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Replying To omahant: "I think the idea is that the new proposals would draw out the defence, create more space and motivate more kicking, thereby indirectly lowering handpasses." Or they could just do something outright with the handpassing and stop messing around the edges. No backward handpassing would cut out a lot of the nonsense being seen at the minute
eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 13/06/2024 11:14:53
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Replying To dahayeser: "The shot clock idea may have some merit. You hear rugby refs shouting "use it or lose it". Seems to be at their discretion.
There was that famous Roscommon point v Dublin a couple of years ago in the league where they held the ball for the last 5 or 6 minutes of the first half before kicking a point on the stroke of half time.
Anything that is done has to be simple so it can be implemented at all levels." It was actually over 8 minutes. Shot clock would be a good idea. Discretion of ref he has a game clock on his wrist so could be applied at every level. 4 points for a goal might encourage teams to be more defensive.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13853 - 13/06/2024 11:16:32
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The more I think on some of these proposed changes the more doubts come into my mind.
The proposed scoring arc for two points, this could end up very contentious, the difference between 1 and 2 points will be the width of the white line, imagine an all ireland decided on a mistaken 2 pointer, also does a free from the two point zone also move up to 2 points as otherwise you will get an increase of fouls in that area, will that also encourage more play acting to win frees in those areas.
Keeping 3 back suffers from this problem also, in essence it's like an offside line, and so the pressure this heaps on officials increases.
For me the one change that would dramatically change how we currently play the game is the pass to the keeper, as it stands the team with the ball can create a +1 if you remove the pass to the keeper it allows the opposition to go man for man everywhere, it makes pressing valuable and coaches will target that. I think you would have to do this in combination with keeping a set number of players in the other half at all times to allow for some space to attack.
I think the gaa are to be commended for looking at this, it's not an easy job though, the sandbox is a good idea and should be open to an audience to get as wide opinion on the results of it as possible.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 13/06/2024 11:36:40
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Hard to know how these trials will work out.
A lot of them I'm not sure of but willing to give the committee leeway as maybe their seeing things that I can't envisage yet.
A few initial thoughts on the article
The nub of Gaelic footballs problem is forward players dropping deep to be part of blanket.
I find it hard to see requirement to keep 3 players in areas of pitch at all times will work smoothly, this requirement should be restricted to kickouts and then for more than 2 outfield players for the kickouts.
If we can bring in rule/ rules that results in teams leaving attacking players forward (not dropping back) we will need to do something about the tackle rule (to go back to giving more leeway to tacklers) or it probably will be too easy for the attacking team.
I can't say I really understand what the tackle rule change described in the article actually means.
Talk of changing scoring system (and extra circular lines on the pitch) to have something other than goals/ points and especially shot clocks sounds like we are going to have over complicated rules which are hard to implement.
I'd like to see kickouts have to go a certain distance and off the ground (ie. no kicking tee like it used to be), this would help go back to a more tradational style (much harder to accurately kick off the ground than than from a kicking tee).
More subs seems to suit stronger teams to overrun the opposition when they start to tire, I'd prefer to see less subs.
Seeing as the committee is made up of coaches I hope they are not too bought in to modern tactical play (blankets) to realise they are the nub of the problem.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 13/06/2024 12:18:54
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Replying To omahant: "2 pts - I agree it's a bit overvalued. In the NBA, it's 3 pts long/ 2 pts short. Should your scale then be doubled to avoid 'halves' - to 2, 3 and goal 8 pts?
40 arc - I think rectangles are easier to monitor - say, a broken line across from the top of the D (33 metres to goal line), although longer then as the angled shot becomes more acute, which to me would be ok.
Tackle - Yes, it needs to be better defined - allow a 'half Aussie Rules tackle' - one arm allowed to wrap around the ball carrier?
Shot Clock - Maybe make it unscientific - ref makes judgement as to whether team in possession is making progress towards a scoring attempt versus "keep ball" - violation is free at midfield?
At least 3 back - I find this confusing as presented in the media - surely it's keep "at least 3 up" inside the attacking 65? As presented, I feel "at least 3 back" means it can be a 15-man blanket - what am I missing?" Maybe to keep the scoring system simple, why not just limit a "point" to that long-range variety as well as short ones only following a kick to inside the 20 from outside the 45 (call it the 45-20 kick similar to rugby's 50-22. Then keep goals at 3 pts.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2886 - 13/06/2024 12:34:12
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Replying To omahant: "Maybe to keep the scoring system simple, why not just limit a "point" to that long-range variety as well as short ones only following a kick to inside the 20 from outside the 45 (call it the 45-20 kick similar to rugby's 50-22. Then keep goals at 3 pts." Ban throwing over the bar points.
