Meath Forum

Sam Maguire Cup

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Really frustrating listening to COR's comments after the game. He talks about the inexperience of the team and that we need to be patient. But he doesn't talk about a plan beyond the lads becoming more experienced. They won't magically improve just from experience alone, they need a clear modern playing system to follow. If we'd lost a tight game against Louth because we didn't have the experience to close it out, that's one thing. But we didn't lose that match by 10 points solely because of inexperience.
He talks about how there's not "a ready-made supply of David Cliffords, Sean O'Sheas or Con O'Callagahans". That's true but at least two of those named players are on course to be two of the greatest players of all time. Most counties don't have that supply. "We don't have the players" is an easy excuse. As if counties should just wait around for a golden generation to land in every now and again. If any potentially top-level player broke into the Meath team now they wouldn't look like a top-level player because they would not be playing in a top-level system. If we had a clear system in place and were still a mid table Div 2 team then fine, we can then moan about not having the players. But we don't. The coaching team haven't earned the right to blame it on the player pool.

MeathAbroad (Meath) - Posts: 101 - 03/06/2024 09:15:23    2549092

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Replying To CMAN1570:  "We play conor gray and give them the short kickout all day? That's one of the biggest things to take from today?"
100%. Also, twice or three times he went in on the edge of the square and nothing went into him whatsoever. What was the point in playing him? Then he's hauled off for Jones at half time.

Selwyn (Meath) - Posts: 387 - 03/06/2024 09:26:20    2549097

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Replying To atta:  "Second Tier teams can be competitive in the national leagues. Just don't play the League in the depths of winter, play it in late spring/ early summer. Heck even play it alongside championship ie Championship every 3 weeks, with a league the week after championship. You could run the leagues until July. Imagine a sunny July evening, and the league finals taking place in Croke park. Tailteann Cup is too lopsided. Teams like ourselves last year are just too strong for the likes of Waterford and Carlow. Who will win the tailteann this year, probably Kildare or Down.
The all Ireland should go to an open draw, forget what the Ulster counties think, majority rules.
All Ireland championship should be a five round competition
32
16
8
4
2
Play it every 3 weeks through the summer.
The week after Championship players should be available for their club, then back in for 2 weeks with the county side.
Playing Gaelic football in January, February and even March is madness. You will get more bums on seats in milder weather, and in you are not competing directly with premier league soccer on the telly, or international, and provincial rugby. How Club and county cant be run together with everything finished by the end of October baffles me. Then the season would be truly over and club lads and county lads could pursue other interests, and encouraged to travel, Yhe fact that county players are nearly training 12 months of the year is a sin in my opinion."
Sure the all Ireland championship is as as lopsided as the Tailteann, not a hope anyone other then Dublin or kerry win it, and they will dish out serious hammerings along the way. Just like the tailteann teams like them are just too strong for the bottom half of that championship

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 03/06/2024 09:32:47    2549099

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Replying To Unitedroyal:  "If we take any positives from todays match I look at the younger leaders caufield never stopped the fight, frayne kicked a lovely a long range score and kept going to the very end, finally shoutout to young o halloran big task for a 19 year old to mark one of the best in Ireland and do a good job the only point paudie scored was when he wasn't actually on him. Small wins out of a poor showing"
Agree with this, even against Louth i thought Caulfield was probably our best player on that day. Frayne kicking points off both feet yesterday was encouraging. He's been our best forward all year. O'Halloran was good and is going to be some player once he gets bigger. I thought Billy Hogan was good too and very composed on his kickouts.

These 4 lads and Conor Gray who probably struggled a bit yesterday but im sure will be fine are all only 21 years old. We have got young leaders in this team but all year we seem to be lacking any leadership from the more experienced panel members which is hugely worrying.

Sheridan2010louth (Meath) - Posts: 184 - 03/06/2024 09:33:48    2549100

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Replying To Ed2010:  "Cop yourself on. We have a better talent pool than louth. Fact. Just need a good coach"
Do we ?

