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"I hope we wont be whinging like ye." You haven't stopped whinging on here since this topic was created over a month ago. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2812 - 10/06/2021 17:24:00 2349420 Link 2 |
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I think it would have been a lot better if Kilkenny and Westmeath switched places. It would have been more useful for both counties and better entertainment overall.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2520 - 10/06/2021 18:27:05 2349436 Link 0 |
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https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40310876.html ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 10/06/2021 18:30:21 2349437 Link 0 |
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I'll fight my corner and call out bullsh*t any day. Now if you have sometime constructive to contribute to this debate let us have it.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4500 - 10/06/2021 18:30:22 2349438 Link 3 |
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Derek McGrath was called every name under the sun by pundits and ex-players. Brendan Cummins, Jakie Tyrell, Eddie Brennan and Michael Duignan who was the worst saying that he was ruining the game. Low and behold Duignan was doing a co-commentary on a game two years later and out of his mouth at half time "They better put a sweeper back there or they will be destroyed ". The messiah Cody uses a sweeper and in reality designed the clogging we see today. I'll admit I was not a big fan of the sweeper but it put us on the map with a team that had limitation. There is no doubt the present team is built to score goals but are like a sieve at the other end. Time will tell what is the best. My own belief is it will be combination. The players are intelligent. If there is nothing on why would you give up possession by hitting it blindly. If your guy has a step on his man 60 yds. away and you can pick him out do it because you by-pass a bunch of players that could dispossess him.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3072 - 10/06/2021 19:25:54 2349446 Link 1 |
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It was decided by who finished in what position in the last year of the previous system. It was decided before anyone knew what position any of the teams finished in. Waterford, Galway and Westmeath were the 3 teams from the old 1b to end up in the new div1a. Ourselves Kilkenny and Clare were the 3 teams from the old div1a to end up in the new div1b. Was pure luck it ended up that way. It's supposed to be redrawn for next year btw or at least that was the plan when it was drawn up.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16029 - 10/06/2021 21:17:27 2349459 Link 2 |
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Whys that Trump 2020? Ye weren't in the old division 1a when the split happened. You were in div1b with Dublin, Waterford , Laois, Offaly and Carlow.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16029 - 10/06/2021 21:19:41 2349460 Link 0 |
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very good article. Well done Martin Fogarty. Donal Og wrote a similar article about 10 years ago I wonder will anybody take notice this time.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 10/06/2021 21:47:33 2349463 Link 1 |
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You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years."]Yes hurling was great back a few years ago. But that was years ago not now. Hurling has evolved and has not been as exciting last year. I do think it will evolve again but I think we might have to abolish the hand pass. Let's take Limerick for example they will try to bandpass the ball out of defense and will only strike when in the opponents 65. I'm not bashing Limerick but that's what I see happening most of the time the are playing the percentages . I do think the scores are amazing now, as for the frees teams will just have to stop fouling. Galway and Waterford did not have too many scores from frees last weekend."]Just look at the tape of 2018 All Ireland Semi Final- CK v LK, Cork did almost twice as much hand passing and were shagged in the last ten minutes as a result. Why was there no talk of abolishing the hand pass twenty years when Cork won All Irelands and the chief exponents of if."]Great point Oldtourman. Everyone was raving about how hurling is the game of the gods after the two epic semi-finals on the same weekend in 2018. They were very high-scoring games - Clare 1-30 v Galway 1-30 and Limerick 3-32 v Cork 2-31 - and plenty of those points came from frees, but I don't recall any objections at the time. The game has not changed much since then and I think that at least some of the current complaints are really just begrudgery from people who don't like how this exceptional Limerick team has consistently challenged the traditional dominance of the big 3."]Any team the challenges the big 3 ends up being hounded and having their achievements put down. We in Limerick ate getting a little bit of it at the moment just like Clare had the Colin Lynch witchunt inthe 90s after winning 2 AI, Galway had the Keady affair after winning 2 and even the great Offaly team of the 90s were seen as wild party animals that trained the wrong way and werent serious about the game. Even now Cork are seen as the saviours of the traditional game. Win 1 AI your grand but get the second and they'll put manners on you.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 899 - 10/06/2021 21:55:29 2349467 Link 2 |
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Updewell youvare spot on.listening to donal og before match last week,he couldn't bring himself to give any credit to limerick..he didn't take to kindly to the mention of cork being small and not able for the physical side of things..Anthony Daly said win one yes it's great win a second and the likes of cork and tipp want the infiltrators gone..that's why it's vital limerick and Galway stay at the top..however Waterford,Wexford,Clare and others need to get to the top also and stay there.. CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2527 - 10/06/2021 22:23:09 2349472 Link 2 |
