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New manager should be in place for the club championship,
Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 65 - 30/05/2024 13:29:49
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Replying To WhyTheLongFace: " Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "[quote=WhyTheLongFace: "And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
true , but at the end of the day Colm and his ever changing coaching team have the lowest win rate of all previous mangers (not includes the tailteann cup but league..leinster and championship ) , so thats a indication of something wrong right ? I go by the maths because the maths don't lie!
nobody in meath thinks the good times are just around the corner , nobody in meath thinks we will get a manager with a magic wand and its all happy days again .. but we do see we can do a bit better whats currently on offer by the management set up." Here was Michael Murphy's thoughts on the matter on the second captains podcast Talking about COR and is he fit to be an inter county manager "I for the life of me couldn't (identify a pattern of play) watching Meath, still to this day I don't know what they're doing. Even the Tailteann Cup final against Down was really really good but it was just based on unbelievable individual pieces of play. It was really strong, their midfield kicking excellent scores from distance, from all areas but there was no pattern to anything that was going on" It was then put to Paul Flynn. "I totally agree with what Murph said. And there's good players there. I really believe some of these players can grow into being a really solid team that should be winning that game at the weekend. But with no defensive clarity which they currently have and the decision making and skill execution up front for me screams no structure and they're not sure whether they should shoot. So the execution looks really bad because they're not working it to a position for a pattern of play they've worked on in training. So it all goes back to me to not having any type of gameplan or not having clarity on what the game plan is. You can look really bad as a player where there's not joined up thinking from defense to attack if there's not clarity on what everybody is trying to achieve. It has to fall at the manager, that is their role." That is a very damning report from two outsiders with no horse in the race"
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 30/05/2024 13:57:51
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Replying To nobull456: " Replying To WhyTheLongFace: "[quote=LeitrimRoyal99: "[quote=WhyTheLongFace: "And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
true , but at the end of the day Colm and his ever changing coaching team have the lowest win rate of all previous mangers (not includes the tailteann cup but league..leinster and championship ) , so thats a indication of something wrong right ? I go by the maths because the maths don't lie!
nobody in meath thinks the good times are just around the corner , nobody in meath thinks we will get a manager with a magic wand and its all happy days again .. but we do see we can do a bit better whats currently on offer by the management set up." Here was Michael Murphy's thoughts on the matter on the second captains podcast Talking about COR and is he fit to be an inter county manager "I for the life of me couldn't (identify a pattern of play) watching Meath, still to this day I don't know what they're doing. Even the Tailteann Cup final against Down was really really good but it was just based on unbelievable individual pieces of play. It was really strong, their midfield kicking excellent scores from distance, from all areas but there was no pattern to anything that was going on" It was then put to Paul Flynn. "I totally agree with what Murph said. And there's good players there. I really believe some of these players can grow into being a really solid team that should be winning that game at the weekend. But with no defensive clarity which they currently have and the decision making and skill execution up front for me screams no structure and they're not sure whether they should shoot. So the execution looks really bad because they're not working it to a position for a pattern of play they've worked on in training. So it all goes back to me to not having any type of gameplan or not having clarity on what the game plan is. You can look really bad as a player where there's not joined up thinking from defense to attack if there's not clarity on what everybody is trying to achieve. It has to fall at the manager, that is their role." That is a very damning report from two outsiders with no horse in the race"
I'm dreading this Kerry game on Saturday
meath1987 (Meath) - Posts: 134 - 30/05/2024 14:36:43
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Not at all looking forward to this weekend. Gave it 50/50 against Louth, not surprised to lose it, but did not see a 10 point pasting coming. Last time we qualified for the group stages, we lost all 3 games by 9. This is a far weaker group than that one.
Unfortunate thing is that even if we lose, we will still have a chance to qualify as I'd expect Louth to beat Monaghan.
Very depressing times!!!
moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 485 - 30/05/2024 15:37:24
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I think many posters are dancing around the same matters here. Like I mentioned after the Louth game:
"accept poor coaching, expect poor results"
I have no issue with COR as a manager. He has the football status, he has knowledge of Meath Club scene but that's about as far as it goes. What is severely lacking with management is any sort of modern coaching, tactics or semblance of a plan or system. This is what kills us.