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 938 - 03/06/2024 09:36:02    2549101

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Cian Ward nails that shambles of a performance yesterday and the last two years perfectly on the Smaller Fish podcast. Absolutely nothing positive to take from it and says he will be shocked if O'Rourke is there next year. The local media would want to take a leaf out of his book, instead of tip toeing around the the whole mess and just call it as they see it. Not once have any of them call out the management on the teams poor performances. They just parrot O'Rourkes excuses about young players etc etc

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 998 - 03/06/2024 10:22:39    2549115

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Replying To Unitedroyal:  "If we take any positives from todays match I look at the younger leaders caufield never stopped the fight, frayne kicked a lovely a long range score and kept going to the very end, finally shoutout to young o halloran big task for a 19 year old to mark one of the best in Ireland and do a good job the only point paudie scored was when he wasn't actually on him. Small wins out of a poor showing"
I'd agree with alot of this but why didn't we bring in more players from U20 group. They clearly way better than most that already there. Tyrone brought in five and were playing in final while we were out earlier in semi and they already have a much stronger senior panel than us anyway. Murphy as a scoring forward should definitely be straight in. Can O'Rourke not see 90% of his players cannot shoot accurately? The skill level of some of our players is so off county standard, it's unbelievable. The mix up with Hickey and Jones for a short hand passed summed that up while COS miss from 30 yards from a mark with wind on his back also illustrated the point. These are players who are our most experienced and that tells a tale. Actually some of the endeavour was quite good but more often than not the final pass or shot messed up most of the good work. Kerry were also noticeably stronger than us. Looking at Clifford throwing off Adam O'Neill our full back an example. Meath used to pride themselves at their strong men at the back. O'Rourke talks about this team as if they are boys, but they are men and they need to be stronger physically and mentally!

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 594 - 03/06/2024 10:31:49    2549119

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Replying To Ed2010:  "Cop yourself on. We have a better talent pool than louth. Fact. Just need a good coach"
This! This right here, ladies and gentlemen!

nothing against you personally Ed, but this sentiment and mindset is one of the key reasons we are in the mire.

We do NOT have a better talent pool than anyone at the moment and havent in a generation. Minors and U16s are not leading indicators, arguably U20's arent either.

Meath supporters cut in this shape remind me of Comical Ali in an interview in Baghdad in 2003, stating "we have the Americans on the run" whilst hundreds of American tanks rolled past him.

Youre in denial.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 03/06/2024 11:07:43    2549127

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Just to add my two cents on Colm.

He owes nothing to Meath GAA and people will always respect him as a player and as a coach. Thats a given. He played long before my time but we'd be also-rans without the legendary team of the 80s. They started it all. Legends. He will always be a legend.

Just my opinion, but he isnt the man. Ive waited a few years now to say it, and this feels like the right time. Look he hasnt a readymade panel ripe for success, we all know that - but from day one his attitude has been very much absolvent on himself and his management. Irregardless of his tactics, which are questionable, when you read between the lines you can see that he wants to put blame on players for all shortcomings and throw out banalities that arent constructive to the media about inexperience, talent, etc. I just cant see how a large group of young men can buy into that. Im not even sure why he took on the job. People, including myself, were hard on Andy Mac, but jesus did he want to be there and you could tell in 2019/2020 when he had built up a good culture that everybody wanted to be there and wanted to perform for him. You can see these things on the field. Now, I just see people going through the motions. They're half committed and half distracted.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 03/06/2024 11:20:43    2549130

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Replying To MeathAbroad:  "Really frustrating listening to COR's comments after the game. He talks about the inexperience of the team and that we need to be patient. But he doesn't talk about a plan beyond the lads becoming more experienced. They won't magically improve just from experience alone, they need a clear modern playing system to follow. If we'd lost a tight game against Louth because we didn't have the experience to close it out, that's one thing. But we didn't lose that match by 10 points solely because of inexperience.
He talks about how there's not "a ready-made supply of David Cliffords, Sean O'Sheas or Con O'Callagahans". That's true but at least two of those named players are on course to be two of the greatest players of all time. Most counties don't have that supply. "We don't have the players" is an easy excuse. As if counties should just wait around for a golden generation to land in every now and again. If any potentially top-level player broke into the Meath team now they wouldn't look like a top-level player because they would not be playing in a top-level system. If we had a clear system in place and were still a mid table Div 2 team then fine, we can then moan about not having the players. But we don't. The coaching team haven't earned the right to blame it on the player pool."
i have some sympathy with COR . In fairness to him , While he can talk about Systems of Play , and Patterns and Roles, and Lads fully committing & understanding what their Job is ...talking about it "afterwards" is black to White to fully understanding what is involved in putting these things into place . COR was doomed from day 1 , because he gave his view/outlook on what he saw as the Important stuff , when he decided that he didn't Need to Appoint a Coach as a Priority , . If he knew and understood fully how the game At County Level has moved & changed since he was involved , then he would have known , that was the starting point . Since then he is trying to play catch up. And this is where i have more sympathy for him. Because he is doing "the catch-up" while also trying to look as though he isn't.
He has got to hope that he and the lads can get a result against Monaghan and then string another Good game after that. This is his best case Scenario
He needs to try & shore up his credibility somehow, so that is an added stress, and i feel that the dressing room probably know that its damage limitations for everyone involved now till we exit .
The fault does not lie with COR , it lies with those charged with Putting the long term Plan in place , and most importantly knowing who is the right person for each job in the System . The CB , if they don't have the expertise to understand what is going wrong , and how to stop it, just need to be open minded enough to talk to serious people in a few good counties, and they will tell them their own experiences of how to get it right, and what pitfalls to try & avoid.
I can say one thing for certain. Messiahs , and Quick Fix Solutions, and Wishful thinking ...rarely cuts the mustard in a crisis

