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Is David Clifford The Best Footballer In The Country Right Now?

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I like young David, think he has a long way to go though, don't think he will ever live up to the impact he made at underage as he physically peaked much earlier in addition to being a very gifted player. I don't think he has or will have the same impact at senior but be a very very good player. One thing I've been surprised at this year has been his lack of goal scoring threat in or just outside the Square. He's been good but a long way off being called the best in the country. He's in hard company, with some truly wonderful forwards around. Very young though and loads of head room, he's a player who I think his skill set will be undermined by the advanced mark. It's going to be much easier for other players to do what he does under pressure next season under zero pressure of 15 second mark. Be interesting to see can he evolve.

I'm sure everyone heard the gag after the All Ireland!

David Clifford: God sent me to play football and win All Ireland's for Kerry.

Con O Callaghan: I sent no one.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3075 - 22/10/2019 21:21:46    2245071

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Replying To oneoff:  "He'll just have to retire now seeing as you've cast your verdict on the matter"
What a stupid comment

Can a poster not have an opinion without such a response

Why do find it offensive?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19759 - 22/10/2019 21:21:53    2245072

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Me too

Con can score just as freely but is far more direct and now one of the best ball winners and I've lost count of his direct assists

Better tackler and works far more effectively for the team in doing the dirty hard work compared to Clifford

Then at a flick of a switch can do outstanding acts of skill at pace

Get back to me on Clifford when he's scored the type of goals that Con has in huge games

Imagine if Clifford had scored the same sorts of goals... Tsunami of jizz time!

Poems would be written..

Unreal moments of skill that resulted in goals

That's what separates the best from the rest

And that's what Con is all about...

If it wasn't for Cluxtons ridiculously good performances in both finals, Con would be a shoe in for POTY

Last time I looked the "best player in the country" wasn't even story listed and his Kerry team mate deserves YPOTY after a far more impressive showing"
And just for the craic Con wins Club Hurling All Ireland's in his spare time.

It's ridiculous really how good Con is.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3075 - 22/10/2019 21:25:37    2245075

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Me too

Con can score just as freely but is far more direct and now one of the best ball winners and I've lost count of his direct assists

Better tackler and works far more effectively for the team in doing the dirty hard work compared to Clifford

Then at a flick of a switch can do outstanding acts of skill at pace

Get back to me on Clifford when he's scored the type of goals that Con has in huge games

Imagine if Clifford had scored the same sorts of goals... Tsunami of jizz time!

Poems would be written..

Unreal moments of skill that resulted in goals

That's what separates the best from the rest

And that's what Con is all about...

If it wasn't for Cluxtons ridiculously good performances in both finals, Con would be a shoe in for POTY

Last time I looked the "best player in the country" wasn't even story listed and his Kerry team mate deserves YPOTY after a far more impressive showing"
Con is a few years older Jim. Give David a bit of time to develop fully. He is better than Con was at 21 imo and can improve further.

They'll probably be the two top forwards in the game over the next while. God willing they both stay free of serious injuries.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 22/10/2019 21:41:27    2245085

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Con is a few years older Jim. Give David a bit of time to develop fully. He is better than Con was at 21 imo and can improve further.

They'll probably be the two top forwards in the game over the next while. God willing they both stay free of serious injuries."
I am chief

I'm not the one calling him the best

He's nowhere near it in 2019

Not even an All Star in my opinion

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19759 - 22/10/2019 21:49:24    2245087

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Replying To jimbodub:  "What a stupid comment

Can a poster not have an opinion without such a response

Why do find it offensive?"
It's my opinion..... what's so offensive about it?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 255 - 22/10/2019 22:04:01    2245093

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Replying To jimbodub:  "I am chief

I'm not the one calling him the best

He's nowhere near it in 2019

Not even an All Star in my opinion"
I'm not saying he is either but the spite in your posts is jumping off the screen. I really don't understand where it coming from.

As for comparisons between Con and David, too early. Like I said the age gap seems to be forgotten but it is quite significant. Con was average as a senior a few years ago, and David will be a better player in a few years time. Perhaps it is best to judge at the end of their careers rather than the beginning.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 22/10/2019 22:18:01    2245101

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Clifford shouldn't even be getting an All star for his showing in 2019

Best footballer in the country??

For feck sake there were better Kerry forwards far more deserving

Clifford was largely figured out in 2019

A large part of why he wasn't half as effective compared to 2018 where he was excellent and deserving of much praise

He's dropped down into the pack and with defenders figuring out his movement and largely nullifying his goal threat he'll have plenty to work on.