There should be no reason or excuse as to why Meath don't have a backroom team of elite trainers and coaches headed by COR.
We are where we are in the seedings - 16th. A low grade Division 2 team and victors of last seasons second tier competition.
Meath should be aiming at a minimum to be in or about 8th, as such, a top Divison 2/bottom Division 1 team. Why? Player and Club population, player status (Sigerson and Underage Winners). We have much more going for us than a number of other counties - fact.
I really do not buy the excuse of not having the players. There are some talented individuals there who are more than capable. Perhaps not household names but thats because they are not getting to express themselves. Realistically how many teams outside of the top 4 teams in the country have have more than 3-5 players that are of a premier class which roll off the tongue?
I have watched enough of Meath this season alone to be satisfied that I haven't a clue of a system being followed or implemented from match to match. It is totally chaotic. I watched as we won games we should have lost (Louth and Kildare in League) and threw games we should have won (Fermanagh - draw, Cavan - draw and even the Cork loss). Championship has been the same where we were shambolic against Longford, unravelled against Dublin and headless against Louth. This is a pattern and its not acceptable.
You give players a specific role and job and drill it into them as part of a style of team play and you run with it. Believe the system and have the squad buy into it. Keep to the plan and the rest will fall into place. There will be defeats and near misses in the heat of 75 odd minutes but that happens. However, there is no excuse for not setting up right.
I am positive that a season under the guidance of a skilled coaching ticket could easily swing this current squad from 16th to 8th. I am certain of it.
But the next trick is having to stay there at that level for 3-4 seasons before you get any sort or right to go up to the next level - a top 5 where you are in mix for Sam.
Forget about management and selectors. Tactical coaching and a system which sets the players up to do their jobs as footballers is whats required. It's that simple but we are way way way way off that presently and it should be the primary focus come July to gather personnel to implement it.
Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 768 - 30/05/2024 22:11:28
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Replying To Royalio11: "I think many posters are dancing around the same matters here. Like I mentioned after the Louth game:
"accept poor coaching, expect poor results"
I have no issue with COR as a manager. He has the football status, he has knowledge of Meath Club scene but that's about as far as it goes. What is severely lacking with management is any sort of modern coaching, tactics or semblance of a plan or system. This is what kills us.
There should be no reason or excuse as to why Meath don't have a backroom team of elite trainers and coaches headed by COR.
We are where we are in the seedings - 16th. A low grade Division 2 team and victors of last seasons second tier competition.
Meath should be aiming at a minimum to be in or about 8th, as such, a top Divison 2/bottom Division 1 team. Why? Player and Club population, player status (Sigerson and Underage Winners). We have much more going for us than a number of other counties - fact.
I really do not buy the excuse of not having the players. There are some talented individuals there who are more than capable. Perhaps not household names but thats because they are not getting to express themselves. Realistically how many teams outside of the top 4 teams in the country have have more than 3-5 players that are of a premier class which roll off the tongue?
I have watched enough of Meath this season alone to be satisfied that I haven't a clue of a system being followed or implemented from match to match. It is totally chaotic. I watched as we won games we should have lost (Louth and Kildare in League) and threw games we should have won (Fermanagh - draw, Cavan - draw and even the Cork loss). Championship has been the same where we were shambolic against Longford, unravelled against Dublin and headless against Louth. This is a pattern and its not acceptable.
You give players a specific role and job and drill it into them as part of a style of team play and you run with it. Believe the system and have the squad buy into it. Keep to the plan and the rest will fall into place. There will be defeats and near misses in the heat of 75 odd minutes but that happens. However, there is no excuse for not setting up right.
I am positive that a season under the guidance of a skilled coaching ticket could easily swing this current squad from 16th to 8th. I am certain of it.
But the next trick is having to stay there at that level for 3-4 seasons before you get any sort or right to go up to the next level - a top 5 where you are in mix for Sam.
Forget about management and selectors. Tactical coaching and a system which sets the players up to do their jobs as footballers is whats required. It's that simple but we are way way way way off that presently and it should be the primary focus come July to gather personnel to implement it." Well said!!
Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 515 - 31/05/2024 09:30:06
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Lads there's lots of great points being made by people here and generally what we all want to see is a competitive team on the pitch. And I'm not absolving Colm of blame here but since MOD and through the Andy Mac years Meath haven't had a discernible style of play, it's a whole hybrid of hit and hope something sticks and nothing really has. I do agree with plenty of you re coaching and set up, but looked over the last 10 years we've had plenty of good coaches involved. Nally, John Rafferty and Paul Garrigan,who many didn't rate last year but a system takes 2 years to bed in fully. Are people willing to allow that time, to allow mistakes to happen and let a system fully bed in. Honestly from some attitudes I see here and at games they're not willing too. Everyone wants it here and now and I don't think that's possible. Look at Louth it took til year 3 for Harte system to fully work, but was perfected at lower levels before last year. Brennan has tweaked it slightly but not thrown out the baby worth the bath water. I suppose that comes back to proper planning and structures from underage upwards too but a lot of Meath folk aren't willing to accept that pain for long term gain.
Also a lot of those guys who came back or folks called for to be reintroduced haven't really added much to the team and or panel. Hogan, conlon, o'sullivan haven't really added to what's there.
And as someone said yesterday, scoring is still a huge issue, it dates back to Andy's time (not taking shots at him here) but we don't have consistent players who get you 3-5 scores every game which you need, we don't have a half back line chipping in 3-4 scores and midfield doing likewise and that's going to hold us back even more. 18-20 scores is a must in every game these days and until our scoring rate increases were not up to much. It's a bit like money ball… who's getting you 2-4 scores every day, how do they get their scores, when do they get them and how can we get the ball to them to do that.
I think personally Colms done after this campaign but I don't see a manger within Meath who can really bring things on unless Robbie Brennan wants the gig. I think he's the only person who could get the requisite coaching set up in place given his own pedigree, however we thought the same with Andy and it worked for one of his 6 years so Brennan or any top quality set up is no guarantee of improvement.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 31/05/2024 10:14:41
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Heard this morning apparently Michael Murphy and Sean Ryan are going to be starting and dropping back as two sweepers. To me, sounds like we're going out with the intention to keep the score as low as possible and forget about the attacking aspect which maybe people think is a good idea? I personally think it's madness starting 2 backs in the forward line to just drop back all game if it's true. Why can't we go out and play to a system and try be competitive rather than accepting defeat before we even go out and just trying not to be hammered.
SillySimonsOpinion (Meath) - Posts: 64 - 31/05/2024 12:00:22
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Replying To brian: "Lads there's lots of great points being made by people here and generally what we all want to see is a competitive team on the pitch. And I'm not absolving Colm of blame here but since MOD and through the Andy Mac years Meath haven't had a discernible style of play, it's a whole hybrid of hit and hope something sticks and nothing really has. I do agree with plenty of you re coaching and set up, but looked over the last 10 years we've had plenty of good coaches involved. Nally, John Rafferty and Paul Garrigan,who many didn't rate last year but a system takes 2 years to bed in fully. Are people willing to allow that time, to allow mistakes to happen and let a system fully bed in. Honestly from some attitudes I see here and at games they're not willing too. Everyone wants it here and now and I don't think that's possible. Look at Louth it took til year 3 for Harte system to fully work, but was perfected at lower levels before last year. Brennan has tweaked it slightly but not thrown out the baby worth the bath water. I suppose that comes back to proper planning and structures from underage upwards too but a lot of Meath folk aren't willing to accept that pain for long term gain.
Also a lot of those guys who came back or folks called for to be reintroduced haven't really added much to the team and or panel. Hogan, conlon, o'sullivan haven't really added to what's there.
And as someone said yesterday, scoring is still a huge issue, it dates back to Andy's time (not taking shots at him here) but we don't have consistent players who get you 3-5 scores every game which you need, we don't have a half back line chipping in 3-4 scores and midfield doing likewise and that's going to hold us back even more. 18-20 scores is a must in every game these days and until our scoring rate increases were not up to much. It's a bit like money ball… who's getting you 2-4 scores every day, how do they get their scores, when do they get them and how can we get the ball to them to do that.