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You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years."]Yes hurling was great back a few years ago. But that was years ago not now. Hurling has evolved and has not been as exciting last year. I do think it will evolve again but I think we might have to abolish the hand pass. Let's take Limerick for example they will try to bandpass the ball out of defense and will only strike when in the opponents 65. I'm not bashing Limerick but that's what I see happening most of the time the are playing the percentages . I do think the scores are amazing now, as for the frees teams will just have to stop fouling. Galway and Waterford did not have too many scores from frees last weekend."]Just look at the tape of 2018 All Ireland Semi Final- CK v LK, Cork did almost twice as much hand passing and were shagged in the last ten minutes as a result. Why was there no talk of abolishing the hand pass twenty years when Cork won All Irelands and the chief exponents of if."]Great point Oldtourman. Everyone was raving about how hurling is the game of the gods after the two epic semi-finals on the same weekend in 2018. They were very high-scoring games - Clare 1-30 v Galway 1-30 and Limerick 3-32 v Cork 2-31 - and plenty of those points came from frees, but I don't recall any objections at the time. The game has not changed much since then and I think that at least some of the current complaints are really just begrudgery from people who don't like how this exceptional Limerick team has consistently challenged the traditional dominance of the big 3."]Any team the challenges the big 3 ends up being hounded and having their achievements put down. We in Limerick ate getting a little bit of it at the moment just like Clare had the Colin Lynch witchunt inthe 90s after winning 2 AI, Galway had the Keady affair after winning 2 and even the great Offaly team of the 90s were seen as wild party animals that trained the wrong way and werent serious about the game. Even now Cork are seen as the saviours of the traditional game. Win 1 AI your grand but get the second and they'll put manners on you."]I for one do not begrudge Limerick. In fact they should be going for four in a row. I would tweak some things not to penalize Limericks success but to improve the game as a spectacle and control the sinister fouling. Don't talk to me about Lynch. It took two years for Tony Browne to totally recover from his injuries but guess what Tony played into his 40's. Where was Lynch ? Daly likes to tell the story of what Kieran Delahunty said to him in the tunnel but that was not the full story. Kieran has too much class and when asked why he did or does not respond. He said we lost the match. Not anti Clare either I love to see them win and enjoyed their success also.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3072 - 10/06/2021 22:24:55 2349473 Link 1 |
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Whys that Trump 2020? Ye weren't in the old division 1a when the split happened. You were in div1b with Dublin, Waterford , Laois, Offaly and Carlow."]My reasoning is that I don't think Westmeath got anything out of this year's league that can be seen as useful. I'd love to see Westmeath hammer some of the big boys on a regular basis but they're just not there yet. Kilkenny are. I only speak from a competitive standpoint nothing else.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2520 - 10/06/2021 22:46:38 2349484 Link 0 |
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You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years."]Yes hurling was great back a few years ago. But that was years ago not now. Hurling has evolved and has not been as exciting last year. I do think it will evolve again but I think we might have to abolish the hand pass. Let's take Limerick for example they will try to bandpass the ball out of defense and will only strike when in the opponents 65. I'm not bashing Limerick but that's what I see happening most of the time the are playing the percentages . I do think the scores are amazing now, as for the frees teams will just have to stop fouling. Galway and Waterford did not have too many scores from frees last weekend."]Just look at the tape of 2018 All Ireland Semi Final- CK v LK, Cork did almost twice as much hand passing and were shagged in the last ten minutes as a result. Why was there no talk of abolishing the hand pass twenty years when Cork won All Irelands and the chief exponents of if."]Great point Oldtourman. Everyone was raving about how hurling is the game of the gods after the two epic semi-finals on the same weekend in 2018. They were very high-scoring games - Clare 1-30 v Galway 1-30 and Limerick 3-32 v Cork 2-31 - and plenty of those points came from frees, but I don't recall any objections at the time. The game has not changed much since then and I think that at least some of the current complaints are really just begrudgery from people who don't like how this exceptional Limerick team has consistently challenged the traditional dominance of the big 3."]Any team the challenges the big 3 ends up being hounded and having their achievements put down. We in Limerick ate getting a little bit of it at the moment just like Clare had the Colin Lynch witchunt inthe 90s after winning 2 AI, Galway had the Keady affair after winning 2 and even the great Offaly team of the 90s were seen as wild party animals that trained the wrong way and werent serious about the game. Even now Cork are seen as the saviours of the traditional game. Win 1 AI your grand but get the second and they'll put manners on you."]"Cork seen as saviours of the traditional game?" Through playing a tedious short passing possession game? Whoever is saying they are the saviours of the traditional game is definitely smoking something!!