Also he was blessed not to receive a red card for his elbow on Murchan

The silence surrounding that tackle of course is unsurprising"
Missed this one. Defenders figured him out? LOL. Someone should have tipped Johnny Cooper off and he mightn't have gotten roasted the way he did before Gough mercifully put an end to it.

What an utterly daft post, did you even watch any Kerry games before you came to this conclusion? I presume you watched the finals?

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 22/10/2019 22:29:16    2245106

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Con is a few years older Jim. Give David a bit of time to develop fully. He is better than Con was at 21 imo and can improve further.

They'll probably be the two top forwards in the game over the next while. God willing they both stay free of serious injuries."
Not sure about that Gerry at the same age as David, Con won, an Ireland Club Hurling, All Ireland U 21, All Ireland Senior (his second). He shot the lights out with a 12 point return in the provincial final and scored a goal within mins of the All Ireland final win. Going on to win YPOTY.

No comparisons in those CV's.

David is a good player, he doesn't have some of Cons key attributes though. Work rate, vision of overall play/teamwork and goal threat in big games in particular being areas in particular that lets him down presently, or rather areas he needs to develop. Very very young though admittedly and he will develop.

But yeah, they will be up there with best forwards, I honestly think Sean O Shea is currently a better player then David, always surprises me he gets less hype then Clifford. He's a gem and for me if I was putting money down, will go onto be Kerrys most important of the era ahead.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3075 - 22/10/2019 23:04:55    2245117

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Out of interest I just had a look at the championship scoring stats. Coming in to the final Con O'Callaghan had scored 4-09 in six games, David Clifford 0-17 in five games.

David outscored Con in both the final and replay leaving them with practically identical scoring records this year. If David has played v Meath he probably would have edged it. I therefore find it interesting that people want to crown Con POTY and have decided David Clifford is being figured out and is not even worthy of an All Star etc etc. A lot of people talking out their backsides on here, you know who you are! Tbh Con is getting far too much praise for a few flashy goals against bad teams.

And I must correct my earlier posts, David is but 20, three years Cons junior which is a huge gap at senior level.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 22/10/2019 23:32:24    2245122

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Missed this one. Defenders figured him out? LOL. Someone should have tipped Johnny Cooper off and he mightn't have gotten roasted the way he did before Gough mercifully put an end to it.

What an utterly daft post, did you even watch any Kerry games before you came to this conclusion? I presume you watched the finals?"
He was a new player in 2018 and a sort of unknown puzzle

He did very well off the back of it not so much in 2019, I'm not saying he wasnt good but there was a lot more work done on him by defenders and he didn't have the same impact. Other Kerry players stood out ahead of him and I hope they get the totally justified personal accolades ahead of Clifford.

He simply wasnt as explosive as Con or as dynamic. He wasn't a goal threat and Kerry lacked goals this year. Comparing score stats from the final when Dublin were down to 14 men for more than half of one game is also "daft". Dublin were at an offensive disadvantage and let's be honest.. if Connolly gave Con that tap in it would have been a different story and a comprehensive win. It was anyway but coulsd have been a lot worse.

Con ran Kerry ragged in 2nd game

What's daft Gerry is your comparison of both players at 21??

Con was hurling an awful lot at the time and didn't have a rest until league campaign 2018. He was a busy boy winning all that was put in front of him. He was pivitol in a Dublin club making history and breaking new ground.

He dudnt have the same amout of senior football time

Clifford is a very good player but one second your saying he needs time to develop which is obvious.

He has the potential but Con has already proven that Clifford is a distant 2nd. Find impacts in major games on YouTube

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19759 - 23/10/2019 10:02:13    2245155

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Replying To jimbodub:  "He was a new player in 2018 and a sort of unknown puzzle

He did very well off the back of it not so much in 2019, I'm not saying he wasnt good but there was a lot more work done on him by defenders and he didn't have the same impact. Other Kerry players stood out ahead of him and I hope they get the totally justified personal accolades ahead of Clifford.

He simply wasnt as explosive as Con or as dynamic. He wasn't a goal threat and Kerry lacked goals this year. Comparing score stats from the final when Dublin were down to 14 men for more than half of one game is also "daft". Dublin were at an offensive disadvantage and let's be honest.. if Connolly gave Con that tap in it would have been a different story and a comprehensive win. It was anyway but coulsd have been a lot worse.