I think personally Colms done after this campaign but I don't see a manger within Meath who can really bring things on unless Robbie Brennan wants the gig. I think he's the only person who could get the requisite coaching set up in place given his own pedigree, however we thought the same with Andy and it worked for one of his 6 years so Brennan or any top quality set up is no guarantee of improvement." Brian, that is absolute rubbish. How can you say Andy didn't have a style of play? It was evident, hard runners coming through the middle, hence at the time our half back line was the strongest. It was a complete running game (which had its cons) but at least we had a style. We created so many goal chances from that, something which has completely evaporated under this management team.
People allowed O'Rourke time after a dismal end to the league last year and an embarrassing performance against Offaly, but it is the same theme through all games, there is no plan on how to attack and no plan on how to defend. The nonsense about structures from underage up is ridiculous, Donegal's underage is in dissaray, that doesn't currently effect there senior team. Same thing with Waterford hurlers, their minors and u21's have won one game in the last 3 years, but Davy Fitz who clearly has a plan, had the senior team performing pretty well this year.
You're disrespect to Andy is laughable, in two of his years we got beaten by a point to a Tyrone team that reached the All Ireland Final, got beaten by a point to a pretty good Donegal team and gave Dublin a hell of a game in 2021, so I think it worked for more than 'one' of his years.
contributingtoamelee (Meath) - Posts: 55 - 31/05/2024 13:30:56
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For anyone on the border with Louth, this is their lowest point as a Meath supporter. For me, it all started to go downhill when we let Westmeath come back from +9 points to beat us. The rot started then, under MOD's tenure. IMO and I said it at the time, it was the worst day in Meath footballing history.
The AndyMac brigade will defend him blindly, I'll admit that I was glad to see him go. However, as I had high hope for COR and the impressive backroom team, I must also admit that the only difference between COR and Andy, is that COR can contain himself on the sideline and compose himself in front of a microphone. They both persisted with bringing back old players, untested at crucial times in respective campaigns.
Player quality is an issue, but more and more player motivation is becoming concerning. I agree with the many posts here; we need a manager from the top 3 or 4, with an independent view of all players in the county and someone that create excitement and provide re-assurance that a modern approach to playing the game will be the mantra.
Finally, (and I don't know how to fund it), but there needs to be more incentive for players to commit to the senior panel. Unaware of the funding ability of the CoBoard, we probably cannot match Dublin, but something needs to be done to entice those qulity players that are turning to rugby and soccer due to the perks.
Tweety (Meath) - Posts: 31 - 31/05/2024 14:24:36
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Replying To SillySimonsOpinion: "Heard this morning apparently Michael Murphy and Sean Ryan are going to be starting and dropping back as two sweepers. To me, sounds like we're going out with the intention to keep the score as low as possible and forget about the attacking aspect which maybe people think is a good idea? I personally think it's madness starting 2 backs in the forward line to just drop back all game if it's true. Why can't we go out and play to a system and try be competitive rather than accepting defeat before we even go out and just trying not to be hammered." This may sound harsh as they are both good players and both at least managed to kick a point each in poor performances vs Louth, but would that be any different to using Caulfield and Hickey as wing forwards? Neither are natural playmakers, Hickey has played as a back throughout his life and Caulfield is not a ball player in the true sense but more of an industrious runner. If you are going to limit your attacking options by playing work horses where there could be playmakers you ay as well have them in defined defensive positions and try to build from there. With the lack of attacking clue we showed against Louth it would have been better to just clog up space defensively and try to avoid getting cut open for 3 goals.
TigerKing (Meath) - Posts: 41 - 31/05/2024 14:34:05
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Same starting 15 v Kerry that Louth played off the pitch last week, I don't even know what to say.
LowerHogan (Meath) - Posts: 45 - 31/05/2024 15:11:32
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Same team as named for Louth game named for Kerry game - Will be amazed if that is the team that starts! I am very surprised Daithi McGowan isn't starting - and that he got no game time last day out!
I think cutting out ball to the two Cliffords is critical but easier said than done! David has been relatively quiet in this championship so far I hope he doesn't choose this game to hit the levels we all know he can!!
I have been overly optimistic about our chances all year but I have to be honest, I think we could be in for a very long day!!