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 03/06/2024 13:15:06    2549157

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Replying To Unitedroyal:  "If we take any positives from todays match I look at the younger leaders caufield never stopped the fight, frayne kicked a lovely a long range score and kept going to the very end, finally shoutout to young o halloran big task for a 19 year old to mark one of the best in Ireland and do a good job the only point paudie scored was when he wasn't actually on him. Small wins out of a poor showing"
Waffle

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1012 - 03/06/2024 13:23:47    2549159

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "i have some sympathy with COR . In fairness to him , While he can talk about Systems of Play , and Patterns and Roles, and Lads fully committing & understanding what their Job is ...talking about it "afterwards" is black to White to fully understanding what is involved in putting these things into place . COR was doomed from day 1 , because he gave his view/outlook on what he saw as the Important stuff , when he decided that he didn't Need to Appoint a Coach as a Priority , . If he knew and understood fully how the game At County Level has moved & changed since he was involved , then he would have known , that was the starting point . Since then he is trying to play catch up. And this is where i have more sympathy for him. Because he is doing "the catch-up" while also trying to look as though he isn't.
He has got to hope that he and the lads can get a result against Monaghan and then string another Good game after that. This is his best case Scenario
He needs to try & shore up his credibility somehow, so that is an added stress, and i feel that the dressing room probably know that its damage limitations for everyone involved now till we exit .
The fault does not lie with COR , it lies with those charged with Putting the long term Plan in place , and most importantly knowing who is the right person for each job in the System . The CB , if they don't have the expertise to understand what is going wrong , and how to stop it, just need to be open minded enough to talk to serious people in a few good counties, and they will tell them their own experiences of how to get it right, and what pitfalls to try & avoid.
I can say one thing for certain. Messiahs , and Quick Fix Solutions, and Wishful thinking ...rarely cuts the mustard in a crisis"
I was a bit starstruck to meet Colm 0'Rourke in Dungany a few weeks ago. Was there for LGFA Feile. Seemingly himself, Séan Boylan and Trevor Giles were there for training that morning. Does any other county have such a selection of true greats on the sideline? Is it possibly a bit intimidating if you're new into that Meath squad, or even there a while? Are two if them out of touch with Gaelic Football in 2024? Compare that to Louth's new, eager to succeed, manager, himself the GAA Development Executive of one of the top GAA colleges and very up to date with the modern game and on a similar wavelength with young players. Do Meath really need a new manager with a good track record next or is an emerging young manager who can get the best out of the squad, including bringing on new talent, going to be better in the long term?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7703 - 03/06/2024 14:45:04    2549186

