National Forum

Is David Clifford The Best Footballer In The Country Right Now?

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I don't even know where to start with this. Do you honestly believe that Jim Gavin wouldn't have David every day of the week? He 'might' be an option off the bench and scoring stats for inside forwards are a cod?

Of course they are when they don't validate your point of view."
I think Daivd would be in the panel but i think he would find it hard to get a starting game ahead of Con, Mannion and Rock certainly, thats before you look at the competition on the bench and i think he would get minutes certainly. I mean thats at his current level and what he produced this year. He would be seen at Dublin as a work in progress and would be used accordingly, just my opinion mind, other Dubs may feel differently. Sean O Shea i think would crack the Dublin forward line though it would be big competition, O Sullivan would have a shot in the back line, no one else from Kerry i think is breaking the Dublin starting team.

That said i do think if he was under the Dublin set up he would be further along in his development and would be a different player, so im open minded.

Thats fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion on stats, Adam Tyrall, scored more then either Con or David, Connor Cox, scored more pro rata per game, that just to mention a couple with better returns then both, by your perspective looking at scoring stats in those cases as an absolute, means they are better forwards/players then either Con or David. Its why i mention stats can often be a cod.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3077 - 23/10/2019 14:18:16    2245235

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David Moran and Steven O'Brien would almost certainly start for Dublin, probably Morley and even Jack Barry too who was brilliant late in the season once his injuries cleared up, not all together but individually they are as good as their Dublin counterparts along with the three you mentioned.

I'd say Paul Murphy too but I realise he is not getting in ahead of Mccaffery and McCarthy, he certainly wouldn't be out of place though.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1642 - 23/10/2019 14:44:53    2245244

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "David Moran and Steven O'Brien would almost certainly start for Dublin, probably Morley and even Jack Barry too who was brilliant late in the season once his injuries cleared up, not all together but individually they are as good as their Dublin counterparts along with the three you mentioned.

I'd say Paul Murphy too but I realise he is not getting in ahead of Mccaffery and McCarthy, he certainly wouldn't be out of place though."
Not in my opinion Gerry. I think we would agree to differ there

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3077 - 23/10/2019 14:58:07    2245248

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Yes, because every thread on HS sticks rigidly to the topic. If we can't have discussion and debate on here what is the point of having an account, and for that matter who made you an admin?

With respect, mind your own business!"
Considering this is a public forum I don't get the mind your own business comment and if you don't understand that staying on topic underscores quality debate and discussion then I suggest you change your misleading handle, "GENIUS".

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 105 - 23/10/2019 15:12:00    2245254

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Considering this is a public forum I don't get the mind your own business comment and if you don't understand that staying on topic underscores quality debate and discussion then I suggest you change your misleading handle, "GENIUS"."
This is a public forum, correct. I don't come on here dictating to others what they can and can't say / post and I expect the same courtesy unless you are an admin thanks very much.

And none of my posts were that O/T to begin with. Do you go around back seat modding all the other threads? I haven't noticed

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1642 - 23/10/2019 15:26:00    2245259

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Stick to the topic lads,the question is, is David Clifford the best footballer in the country "Right Now", in my opinion the answer is no, there are a number of players in the country better than him right now including at least one Kerry team-mate, whether he is the best twenty year old ever to play the game or not is irrelevant and if he can become the best player ever to play the game in his future career is equally not relevant to the question asked. Is David Clifford the best footballer in the country right now, definitely not."
I thought you post was very valid.
Not sure why GG would take offence to it.

There is no way Clifford is the best player in the country right now. He is not even the best player on the kerry team ffs.

Give him time.
Outstanding talent but some are getting ahead of themselves here referring to him as the best player in the country right now...

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 2809 - 23/10/2019 15:44:57    2245268

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Considering this is a public forum I don't get the mind your own business comment and if you don't understand that staying on topic underscores quality debate and discussion then I suggest you change your misleading handle, "GENIUS"."
lol

And so our love in with the kerry folk continues....
It wasnt this bad at all when we were winning sweet f**k all not so long ago - we got on just fine and dandy...!
Oh how times have changed....
Was it this bad in the 70's.???

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 2809 - 23/10/2019 15:49:30    2245271

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "This is a public forum, correct. I don't come on here dictating to others what they can and can't say / post and I expect the same courtesy unless you are an admin thanks very much.

And none of my posts were that O/T to begin with. Do you go around back seat modding all the other threads? I haven't noticed"
I thought it was a very accurate observation myself

It's not an uncommon thing to be said regarding threads to "stick to the topic"

I think youre overreacting and throwing your toys out of the pram a wee bit no?

