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I agree with the argument that competition reform is less important than the bigger problems around finance and population trends. Those trends in particular could make inter-county even less competitive.

I'd love to see a brand new 8 to 12 inter-region Al, similar to T20 cricket, but based on 'half provinces'.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2151 - 16/10/2021 17:25:52    2385845

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Replying To Rebel2020:  "Under Proposal A and C, the only metrics that you can use to measure success is winning a provincial title or All Ireland. At least under Proposal B, counties have clear ambitions ( top 5 in division 1, avoid relegation, gain promotion etc ) ."
Dear God !!!

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5691 - 16/10/2021 17:39:51    2385848

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Dear God !!!"
Bit rich coming from the person whose best argument is 'ah league is league' and that's that no matter what anyone says.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3825 - 16/10/2021 18:57:02    2385857

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Dear God !!!"
Or Holy God as Miley would say.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1564 - 16/10/2021 19:11:02    2385858

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Gaelic Games compromises of professional counties who have resouces both financial and human capital, big sponsorship deals and these counties are pitted against teams who are largely amateur, small population, incompotent county boards, small sponsorship - run on a shoestring im comparison to their rich counterparts. Mayo versus Leitrim springs to mind. The two tier championship is designed to sideline these smaller counties and allow the big boys compete against themselves in the Al competition. No amount of restructing will level this sloped playing pitch. Centralise the sponsorship and distribute these funds evenly amongst the 31 counties. There is no way to even the population equation. At least allow counties compete on a level playing field for a five year period, if there is no improvement then restructure.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1433 - 16/10/2021 19:23:06    2385860

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "Gaelic Games compromises of professional counties who have resouces both financial and human capital, big sponsorship deals and these counties are pitted against teams who are largely amateur, small population, incompotent county boards, small sponsorship - run on a shoestring im comparison to their rich counterparts. Mayo versus Leitrim springs to mind. The two tier championship is designed to sideline these smaller counties and allow the big boys compete against themselves in the Al competition. No amount of restructing will level this sloped playing pitch. Centralise the sponsorship and distribute these funds evenly amongst the 31 counties. There is no way to even the population equation. At least allow counties compete on a level playing field for a five year period, if there is no improvement then restructure."
How much money will it take to enable Leitrim to beat Mayo?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 52 - 16/10/2021 21:31:27    2385872

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "And bring back 21 aside and point posts while you're at it!!!
I'm sure Leitrim would love 3 hammerings every year in a Provincial round Robin instead of only 1 as at present."
Tell me how many times did Leitrim get hammered before the rules where changed as I mention very rarely. They were competitive while under the current rules they are whipping boys. New system does not raise standards it keeps those at the bottom down and those at the top up simple. Hq get to avoid having a level playing field

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 16/10/2021 21:56:39    2385876

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Replying To Greengrass:  "We're not stuck with the status quo of Option B is rejected. We are being asked to take the provincial championships out of the championship and to play them as pre season competitions. We are also being asked to bin the National League. Everyone agrees that the league is a great competition why bin it? Option B is a hybrid competition which will see half of the top 16 teams left without knockout championship football while all of the 16 teams below them will have knockout football either in the Sam Maguire or in the Tailteann Cup. The details of Option B haven't finalised yet because the details of the Tailteann Cup haven't been decidedypon. We are left with a hybrid competition where winning the leagues in the top two divisions will not be the primary motivation. Getting to the knockout stages of the Sam Maguire will be the primary option. Compare this mongrel competition to the structures in hurling. Every county in hurling takes part in the National League. This is then followed by five tiered competitions which are played off on a league basis with finals. The Liam McCarthy retained the provincial championships as a core element of the championship. What is available to the hurlers will be vastly superior to what will be available to footballers should Option B be passed. We are not stuck with the status quo if Option B is binned. We need to go back to the drawing board and come back with viable, equitable options. Option B is neither viable or equitable. It is a very poor option."
We are stuck with the status quo if we don't change now. It's A, B or status quo. Delegates don't even have to vote in that way
I'm they have to vote for A which will be defeated
Then they get to vote for B
If B doesn't get 60% then it's the status quo

Despite the complaints about B - the current system is actually the worst of the 3 options

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 879 - 17/10/2021 08:43:29    2385880

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To summarise the issues with the three options

current system
1. League is best competition but is played off in 2.5 months in bad weather
2. Provincial championship is lopsided and only 8 counties have a chance of winning one next year
3. 50% of counties will out of the championship by the 1st week of June having only played - 9 matches
4. There is a guaranteed 10 hammerings to be handed out in the provincial championship

Option B
1. All of the above problems except the worst counties in Ulster and three worst counties in Leinster will get a 10th game
2. Likely extra 2-3 hammerings added
3. All Ireland B for the worst 16 teams - 8 of which will have had at least 1 hammering and some will have had 2
4. Winning the B means you can be in it the following year so will have only a league promotion to play for in the 2nd year

Option C
1. 4-6 provincial league matches between Feb and March but will not be at full pelt
2. Guaranteed 7 championship games around the country v teams of same ability in April, May and June - far to competitive
3. Knockout football in July if you qualify for it - teams in div 1 who lose 3-4 matches in April/May/June don't get a chance to lose again in July
4. Hammerings limited to early spring -but unlikely as stronger teams will be experimenting
5. More matches and a longer season for players for weaker counties

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 879 - 17/10/2021 09:05:28    2385882

