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Upcoming Special Congress

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Naming the divisions 1A, 1B, 1C, etc. or 1,2,3, and 4 isn't going to make one iota of a difference. It's just terminology.

The gap widened because certain counties set up academies from under 14 up, and employed personnel who studied sports science. They applied the knowledge and latest scientific data to informing, educating, training and developing the young players in these academies.

That is how the gap widened, not because the names or structures of the leagues were changed. No more than you will you bridge the gap any bit, by changing them back!"
You've misunderstood. 1A/1B refers to old structure which only had 2 tiers of 16 followed by semi-finals and finals.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 456 - 17/10/2021 17:59:33    2385936

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The investment into the weaker that I refer to is to help the weaker counties reach a standard whereby they can compete against the well-resourced professional teams. Look how targeted investment worked in Dublin, why can't the same be done in the case of the weaker counties? By the way I am not talking exclusively about money, it could be expertise in S&C, diet or psychology. I don't believe for one minute that a new structured championship will bridge the gap between the professional run teams and the amateur run teams, it is falllacy. The objective is to take the weaker counties out of the championship and play the championshop amongst the elite - another form of the super 8. The GAA has sold its soul at intercounty level which is why i am planning to abandon it and just focus on the club scene."
Good for you but you are in the minority.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 456 - 17/10/2021 18:01:47    2385937

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Naming the divisions 1A, 1B, 1C, etc. or 1,2,3, and 4 isn't going to make one iota of a difference. It's just terminology.

The gap widened because certain counties set up academies from under 14 up, and employed personnel who studied sports science. They applied the knowledge and latest scientific data to informing, educating, training and developing the young players in these academies.

That is how the gap widened, not because the names or structures of the leagues were changed. No more than you will you bridge the gap any bit, by changing them back!"
I can't agree with that foreveryoung. What you cite as being responsible for widening the gap did contribute to that happening. However the best were playing the best year in year out in the league. The quality of football noticeably improves as you go up the divisions. Many promoted teams return to the division form whence they came the year after gaining promotion. Mistakes that go unpunished in Division Two will be punished in Division One. How many teams that are promoted to Division One manage to stay in the division long term? Roscommon work hard at under age level but they can't make that final step. I agree that technology and science has a part to play but I think the restructuring of the league fourteen years ago has also played a significantly part in widening the gap between the intercounty teams.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5691 - 17/10/2021 19:04:17    2385947

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "The investment into the weaker that I refer to is to help the weaker counties reach a standard whereby they can compete against the well-resourced professional teams. Look how targeted investment worked in Dublin, why can't the same be done in the case of the weaker counties? By the way I am not talking exclusively about money, it could be expertise in S&C, diet or psychology. I don't believe for one minute that a new structured championship will bridge the gap between the professional run teams and the amateur run teams, it is falllacy. The objective is to take the weaker counties out of the championship and play the championshop amongst the elite - another form of the super 8. The GAA has sold its soul at intercounty level which is why i am planning to abandon it and just focus on the club scene."
The Championship has always been played amongst the Elite. The new proposal wont be any different really. What it will give is the weaker Counties a season of similar duration to the elite, whilst playing against a more appropriate standard. This gives them a better chance of getting better. Hence why all the players and managers from weaker Counties are coming out strongly for the change.
For some reason in the world of the GAA, some people think there's a silver bullet that's going to enable all teams compete at the same level. Ironically, not a sport in the world has this type of competition.

Enjoy the club championship. If proposal B gets through and with some small tweaks over the coming seasons, the Inter-County Football Championship format will be the very same as the club!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1217 - 17/10/2021 19:28:19    2385953

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If Proposal B comes in you could have 8 Ulster teams in last 10!!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 52 - 17/10/2021 19:58:17    2385959

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Maybe you might highlight the reservations that those managers have about Option B."
The link is there for people to take what they want from it, no matter what their viewpoint is, i wont highlight anything for either side, debate is healthy and i don't want the status quo to remain because i think its stale and broken and you don't want option B because you think it has flaws and no harm in that.

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 3825 - 17/10/2021 20:18:34    2385960

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Whats the prize for finishing top of the league under the new proposal? Does the winner still get the trophy? And do they get top seeding.

If we're going to the bother of playing provincial championships as warm up competitions would be much more of a hassle to to throw in a semifinal and final.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13774 - 17/10/2021 20:50:59    2385970

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "You've misunderstood. 1A/1B refers to old structure which only had 2 tiers of 16 followed by semi-finals and finals."
That correct, the league format happened a number of years ago and is clearly forgotten about now by some.

Even if that gap is closed a bit with such a format it would still be better than a near certain even bigger gap created between the top 5 and the rest with proposal B in place.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2588 - 17/10/2021 21:00:15    2385973

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Replying To wexico15:  "The link is there for people to take what they want from it, no matter what their viewpoint is, i wont highlight anything for either side, debate is healthy and i don't want the status quo to remain because i think its stale and broken and you don't want option B because you think it has flaws and no harm in that."
I think the one thing that everyone seems to agree on is the curren structure is not working and hasn't worked for at least the last decade if not longer. Everyone outside Ulster and the provincial councils want change. I agree with another poster that there is no silver bullet but you have to start somewhere and tweek it as you go. It will be interesting to see if option b gets through or if the provincial council can stop it which seems to be the big threat to it.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1433 - 18/10/2021 10:55:45    2386023

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The Leinster Secretary on OTB this morning..