Just my opinion mind.

I'm more than happy for SD to make that remark and I was part of the conversation which you're claiming isn't his business

Clifford simply isn't the best player at the moment and your scoring stats rebuttal was very well debunked by username in a fair amount of detail.

Scoring stats simply do not tell the complete story whatsoever.

If they did Kerry were silly not to be playing a certain Roscommon player.

Dean Rock scored more than Con

Was Dean Rock better than Con this year?

Come on now chief

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19760 - 23/10/2019 16:57:32    2245285

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Replying To jimbodub:  "I thought it was a very accurate observation myself

It's not an uncommon thing to be said regarding threads to "stick to the topic"

I think youre overreacting and throwing your toys out of the pram a wee bit no?

Just my opinion mind.

I'm more than happy for SD to make that remark and I was part of the conversation which you're claiming isn't his business

Clifford simply isn't the best player at the moment and your scoring stats rebuttal was very well debunked by username in a fair amount of detail.

Scoring stats simply do not tell the complete story whatsoever.

If they did Kerry were silly not to be playing a certain Roscommon player.

Dean Rock scored more than Con

Was Dean Rock better than Con this year?

Come on now chief"
Show me a single post on this thread where I stated DC is the best player in the country. You won't find one so it's a straw man argument. Fair enough if I had gone off on a complete tangent but I didn't, my posts all related to the player in question.

As for Username debunking my posts I take his analysis on anything Kerry with a large grain of salt at this stage. He has consistently written us off all year in every single big game and was wrong every time except for the final, never mind his glorious and frankly bizarre rant about Kerry after the league game in Tralee. It's no surprise to me that he doesn't rate DC, or any Kerry player except Sean O'Shea it seems.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1642 - 23/10/2019 17:42:44    2245303

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Show me a single post on this thread where I stated DC is the best player in the country. You won't find one so it's a straw man argument. Fair enough if I had gone off on a complete tangent but I didn't, my posts all related to the player in question.

As for Username debunking my posts I take his analysis on anything Kerry with a large grain of salt at this stage. He has consistently written us off all year in every single big game and was wrong every time except for the final, never mind his glorious and frankly bizarre rant about Kerry after the league game in Tralee. It's no surprise to me that he doesn't rate DC, or any Kerry player except Sean O'Shea it seems."
I do rate Clifford, I consistently said he's a good player, your prone to an absolute and black and white thinking Gerry, no point getting bent out of shape after a randomer like me critiquing a player or applying him hypothetically to do the Dublin seat up, I'm perfectly open to the possibility of being wrong, it's one of the brilliant things of life, being infallible as is owning your own opinion, I'm comfortable with both. As you say I really admire like O Shea as a player. As I say I like O Sullivan too.

I'm deeply flattered by your recollection of all my posts, I honestly don't have that good a memory for what any other posts writes on here, so fair play.

Kerry did well this year, if I'm being honest I don't think they are the second best team in the country, but I can understand many do. So I'd stand by the recollection of your posts, but I didn't start out in this debate to sling mud, I've no axe to grind with you, but thanks for your interest in what I post.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3077 - 23/10/2019 20:03:17    2245329

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I do rate Clifford, I consistently said he's a good player, your prone to an absolute and black and white thinking Gerry, no point getting bent out of shape after a randomer like me critiquing a player or applying him hypothetically to do the Dublin seat up, I'm perfectly open to the possibility of being wrong, it's one of the brilliant things of life, being infallible as is owning your own opinion, I'm comfortable with both. As you say I really admire like O Shea as a player. As I say I like O Sullivan too.

I'm deeply flattered by your recollection of all my posts, I honestly don't have that good a memory for what any other posts writes on here, so fair play.

Kerry did well this year, if I'm being honest I don't think they are the second best team in the country, but I can understand many do. So I'd stand by the recollection of your posts, but I didn't start out in this debate to sling mud, I've no axe to grind with you, but thanks for your interest in what I post."
I'm not especially interested but have noticed a pattern of persistent snide and dismissive remarks about Kerry in your posts, knocking the players, management etc. As we both post quite a bit here on topics involving both Kerry and Dublin it is hard to miss. That's perfectly fine, we are all entitled to our opinions, but my point to Jim was that against that backdrop you'll have to forgive me if I view your assessment of any Kerry player with some scepticism. If you see that as slinging mud then my apologies, that's not my intention. Will sign off at that.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1642 - 23/10/2019 21:57:23    2245347