Con ran Kerry ragged in 2nd game

What's daft Gerry is your comparison of both players at 21??

Con was hurling an awful lot at the time and didn't have a rest until league campaign 2018. He was a busy boy winning all that was put in front of him. He was pivitol in a Dublin club making history and breaking new ground.

He dudnt have the same amout of senior football time

Clifford is a very good player but one second your saying he needs time to develop which is obvious.

He has the potential but Con has already proven that Clifford is a distant 2nd. Find impacts in major games on YouTube"
I compared them over the year, not just the final, they had very similar seasons statistically. I was surprised at how close they were in scoring terms, I would have thought Con was well ahead but David's score per game ratio is actually slightly higher this year. I know there are other things you judge players on but for an inside forward scores is the big one.

David is being judged against his success at underage where people want a Roy of the Rovers performance every game which is impossible. Averaging four points a game is excellent at this level, never mind for a 20 year old.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 23/10/2019 11:09:03    2245176

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Not sure about that Gerry at the same age as David, Con won, an Ireland Club Hurling, All Ireland U 21, All Ireland Senior (his second). He shot the lights out with a 12 point return in the provincial final and scored a goal within mins of the All Ireland final win. Going on to win YPOTY.

No comparisons in those CV's.

David is a good player, he doesn't have some of Cons key attributes though. Work rate, vision of overall play/teamwork and goal threat in big games in particular being areas in particular that lets him down presently, or rather areas he needs to develop. Very very young though admittedly and he will develop.

But yeah, they will be up there with best forwards, I honestly think Sean O Shea is currently a better player then David, always surprises me he gets less hype then Clifford. He's a gem and for me if I was putting money down, will go onto be Kerrys most important of the era ahead."
The CV's are largely down to the teams he has played on. Con was not a key player or even a starter for Dublin at 20 years of age. Nothing can be proven either way but personally I think David is a better footballer now than Con was back then and will go on to be better over time. Easy to forget how young David is, and yes he has to improve in some areas naturally.

I couldnt disagree more that David lacks vision and work rate. His off the ball running and knack of being in the right place at the right time is marvellous and is something you only notice in real time. This is something that can't really be taught and he is a natural. Decision making was his main issue this year, trying to do too much and trying very difficult shots when recycling would be the better option etc. This will come in time.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 23/10/2019 11:27:29    2245182

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "The CV's are largely down to the teams he has played on. Con was not a key player or even a starter for Dublin at 20 years of age. Nothing can be proven either way but personally I think David is a better footballer now than Con was back then and will go on to be better over time. Easy to forget how young David is, and yes he has to improve in some areas naturally.

I couldnt disagree more that David lacks vision and work rate. His off the ball running and knack of being in the right place at the right time is marvellous and is something you only notice in real time. This is something that can't really be taught and he is a natural. Decision making was his main issue this year, trying to do too much and trying very difficult shots when recycling would be the better option etc. This will come in time."
Stick to the topic lads,the question is, is David Clifford the best footballer in the country "Right Now", in my opinion the answer is no, there are a number of players in the country better than him right now including at least one Kerry team-mate, whether he is the best twenty year old ever to play the game or not is irrelevant and if he can become the best player ever to play the game in his future career is equally not relevant to the question asked. Is David Clifford the best footballer in the country right now, definitely not.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 105 - 23/10/2019 12:00:29    2245188

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "The CV's are largely down to the teams he has played on. Con was not a key player or even a starter for Dublin at 20 years of age. Nothing can be proven either way but personally I think David is a better footballer now than Con was back then and will go on to be better over time. Easy to forget how young David is, and yes he has to improve in some areas naturally.

I couldnt disagree more that David lacks vision and work rate. His off the ball running and knack of being in the right place at the right time is marvellous and is something you only notice in real time. This is something that can't really be taught and he is a natural. Decision making was his main issue this year, trying to do too much and trying very difficult shots when recycling would be the better option etc. This will come in time."
Gerry you also compared their scoring tally in the final

Which wasn't a valid comparison considering what I outlined

Listen two good players but Con is only going to get better too chief. He

Still very young himself and well listen.. when Clifford has pulled off the type of scores Con has got in major games you can get back to me

You are hoping Clifford will walk the walk and youve plenty of assumptions that need to be proven

Con has nothing to prove and he was unreal this year

He has more match winning attributes and basically is the better all round player

Clifford as you said needs to develop.. to get to where Con currently is.