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2024 - 10/06/2021 22:55:57 2349486 Link 0 |
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Replying To ZUL10: "https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40310876.html ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 10/06/2021 23:02:10 2349487 Link 1 |
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I was speaking with a KK acquaintance recently and he told me that he wasn't that interested in how the hurling was going at the moment.He said that you need KK v Tipp for a proper hurling final and do you know something he believes that.Hurling is only good when the status quo prevails it seems with the top 3 exponents. ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 10/06/2021 23:17:18 2349491 Link 2 |
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You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years."]Yes hurling was great back a few years ago. But that was years ago not now. Hurling has evolved and has not been as exciting last year. I do think it will evolve again but I think we might have to abolish the hand pass. Let's take Limerick for example they will try to bandpass the ball out of defense and will only strike when in the opponents 65. I'm not bashing Limerick but that's what I see happening most of the time the are playing the percentages . I do think the scores are amazing now, as for the frees teams will just have to stop fouling. Galway and Waterford did not have too many scores from frees last weekend."]Just look at the tape of 2018 All Ireland Semi Final- CK v LK, Cork did almost twice as much hand passing and were shagged in the last ten minutes as a result. Why was there no talk of abolishing the hand pass twenty years when Cork won All Irelands and the chief exponents of if."]Great point Oldtourman. Everyone was raving about how hurling is the game of the gods after the two epic semi-finals on the same weekend in 2018. They were very high-scoring games - Clare 1-30 v Galway 1-30 and Limerick 3-32 v Cork 2-31 - and plenty of those points came from frees, but I don't recall any objections at the time. The game has not changed much since then and I think that at least some of the current complaints are really just begrudgery from people who don't like how this exceptional Limerick team has consistently challenged the traditional dominance of the big 3."]Any team the challenges the big 3 ends up being hounded and having their achievements put down. We in Limerick ate getting a little bit of it at the moment just like Clare had the Colin Lynch witchunt inthe 90s after winning 2 AI, Galway had the Keady affair after winning 2 and even the great Offaly team of the 90s were seen as wild party animals that trained the wrong way and werent serious about the game. Even now Cork are seen as the saviours of the traditional game. Win 1 AI your grand but get the second and they'll put manners on you."]"Cork seen as saviours of the traditional game?" Through playing a tedious short passing possession game? Whoever is saying they are the saviours of the traditional game is definitely smoking something!!"]The narrative with Cork is they are scoring goals and that's what hurling needs regardless of the method used to move the ball which I agree is slow and monotonous. Galway and Waterford play more traditional than Cork, Limerick somewhere in between and for me Tipp and Kilkenny are trying to change their style but I don't think they really believe in what they are doing and that when the pressure comes on they will revert to their normal game. Wexford are playing Davy hurling while I like Antrim and their improvements but Clare seem to have 1 style ,1 tactic- give it to Kelly.
updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 899 - 10/06/2021 23:47:44 2349500 Link 0 |
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Great article by Martin Fogarty. More fouling leading to free taking competitions. All this use of the spare arm fouling is coached. The throwing of the ball is coached and practised by all the top teams. The men in Black have to persevere and blow for frees every minute until player behaviour changes. midfield9 (Westmeath) - Posts: 102 - 11/06/2021 01:02:34 2349506 Link 0 |
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However a lot of people want to make ball heavier or bigger rims so you cannot score from 70 meters (helping to modernise you here by converting : )) which would end up with the sweeper and backed middle been a far more effective way of stopping scores from happening. Teams that have the players who can take scores from further out have a big advantage right now as the only way to defend against it is push up on the players which leaves you open at the back. What makes Limerick so good is that they can do both, score from outside and then if you push up carry the ball in at pace. Wexford are not blessed with players who can score from distance so it becomes far to easy to defend against them. The problem I have with the possession game is, like football, the art of shooting on sight is being coached out of players. It drives me nuts to see players in the red zone and having the time and space to kick not doing it because they are afraid they will miss and turnover the ball. Even with Dublin where the ability is clearly there it happens - Connolly was brilliant at it but would he get the same licence now, Mannion to a degree does it still. I look at Wexford now and you know that if someone takes a shot from 60-70ms and misses, they will be in trouble after the game with the management. All the talk about changing the ball in Hurling is really rubbish, what is missing is better defending not from backs but from the forwards. What makes Dublin so good is their ability to play any type of game. If a team wants to put 14 men behind the ball they have the players to hold onto the ball and wait until the hole appears, is it great football to watch them passing the ball to each other for 3mins? No, is it their fault, No. Time to stop blaming the way the game is on referees, balls, hurls or whatever and start blaming the skills and tactics that players are been coached. However a lot of people on here only care when they are not winning - something you have seen from a lot of people in one county in particular in football as well! zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1977 - 11/06/2021 02:02:45 2349508 Link 0 |
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Making the ball heavier will make teams crowd the defense then there will even be more fouling in the opposition's half. It will become like football. I think nothing is wrong with the ball, the thing that gets me is that it had paid teams to foul. Take last year the team that won the all Ireland conceeded a lot more frees on average than any other team. We can't keep letting this happen! In my view fouls around midfield and back are tactical to slow down the transition from defence to attack The way to stop this fouling is to be harsher with cards, and maybe even look at awarding 2 points for a free this might reduce the amount of fouls committed. It cannot pay to foul which it has done in the past!
ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 11/06/2021 09:09:53 2349524 Link 1 |
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They invented "playing on the edge" sure:)
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16029 - 11/06/2021 10:03:36 2349530 Link 0 |