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Replying To wexico15:  "Bit rich coming from the person whose best argument is 'ah league is league' and that's that no matter what anyone says."
There were plenty of points made. You don't agree with me and I don't agree with you.. C'est la vie. We can do much, much better than Option B.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5691 - 17/10/2021 09:34:45    2385884

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "How much money will it take to enable Leitrim to beat Mayo?"
The investment into the weaker that I refer to is to help the weaker counties reach a standard whereby they can compete against the well-resourced professional teams. Look how targeted investment worked in Dublin, why can't the same be done in the case of the weaker counties? By the way I am not talking exclusively about money, it could be expertise in S&C, diet or psychology. I don't believe for one minute that a new structured championship will bridge the gap between the professional run teams and the amateur run teams, it is falllacy. The objective is to take the weaker counties out of the championship and play the championshop amongst the elite - another form of the super 8. The GAA has sold its soul at intercounty level which is why i am planning to abandon it and just focus on the club scene.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1433 - 17/10/2021 11:19:53    2385894

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https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1015/1253935-division-3-and-4-managers-give-backing-to-proposal-b/

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3825 - 17/10/2021 11:22:20    2385895

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Replying To wexico15:  "https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1015/1253935-division-3-and-4-managers-give-backing-to-proposal-b/"
I personally don't like the proposal at all but I do get where you're coming from in that players and managers are in favour of it and you've got to give that a lot of weight.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3627 - 17/10/2021 13:52:14    2385903

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A significant proviso in that RTE story as well, though:
However, a number of those managers also made it clear that they were not 100% convinced on the proposal, and felt that tweaks would be necessary for it to succeed.

Seems to be growing support for proposal B all right, and the question seems to be becoming:
(a) Do we pass it, despite the flaws that even its supporters acknowledge that it has?
or
(b) Do we stick with what we have until the flaws are ironed out somehow, and maybe come back in year or two with a better proposal?

I still can't see (a) getting 60% support, but I suppose we'll know one way or the other by this time next week.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 756 - 17/10/2021 15:36:56    2385909

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The investment into the weaker that I refer to is to help the weaker counties reach a standard whereby they can compete against the well-resourced professional teams. Look how targeted investment worked in Dublin, why can't the same be done in the case of the weaker counties? By the way I am not talking exclusively about money, it could be expertise in S&C, diet or psychology. I don't believe for one minute that a new structured championship will bridge the gap between the professional run teams and the amateur run teams, it is falllacy. The objective is to take the weaker counties out of the championship and play the championshop amongst the elite - another form of the super 8. The GAA has sold its soul at intercounty level which is why i am planning to abandon it and just focus on the club scene."
Majority of counties S&C, diet is fine though. They have very good strength and conditioning coaches working with them. nutritionists the same.
Changing the format of inter county championship and having the top sides play each other more and other sides at their own level playing each other more is a good thing
What teams are run in an amateur way then?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2549 - 17/10/2021 15:45:55    2385911

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Majority of counties S&C, diet is fine though. They have very good strength and conditioning coaches working with them. nutritionists the same.
Changing the format of inter county championship and having the top sides play each other more and other sides at their own level playing each other more is a good thing
What teams are run in an amateur way then?"
The strength and conditioning programs the top 4 or 5 teams are on is miles ahead of the rest. They basically train and prepare as semi professionals.

Having a league/championship with the top sides faring off more often will only widened the gap between the top 5 and the rest. What we need is the return to Div 1A, 1B divsions if they are to run with a league championship as the gap started once that league format was scrapped.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2588 - 17/10/2021 16:12:48    2385914

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Replying To wexico15:  "https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1015/1253935-division-3-and-4-managers-give-backing-to-proposal-b/"
Maybe you might highlight the reservations that those managers have about Option B.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5691 - 17/10/2021 16:46:36    2385919

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "The strength and conditioning programs the top 4 or 5 teams are on is miles ahead of the rest. They basically train and prepare as semi professionals.

Having a league/championship with the top sides faring off more often will only widened the gap between the top 5 and the rest. What we need is the return to Div 1A, 1B divsions if they are to run with a league championship as the gap started once that league format was scrapped."
Naming the divisions 1A, 1B, 1C, etc. or 1,2,3, and 4 isn't going to make one iota of a difference. It's just terminology.

The gap widened because certain counties set up academies from under 14 up, and employed personnel who studied sports science. They applied the knowledge and latest scientific data to informing, educating, training and developing the young players in these academies.

That is how the gap widened, not because the names or structures of the leagues were changed. No more than you will you bridge the gap any bit, by changing them back!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 740 - 17/10/2021 17:18:43    2385924

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Going by some proposals does it mean Mayo wouldn't have been in the All Ireland championship in 2020. Div1 league of that year Mayo 7th, Meath 8th. No a lot of sense in that. Others saying if you go down from Div 1 then you have no chance of winning Sam, again look at Mayo. There would be uproar if God forbid Dublin or Kerry finished in bottom of Div 1, and rightly so.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 988 - 17/10/2021 17:50:48    2385930

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Naming the divisions 1A, 1B, 1C, etc. or 1,2,3, and 4 isn't going to make one iota of a difference. It's just terminology.

The gap widened because certain counties set up academies from under 14 up, and employed personnel who studied sports science. They applied the knowledge and latest scientific data to informing, educating, training and developing the young players in these academies.

That is how the gap widened, not because the names or structures of the leagues were changed. No more than you will you bridge the gap any bit, by changing them back!"
Good post. Agreed.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3878 - 17/10/2021 17:51:45    2385931

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