Let's see if he can

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19759 - 23/10/2019 12:14:14    2245193

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Stick to the topic lads,the question is, is David Clifford the best footballer in the country "Right Now", in my opinion the answer is no, there are a number of players in the country better than him right now including at least one Kerry team-mate, whether he is the best twenty year old ever to play the game or not is irrelevant and if he can become the best player ever to play the game in his future career is equally not relevant to the question asked. Is David Clifford the best footballer in the country right now, definitely not."
Sort of what I'm saying alright

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19759 - 23/10/2019 12:15:11    2245195

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Stick to the topic lads,the question is, is David Clifford the best footballer in the country "Right Now", in my opinion the answer is no, there are a number of players in the country better than him right now including at least one Kerry team-mate, whether he is the best twenty year old ever to play the game or not is irrelevant and if he can become the best player ever to play the game in his future career is equally not relevant to the question asked. Is David Clifford the best footballer in the country right now, definitely not."
Yes, because every thread on HS sticks rigidly to the topic. If we can't have discussion and debate on here what is the point of having an account, and for that matter who made you an admin?

With respect, mind your own business!

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 23/10/2019 12:39:26    2245200

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "The CV's are largely down to the teams he has played on. Con was not a key player or even a starter for Dublin at 20 years of age. Nothing can be proven either way but personally I think David is a better footballer now than Con was back then and will go on to be better over time. Easy to forget how young David is, and yes he has to improve in some areas naturally.

I couldnt disagree more that David lacks vision and work rate. His off the ball running and knack of being in the right place at the right time is marvellous and is something you only notice in real time. This is something that can't really be taught and he is a natural. Decision making was his main issue this year, trying to do too much and trying very difficult shots when recycling would be the better option etc. This will come in time."
Think thats harsh myself Gerry, at comparative ages three seasons ago, Con one all i mentioned - whatever about Dublin Senior success (his second), the U 21 success and Cuala success, were not about the high caliber players he played on. He also went on to win the SIgurrson a couple of months later. The lad is 23 and has won every major honor in the game, his medal count is just ridiculous, he has had a better career success wise already then many greats of the game. Doing so by being a pivotal player on all those teams. He was a pivotel player for Dublin at the same age.

I dont have an axe to grind with David, i enjoy watching him and i hope he kicks on, hes a very very good player and i hope he continues to develop but i don feel their are challenges for him. For me if he played for Dublin he would be a very different and more developed player, im not sure on his current showing he would make the Dublin forward line, thats not a criticism but their areas of his game that Gavin would tolerate. I mentioned work rate and if we take Con as an example Con, will flood every line he played the majority of 2018 at half forward flipping and enabling Kilkenny to be Dublins biggest scorer, he played no 11 and i think his performances at 11 last year are massively underrated as a play maker. He floods midfield and is one of our chief ball winners, he floods back you will remember he probably should have ot a black for the pull down in the final in our own D. I dont see David having that work rate or that broad skill set yet. I saw it in O Shea, the Rock free being the obvious example.

I also think Con is very unselfish, he always was, he has the skills as a lethal finisher but he also has the skills of a play maker, he can see the bigger picture he can take the right option, give the right pass, slow the game up and then speed it up. These are things i dont see in David yet, he is a bit impetuous and i think a little but eager to score himself. Con has everything.

Con is far more well rounded and offer a broader skill set, as for his scoring stats, i think his unselfishness, brings his own rate down, but i think if the figures for direct assists were kown i would think hes the top in the country, he also takes no set pieces, i know David takes a few, Con is also much more of a play maker, he and Kilkenny can flip roles during a game when hes inevitably double marked and is comfortable at 11 as 14 any line really. He also went of at 50 mins in most games this year up to the semi final and didnt play in Omagh. Scoring stats are bit of a cod anyway in my opinion, Cormac Costello, was Dublins top scorer going into the final and played rarely coming out of the provincials.

David is a fine player and he may well go on to eclipse Con, id have a concern for David going on if im honest, the mark, miles on the clock at a young age, the regression of other Kerry forwards as they get older and dependence on him, the ability o the Kerry coaching team to fulfill his potential. I think if he was in the Dublin set up he would be further along and more well rounded and developed, on his current showing i think hes struggling to crack the as talented as he is. Sean o Shea would all day long, Tom O Sullivan would have a good shot to. I dont think David would, perhaps on option on the bench. This isnt an Anti Kerry post as the two players i mention there are two i would have huge esteem and a couple of my favorite as a neutral.