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I'm not especially interested but have noticed a pattern of persistent snide and dismissive remarks about Kerry in your posts, knocking the players, management etc. As we both post quite a bit here on topics involving both Kerry and Dublin it is hard to miss. That's perfectly fine, we are all entitled to our opinions, but my point to Jim was that against that backdrop you'll have to forgive me if I view your assessment of any Kerry player with some scepticism. If you see that as slinging mud then my apologies, that's not my intention. Will sign off at that."
I find generally there is a very low threshold, to any critique around Kerry from Kerry fans, seems to me at times many of the fans just want to be told how great they are and how great their players are. If that's questioned or critiqued it's straight to victim mode. No idea what the purpose of joining a debating forum is really, with that mental pathway. Why not just post on an echo chamber of a Kerry only forum., I'm sure there are some.

Look, for many years Kerry got a lot of affirmation and rightly so, for a few years now they've been not as successful, talking about that and discussing some of the reasons around that isn't always knocking or being snide, some times it's objective, analysis or opinion. I tried to that in my posts above, without personalizing you, in fact I think I've said very complimentary things about you on here in the past, unfortunately you felt the need to personalize this debate now, when things got hot and heavy between you and Jim, that's poor Gerry. Anyway it's unimportant, all that matters in on the pitch.

It's disappointing you've jumped into victim mode and personanilised the debate when you ran out of steam, I always considered you one of the good ones, but you live and learn, best wishes.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3077 - 23/10/2019 23:38:50    2245359

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I find generally there is a very low threshold, to any critique around Kerry from Kerry fans, seems to me at times many of the fans just want to be told how great they are and how great their players are. If that's questioned or critiqued it's straight to victim mode. No idea what the purpose of joining a debating forum is really, with that mental pathway. Why not just post on an echo chamber of a Kerry only forum., I'm sure there are some.

Look, for many years Kerry got a lot of affirmation and rightly so, for a few years now they've been not as successful, talking about that and discussing some of the reasons around that isn't always knocking or being snide, some times it's objective, analysis or opinion. I tried to that in my posts above, without personalizing you, in fact I think I've said very complimentary things about you on here in the past, unfortunately you felt the need to personalize this debate now, when things got hot and heavy between you and Jim, that's poor Gerry. Anyway it's unimportant, all that matters in on the pitch.

It's disappointing you've jumped into victim mode and personanilised the debate when you ran out of steam, I always considered you one of the good ones, but you live and learn, best wishes."
''I find generally there is a very low threshold, to any critique around Kerry from Kerry fans, seems to me at times many of the fans just want to be told how great they are and how great their players are. If that's questioned or critiqued it's straight to victim mode.''

Replace Kerry with Dublin and you're talking about yourself and many other Dubs on here

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 255 - 24/10/2019 09:54:20    2245380

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think Daivd would be in the panel but i think he would find it hard to get a starting game ahead of Con, Mannion and Rock certainly, thats before you look at the competition on the bench and i think he would get minutes certainly. I mean thats at his current level and what he produced this year. He would be seen at Dublin as a work in progress and would be used accordingly, just my opinion mind, other Dubs may feel differently. Sean O Shea i think would crack the Dublin forward line though it would be big competition, O Sullivan would have a shot in the back line, no one else from Kerry i think is breaking the Dublin starting team.

That said i do think if he was under the Dublin set up he would be further along in his development and would be a different player, so im open minded.

Thats fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion on stats, Adam Tyrall, scored more then either Con or David, Connor Cox, scored more pro rata per game, that just to mention a couple with better returns then both, by your perspective looking at scoring stats in those cases as an absolute, means they are better forwards/players then either Con or David. Its why i mention stats can often be a cod."
So possibly no Kerry player would get on the Dublin team.....

I accept we all tend to be biased in favour of our own counties but, I think you have really lost all credibility there.

And, elsewhere, you say that Kerry are not the second best team in the country.....maybe you should take a little break for a while?

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 131 - 24/10/2019 10:16:17    2245387

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Lads come on now LOL so surprised that everyone is giving CON all this praise now lol after all he has literally been about senior level and playing consistently for 1 more season than Clifford, only one.

Honestly I think its plain ignorance to actually argue that CON is a better all round footballer than Clifford, his skillset is much much superior than Cons - it shoudknt even be up for comparison. Yeah CON filled out a bit more and got a bit more physical this year but did he actually get any better as a footballer? In my opinion No.

In terms of a quality footballer and taking everything into consideration there's not a sinner on this planet could convince me CON is better Clifford. Clifford can do absolutely everything and one of the most 2 footed players in the game right now. His skillset and overall game is much superior than CONS.