That said - a win against Monaghan would see us into the next stage - so all not lost yet! A good performance is a must!!
Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 515 - 31/05/2024 16:28:50
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It simply can't be the same team that started against Louth starting this week. Looking at the bench you could make arguments for Brennan, Gray, McGowan, Kinsella, O'Connor and Morris starting. If Gray and Morris are anyway near fit they have to play. One for athleticism at midfield and other for some sort of a natural scorer. Kerry's midfield are big and I think Jones needs to be in half forward line for his running, he'll get cleaned out at midfield by a smart pairing like Kerry's if he's there. I think COR sees O'Connor as a pacy sub/"finisher" to bring in. They can forget about "finishers" this week as well, we'll be bet out the gate if we don't start fast.
NYRoyal (USA) - Posts: 31 - 31/05/2024 20:19:53
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Replying To SillySimonsOpinion: "Heard this morning apparently Michael Murphy and Sean Ryan are going to be starting and dropping back as two sweepers. To me, sounds like we're going out with the intention to keep the score as low as possible and forget about the attacking aspect which maybe people think is a good idea? I personally think it's madness starting 2 backs in the forward line to just drop back all game if it's true. Why can't we go out and play to a system and try be competitive rather than accepting defeat before we even go out and just trying not to be hammered." I understand that there needs to be changes after last week but Michael Murphy and Sean Ryan as sweepers seems very random. I guess management are just trying anything at this stage. Sean Ryan didn't play in the league at all and from what I heard he barely played in the challenge matches.
Sheridan2010louth (Meath) - Posts: 184 - 31/05/2024 20:22:33
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Really sad to hear Antony Moyles comments today but he is right . Puke football comment from Mr.Brolly comes to mind and poor attendances prove a point that it's not attractive
Lonetone (Meath) - Posts: 16 - 31/05/2024 23:12:59
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Very hard pill to swallow last week, was really hopeful of beating Louth however after seen the team I did become concerned, nothing against the lads but COS hasn't played all year and Ronan R only back from travelling. two great servants to the county but in my opinion both miles off the pace.
Am expecting changes before throw in tomorrow.
COR kicked a very bad wide starting the lads in my opinion but my opinions are my own.
thelutch (Meath) - Posts: 1073 - 01/06/2024 15:52:47
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Cork with a great win today , goals wins games and Cork got 3 today , if we are going to win tomorrow we need goals and plenty of them but unfortunately we haven't been scoring goals of late , who needs a top coaching team if we can score goals !
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 01/06/2024 16:34:55
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Just watching Cork beat Donegal today and be somewhat competitive against Kerry in Munster highlights how poorly coached we are.
We arguably have better players that Cork, we've beaten them the last 2/3 times, but they have put in some really good performances over the last few years when it's mattered.
Why can't we? Instead we've names the same team tomorrow as the one that got absolutely hammered by Louth. Hopefully there are some changes.
But we don't threaten goals like Cork did today. We scored 3 goals in 8 league matches, outside of the Donegal game where we found the net after about 15 seconds, we created virtually nothing.
We average about 10 points a game I'd say if I had to guess, nowhere near good enough. Just disheartening to watch Cork show up like that against Donegal.
hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 254 - 01/06/2024 17:03:34
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It is time for the championship to go back to a straight knockout competition, no more back doors or round Robins. Start the league later, maybe the start of March. Finish it in May. Start the championship in late June. straight knock out 16 teams out in the first weekend, then 2 week break with a window for replays on the next weekend, and potentially 2nd replays on a Wednesday evening. Scrap the Tailteann Cup, it's another folly. League and championship need to return to being treated as 2 stand alone competition's.
Mayo beat Roscommon yesterday, and could have to beat them a third time to win an All Ireland, what a joke.
Move the club finals back to St Patrick's day.
Bring the jeopardy back. You lose= bye bye.
Ban the mass defence. Fair play to Louth, they used it to great effect against Dublin, but dropping all your players back into your own half is a hard watch, and a hard sell. Negative football from so called modern coaches is a disgrace and is ruining the game as a spectacle.
Ban the mass defence
Ban the advanced mark.
Make football Great again!!!!!
atta (Meath) - Posts: 704 - 02/06/2024 10:34:27
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