I wouldn't swap Con for Clifford and i do like Clifford. But its likely we would disagree there which is all good as we are both happy, that our counties have the right player.

Hopefully David kicks on from here, you would expect him to given his youth, but there are challenges there for me.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3075 - 23/10/2019 12:56:05    2245208

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Gerry you also compared their scoring tally in the final

Which wasn't a valid comparison considering what I outlined

Listen two good players but Con is only going to get better too chief. He

Still very young himself and well listen.. when Clifford has pulled off the type of scores Con has got in major games you can get back to me

You are hoping Clifford will walk the walk and youve plenty of assumptions that need to be proven

Con has nothing to prove and he was unreal this year

He has more match winning attributes and basically is the better all round player

Clifford as you said needs to develop.. to get to where Con currently is.

Let's see if he can"
I listed both scoring stats coming up to the final and mentioned that David outscored Con by a point in both games. How is that not a valid comparison? It's a lot more valid than your waffle about him being figured out with nothing whatsoever to base it on.

Your entire argument is constructed on your biased opinion and generalised statements like 'explosive', telling me to go check out YouTube highlight reels as proof etc. You are talking complete pony and clearly haven't watched David much this year.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 23/10/2019 13:11:36    2245213

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Think thats harsh myself Gerry, at comparative ages three seasons ago, Con one all i mentioned - whatever about Dublin Senior success (his second), the U 21 success and Cuala success, were not about the high caliber players he played on. He also went on to win the SIgurrson a couple of months later. The lad is 23 and has won every major honor in the game, his medal count is just ridiculous, he has had a better career success wise already then many greats of the game. Doing so by being a pivotal player on all those teams. He was a pivotel player for Dublin at the same age.

I dont have an axe to grind with David, i enjoy watching him and i hope he kicks on, hes a very very good player and i hope he continues to develop but i don feel their are challenges for him. For me if he played for Dublin he would be a very different and more developed player, im not sure on his current showing he would make the Dublin forward line, thats not a criticism but their areas of his game that Gavin would tolerate. I mentioned work rate and if we take Con as an example Con, will flood every line he played the majority of 2018 at half forward flipping and enabling Kilkenny to be Dublins biggest scorer, he played no 11 and i think his performances at 11 last year are massively underrated as a play maker. He floods midfield and is one of our chief ball winners, he floods back you will remember he probably should have ot a black for the pull down in the final in our own D. I dont see David having that work rate or that broad skill set yet. I saw it in O Shea, the Rock free being the obvious example.

I also think Con is very unselfish, he always was, he has the skills as a lethal finisher but he also has the skills of a play maker, he can see the bigger picture he can take the right option, give the right pass, slow the game up and then speed it up. These are things i dont see in David yet, he is a bit impetuous and i think a little but eager to score himself. Con has everything.

Con is far more well rounded and offer a broader skill set, as for his scoring stats, i think his unselfishness, brings his own rate down, but i think if the figures for direct assists were kown i would think hes the top in the country, he also takes no set pieces, i know David takes a few, Con is also much more of a play maker, he and Kilkenny can flip roles during a game when hes inevitably double marked and is comfortable at 11 as 14 any line really. He also went of at 50 mins in most games this year up to the semi final and didnt play in Omagh. Scoring stats are bit of a cod anyway in my opinion, Cormac Costello, was Dublins top scorer going into the final and played rarely coming out of the provincials.

David is a fine player and he may well go on to eclipse Con, id have a concern for David going on if im honest, the mark, miles on the clock at a young age, the regression of other Kerry forwards as they get older and dependence on him, the ability o the Kerry coaching team to fulfill his potential. I think if he was in the Dublin set up he would be further along and more well rounded and developed, on his current showing i think hes struggling to crack the as talented as he is. Sean o Shea would all day long, Tom O Sullivan would have a good shot to. I dont think David would, perhaps on option on the bench. This isnt an Anti Kerry post as the two players i mention there are two i would have huge esteem and a couple of my favorite as a neutral.

I wouldn't swap Con for Clifford and i do like Clifford. But its likely we would disagree there which is all good as we are both happy, that our counties have the right player.

Hopefully David kicks on from here, you would expect him to given his youth, but there are challenges there for me."
I don't even know where to start with this. Do you honestly believe that Jim Gavin wouldn't have David every day of the week? He 'might' be an option off the bench and scoring stats for inside forwards are a cod?

Of course they are when they don't validate your point of view.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1640 - 23/10/2019 13:41:56    2245225

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