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "i have some sympathy with COR . In fairness to him , While he can talk about Systems of Play , and Patterns and Roles, and Lads fully committing & understanding what their Job is ...talking about it "afterwards" is black to White to fully understanding what is involved in putting these things into place . COR was doomed from day 1 , because he gave his view/outlook on what he saw as the Important stuff , when he decided that he didn't Need to Appoint a Coach as a Priority , . If he knew and understood fully how the game At County Level has moved & changed since he was involved , then he would have known , that was the starting point . Since then he is trying to play catch up. And this is where i have more sympathy for him. Because he is doing "the catch-up" while also trying to look as though he isn't.
He has got to hope that he and the lads can get a result against Monaghan and then string another Good game after that. This is his best case Scenario
He needs to try & shore up his credibility somehow, so that is an added stress, and i feel that the dressing room probably know that its damage limitations for everyone involved now till we exit .
The fault does not lie with COR , it lies with those charged with Putting the long term Plan in place , and most importantly knowing who is the right person for each job in the System . The CB , if they don't have the expertise to understand what is going wrong , and how to stop it, just need to be open minded enough to talk to serious people in a few good counties, and they will tell them their own experiences of how to get it right, and what pitfalls to try & avoid.
I can say one thing for certain. Messiahs , and Quick Fix Solutions, and Wishful thinking ...rarely cuts the mustard in a crisis"
Sorry but you say he is playing catch up but not wanting to look like it.Why not just get a coach in and admit you got it wrong?Why did the 2 coaches walk away from last year?Why did Jack flynn walk James mac? .I agree players do have to look at themselves as we made silly mistakes and poor shot selections but game was over at half time,we kicked 2 scores after half time but the first goal(poor mistakes)goes in and we collapsed.We gave Kerry every kickout not one player in the Kerry half for their kickout.We got back behind the ball but very rarely turned them over and when we did there was noone to kick it too so we go sideways and backeays and Kerry get back in shape.We had a free (a difficult enough one)and every Meath player runs back behind the halfway line.What if it dropped short or hit the post no one there to take advantage.Ive often seen goals come from pressure in the square or a dropped catch!We get to the 45 and then we dont know what to do with it?We dont back ourselves to take a man on one on one often enough we do it very rarely.I hate been critical of the team as they put so much effort in which I appreciate so much but it looks as if we're lost and dont know what to do.We had 15 men behind the ball but very few tackles or hits going in.no point marking space as the man has the ball.If we beat Monaghan it will just paper over the cracks and will be talking this time next about the same thing.Only one way o Rourke should be there next year if he agrees to a top coach coming in and he actually listens to him but I'd have my doubts that he would?

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 296 - 03/06/2024 14:51:36    2549187

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Replying To Ed2010:  "Cop yourself on. We have a better talent pool than louth. Fact. Just need a good coach"
What a laugh - FACT, Meath has a bigger pool of players to pick from (due to larger volume of clubs & bigger geographical area). Posters in Meath earlier in season were predicting victories at underage due to "superior players" in county. Assuming superiority won't and didn't put enough balls over the bar.

ged (Louth) - Posts: 299 - 03/06/2024 15:18:44    2549192

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Replying To Ed2010:  "Cop yourself on. We have a better talent pool than louth. Fact. Just need a good coach"
What are you basing that off?

Meathfor@life (Meath) - Posts: 85 - 03/06/2024 16:03:27    2549199

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Replying To Unitedroyal:  "If we take any positives from todays match I look at the younger leaders caufield never stopped the fight, frayne kicked a lovely a long range score and kept going to the very end, finally shoutout to young o halloran big task for a 19 year old to mark one of the best in Ireland and do a good job the only point paudie scored was when he wasn't actually on him. Small wins out of a poor showing"
Yeah agree with that the young lads were probably the ones really setting the standards which is the biggest worry

Meathfor@life (Meath) - Posts: 85 - 03/06/2024 16:04:23    2549200

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "Cian Ward nails that shambles of a performance yesterday and the last two years perfectly on the Smaller Fish podcast. Absolutely nothing positive to take from it and says he will be shocked if O'Rourke is there next year. The local media would want to take a leaf out of his book, instead of tip toeing around the the whole mess and just call it as they see it. Not once have any of them call out the management on the teams poor performances. They just parrot O'Rourkes excuses about young players etc etc"
Just seen the clip there and yeah he's bang on with his points

Meathfor@life (Meath) - Posts: 85 - 03/06/2024 16:06:02    2549203

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Players are capable of Division 1 and playing much better than they are. Who is head coach this year?.. Why are 2 of the coaches from 2023 not involved anymore?. Why do we not have a top management team that the group of players deserve? I have never heard once where management has said we need to have a look at ourselves its always players players young inexperienced developing bad days...Players must feel annoyed by that constant message

HARRYM (Wicklow) - Posts: 70 - 03/06/2024 16:38:57    2549220

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Replying To Meathfor@life:  "What are you basing that off?"
To start with with we have 100,000 more people living here....

Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 109 - 03/06/2024 17:15:15    2549229

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Genuinely the worst and most passive performance I have seen from a Meath team! We lined out with 10 defenders and still conceded 20 scores! To me - we looked like we had no real game plan or tactics! We offered no real fight or aggression either!
The future looks grim even with a fine group of 20s coming through!!

Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 515 - 03/06/2024 19:33:42    2549262

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