to dress them up any other way b
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 18/11/2024 15:49:40
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Replying To Freethinker: "No problem with your contribution and indeed it's good to get an outside perspective. Sadly we have been slowly sinking for years. Back in the 70s the National Hurling League had, if memory serves, two divisions. Div 1 and Div 1B. We were always at least comfortable mid table in Div 1B. That would be top 12 or so in the country. Where are we now ?? In the early 70s we won an intermediate Hurling All Ireland and a Junior one in the same year. Sadly it has been steadily downhill from there. Other teams have stepped up, Kerry, Carlow, Westmeath, Down, Meath etc but we just keep slowly sinking. We make the occasional rally but these are short lived. I will probably get slated here but these are the facts, and there is no way to dress them up any other way b" You are right, but that surely has something to do with the way hurling is treated by the CB up your way?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13861 - 18/11/2024 16:53:55
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Replying To Viking66: "You are right, but that surely has something to do with the way hurling is treated by the CB up your way?" It's most definitely down to the CB and the lack of any sort of vision or support for Hurling. During the 2000s and into the 2010s I believe we punched above our weight in Hurling with a core group , the likes of the O'Neills, Wayne O'Gorman, Leighton Glynn in Glenealy, the Collins's, Doran's, Don Hyland, Graham Keogh etc in Carnew, the Bermingham's, O'Tooles , John Keogh etc in Kiltegan. All lads who wouldn't look out of place in any hurling county. Our club champions played in the senior Leinster club championship and always gave a good account of themselves. At county level we'd compete against the Carlows , Westmeaths, Meaths etc and expect to win as many as we'd lose. Now we wouldn't get within 10/12 points of these teams.
Over time these lads have retired and all of Carnew , Glenealy & Kiltegan have regressed to various degrees ( although starting now to come back around again).
Bray have come to the fore to take their place but their success is down to the happy accident of hurling folks like John Henderson locating in their town and not due to any great master plan for developing hurling from our CB.
Hawkeye2 (Wicklow) - Posts: 138 - 18/11/2024 21:22:25
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Replying To Hawkeye2: "It's most definitely down to the CB and the lack of any sort of vision or support for Hurling. During the 2000s and into the 2010s I believe we punched above our weight in Hurling with a core group , the likes of the O'Neills, Wayne O'Gorman, Leighton Glynn in Glenealy, the Collins's, Doran's, Don Hyland, Graham Keogh etc in Carnew, the Bermingham's, O'Tooles , John Keogh etc in Kiltegan. All lads who wouldn't look out of place in any hurling county. Our club champions played in the senior Leinster club championship and always gave a good account of themselves. At county level we'd compete against the Carlows , Westmeaths, Meaths etc and expect to win as many as we'd lose. Now we wouldn't get within 10/12 points of these teams.
Over time these lads have retired and all of Carnew , Glenealy & Kiltegan have regressed to various degrees ( although starting now to come back around again).
Bray have come to the fore to take their place but their success is down to the happy accident of hurling folks like John Henderson locating in their town and not due to any great master plan for developing hurling from our CB." Couldn't have put that better myself Hawkeye.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1265 - 18/11/2024 21:53:14
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Replying To Hawkeye2: "It's most definitely down to the CB and the lack of any sort of vision or support for Hurling. During the 2000s and into the 2010s I believe we punched above our weight in Hurling with a core group , the likes of the O'Neills, Wayne O'Gorman, Leighton Glynn in Glenealy, the Collins's, Doran's, Don Hyland, Graham Keogh etc in Carnew, the Bermingham's, O'Tooles , John Keogh etc in Kiltegan. All lads who wouldn't look out of place in any hurling county. Our club champions played in the senior Leinster club championship and always gave a good account of themselves. At county level we'd compete against the Carlows , Westmeaths, Meaths etc and expect to win as many as we'd lose. Now we wouldn't get within 10/12 points of these teams.
Over time these lads have retired and all of Carnew , Glenealy & Kiltegan have regressed to various degrees ( although starting now to come back around again).
Bray have come to the fore to take their place but their success is down to the happy accident of hurling folks like John Henderson locating in their town and not due to any great master plan for developing hurling from our CB." That's a shame, hurling needs counties getting stronger at it, not weaker.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13861 - 18/11/2024 22:00:00
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