Leinster GAA chief fights Proposal B reform - 'Provincial C'ships need to matter' | Michael Reynolds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZV146zA7Fg

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1217 - 18/10/2021 11:13:57    2386035

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "If Proposal B comes in you could have 8 Ulster teams in last 10!!"
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You could and have 6 of 8 in the Qtrs- which would certainly be entertaining, if only for the gnashing of teeth in certain quarters of the 26. One of Dublin & Kerry wouldn't make top 5 for that to happen. Which one?

More pertinently for you guys, will Roscommon be able to come 3rd in Div 2 every year and have a right run at Sam. Is there a plan!

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 18/10/2021 11:34:28    2386040

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Whats the prize for finishing top of the league under the new proposal? Does the winner still get the trophy? And do they get top seeding.

If we're going to the bother of playing provincial championships as warm up competitions would be much more of a hassle to to throw in a semifinal and final."
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Nah F*** that S*^*, Cup for the winners and seeding for champo and get on with the KO's.
The top 4 will be seeing each other a few weeks later in the champo semis in all probabality.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 18/10/2021 11:57:29    2386051

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

Nah F*** that S*^*, Cup for the winners and seeding for champo and get on with the KO's.
The top 4 will be seeing each other a few weeks later in the champo semis in all probabality."
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I would have thought Kerry would have had enough of Div 1 semis after this year?

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 18/10/2021 12:12:34    2386054

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In answer to the above... the Leinster Championship hasn't mattered in over a decade. Last year there was a great game between Louth and Offaly, the reward for which under that structure was Louth were gone at the end of the game and Offaly were gone shortly afterwards.

Next year under option B both Offaly and Louth would have a realistic chance of getting into the second stage of the championship. They'd be playing more games that mattered.

The Leinster championship is holding back football in Leinster.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 748 - 18/10/2021 12:42:16    2386059

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Replying To wexico15:  "The link is there for people to take what they want from it, no matter what their viewpoint is, i wont highlight anything for either side, debate is healthy and i don't want the status quo to remain because i think its stale and broken and you don't want option B because you think it has flaws and no harm in that."
We can agree on that wexico. As you say "debate is healthy."

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5691 - 18/10/2021 12:47:36    2386060

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

Nah F*** that S*^*, Cup for the winners and seeding for champo and get on with the KO's.
The top 4 will be seeing each other a few weeks later in the champo semis in all probabality."
Think about it timmy even off the provincess with 8 teams in each and in them 2 groups of 4 everyone gets 3 games, the top 2 teams in the province play each other in a provincial final then the winner goes on to an allireland semifinal and a final.

Then have the league championship separately, that way you still keep a hold of the old system as a secondary competition.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13774 - 18/10/2021 13:26:21    2386072

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Think about it timmy even off the provincess with 8 teams in each and in them 2 groups of 4 everyone gets 3 games, the top 2 teams in the province play each other in a provincial final then the winner goes on to an allireland semifinal and a final.

Then have the league championship separately, that way you still keep a hold of the old system as a secondary competition."
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Sure, but that's Prop A (Cromwell option) in your first para, which isn't ever gonna pass apparently.
I was referring to prop B - then League semis & final would be meaningless really. And clash with the short season idea.

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 18/10/2021 13:45:50    2386076

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Replying To timmyhogan:  ".

I would have thought Kerry would have had enough of Div 1 semis after this year?"
How do you mean?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13774 - 18/10/2021 14:13:34    2386082

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Replying To tyroneed:  "In answer to the above... the Leinster Championship hasn't mattered in over a decade. Last year there was a great game between Louth and Offaly, the reward for which under that structure was Louth were gone at the end of the game and Offaly were gone shortly afterwards.

Next year under option B both Offaly and Louth would have a realistic chance of getting into the second stage of the championship. They'd be playing more games that mattered.

The Leinster championship is holding back football in Leinster."
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Dublin's dominance of The Leinster championship is holding back football in Leinster.
Prop B is not going to solve that issue. But will reduce the importance of the Prov councils obviously.

How will the Ulster counties (delegates) vote ?

timmyhogan (UK) - Posts: 237 - 18/10/2021 14:14:47    2386084

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Replying To tyroneed:  "In answer to the above... the Leinster Championship hasn't mattered in over a decade. Last year there was a great game between Louth and Offaly, the reward for which under that structure was Louth were gone at the end of the game and Offaly were gone shortly afterwards.

Next year under option B both Offaly and Louth would have a realistic chance of getting into the second stage of the championship. They'd be playing more games that mattered.

The Leinster championship is holding back football in Leinster."
The only team the Leinster Championship hasn't mattered for is Dublin. It didn't matter to them because they were streets ahead of the rest of the teams in Leinster since about 2012/13 and the rest of the country for a good part of that too. It would be like saying the Ulster Championship doesn't matter to Down or Derry because they haven't won it for a while.

Under the backdoor system both Offaly and Louth could have gone on a good run through the qualifiers. Under Proposal B their season would have been over as runners up in Div 3 & 4 respectively.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 115 - 18/10/2021 14:45:13    2386092

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