For anyone so quick to give the criticism and disregard his game because there is so much Hype about him, I laugh at you all because in 5 years time in this game i can promise you all there will be multiple CON OCallagan type players for numerous counties but you will do extremely well to find me another David Clifford, never before have I seen a player with a similar and superior game to Clifford.

Just watch the fella without being so bitter lads

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 181 - 24/10/2019 10:18:48    2245388

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Replying To Aibrean:  "So possibly no Kerry player would get on the Dublin team.....

I accept we all tend to be biased in favour of our own counties but, I think you have really lost all credibility there.

And, elsewhere, you say that Kerry are not the second best team in the country.....maybe you should take a little break for a while?"
In my opinion Sean O Shea and Tom O Sullivan probably would, i dont speak for the whole of Dublin and my inter county colleagues, so im sure some of the other Dublin lads might start young David, i would find it hard to drop anyone in our forward line for him personally.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3077 - 24/10/2019 10:49:00    2245394

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Replying To oneoff:  "''I find generally there is a very low threshold, to any critique around Kerry from Kerry fans, seems to me at times many of the fans just want to be told how great they are and how great their players are. If that's questioned or critiqued it's straight to victim mode.''

Replace Kerry with Dublin and you're talking about yourself and many other Dubs on here"
Maybe there can be a bit of truth in that and everyone has got a bit paranoid, ive just said in my opinion id take maybe three Kerry players into the Dublin starting 15, David would have a chance certainly, but i think that would be it.

If you took the noughties era, i think Dublin would be lucky to have three players from that era on the Kerry team of the same era, Tyrone similarly. Thats just the way it goes.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3077 - 24/10/2019 10:56:29    2245400

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Look lads this mudracker has been well marked long ago, the sneering, self-righteous, self-obsessed guff he spends his days writing on here should be scrolled past as quickly as possible.
He seems to amuse himself with it so let him at it.

As I've said many times on here before, any fella that would put up a post laughing about a young player being put into hospital by his team should have been run out of here long ago.

But look the admins don't seem to care, he probably is one of them given how much time he's on here and how often responses to what he and his cronies say are not let through.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 5134 - 24/10/2019 11:55:42    2245423

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Replying To boman11:  "Lads come on now LOL so surprised that everyone is giving CON all this praise now lol after all he has literally been about senior level and playing consistently for 1 more season than Clifford, only one.

Honestly I think its plain ignorance to actually argue that CON is a better all round footballer than Clifford, his skillset is much much superior than Cons - it shoudknt even be up for comparison. Yeah CON filled out a bit more and got a bit more physical this year but did he actually get any better as a footballer? In my opinion No.

In terms of a quality footballer and taking everything into consideration there's not a sinner on this planet could convince me CON is better Clifford. Clifford can do absolutely everything and one of the most 2 footed players in the game right now. His skillset and overall game is much superior than CONS.

For anyone so quick to give the criticism and disregard his game because there is so much Hype about him, I laugh at you all because in 5 years time in this game i can promise you all there will be multiple CON OCallagan type players for numerous counties but you will do extremely well to find me another David Clifford, never before have I seen a player with a similar and superior game to Clifford.

Just watch the fella without being so bitter lads"
Just one point regarding multiple C. O'C type players, maybe just have a look at a point he scored against Roscommon in the Q/Fs this year, coming out from goal at speed he caught a 40 metre pass above his head, the rossie defender came under him from behind forcing him to land on his heels at 45 degrees, wonderfully kept his balance, leaned into the defender with his left shoulder, spun on his left foot, and slapped it over the bar, just a composite of the array of skills this guy has coming together in one play. If you believe there are multiple players around that would even attempt to execute a score like this never mind achieve it perfectly, names on a page please, you won't need much paper. By the way Clifford is a super talent. Con is the best forward on the best team in the land and not one of many equals playing with numerous counties now or in the next 5 years.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 105 - 24/10/2019 12:01:09    2245424

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Well this has turned into some p1issing contest. My answer to the title of the thread, no Clifford is not currently the best player in the country. However, I think he absolutely has all of the attributes to be. He's phenomenally talented and is already one of the best forwards in the game.
Con is the most dangerous forward in football currently, in my opinion. He can win any type of ball, will beat his man almost every time and is a serious goal threat.
In terms of inside forwards, I'd still have someone like McManus ahead of Clifford, but that could change very soon.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 597 - 24/10/2019 14:15:46    2245466

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