No skill ****.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 13/06/2024 12:58:44
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I'd have it that a free (other than a 45) taken outside the 45 yard line AND taken from the ground by an outfield player and not the goalkeeper is worth two points.
eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 274 - 13/06/2024 13:17:39
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Ban throwing over the bar points.
No skill ****." Nobody throws the ball over the bar you fool.. if they did it would just show the incompetence of both the referee and his two umpires… You would probably rather see the players turn back and recycle the ball multiple times while the crowd nods off asleep…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 13/06/2024 15:09:23
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Replying To eslinchickenmaryland: "I'd have it that a free (other than a 45) taken outside the 45 yard line AND taken from the ground by an outfield player and not the goalkeeper is worth two points." Just ban goalkeepers trudging up wasting time to take 45's…simple
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 13/06/2024 15:11:48
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I genuinely think if they stay messing with the rules no one will even play the game never mind go 2 games is there any other amateur game in the world where they keep messing with the rules it's an joke giving 2 points for point outside the 40 keep 3 players from each team in one half can u imagine trying police thar at club level Whete it's actually hard enough get referees stop the messing with the rules. Gaelic football always getting bad press from people who don't even go 2 matches in hurling match last weekend I counted 7 hand passes in a row and not a word being said short puck outs goung 20 meters then hand pass it stsraigh back to goalie in fairness to hurling top brass they stand up for the game and would not accept such stupid rules ,, In football get rid of forward mark start both halves with kicout whoever wins toss has choice at start of game it gets rid of pulling and dragging but giving 2 points for a 40 yard point is pure utter stupidity and 4 for a gosl
Kickitout (Galway) - Posts: 953 - 13/06/2024 17:46:01
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Replying To Kickitout: "I genuinely think if they stay messing with the rules no one will even play the game never mind go 2 games is there any other amateur game in the world where they keep messing with the rules it's an joke giving 2 points for point outside the 40 keep 3 players from each team in one half can u imagine trying police thar at club level Whete it's actually hard enough get referees stop the messing with the rules. Gaelic football always getting bad press from people who don't even go 2 matches in hurling match last weekend I counted 7 hand passes in a row and not a word being said short puck outs goung 20 meters then hand pass it stsraigh back to goalie in fairness to hurling top brass they stand up for the game and would not accept such stupid rules ,, In football get rid of forward mark start both halves with kicout whoever wins toss has choice at start of game it gets rid of pulling and dragging but giving 2 points for a 40 yard point is pure utter stupidity and 4 for a gosl" Why do people think getting rid of the forward mark is some kind of magic potion to imorove the game as a spectacle??
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 13/06/2024 20:01:46
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Replying To Kickitout: "I genuinely think if they stay messing with the rules no one will even play the game never mind go 2 games is there any other amateur game in the world where they keep messing with the rules it's an joke giving 2 points for point outside the 40 keep 3 players from each team in one half can u imagine trying police thar at club level Whete it's actually hard enough get referees stop the messing with the rules. Gaelic football always getting bad press from people who don't even go 2 matches in hurling match last weekend I counted 7 hand passes in a row and not a word being said short puck outs goung 20 meters then hand pass it stsraigh back to goalie in fairness to hurling top brass they stand up for the game and would not accept such stupid rules ,, In football get rid of forward mark start both halves with kicout whoever wins toss has choice at start of game it gets rid of pulling and dragging but giving 2 points for a 40 yard point is pure utter stupidity and 4 for a gosl" I agree with you 100%….. stop messing with the rules.. if your doing anything just get rid of some of the stupid ones… forward mark and the ever annoying black card…!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 13/06/2024 20:29:16
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Why do people think getting rid of the forward mark is some kind of magic potion to imorove the game as a spectacle??" I'd be interested to see how advantage from the mark would unfold. Might see more goalscoring opportunities taken on. One v one throw-ins should be cleaner. Kickouts from the small rectangular should see the games on average restarted faster.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 13/06/2024 21:59:58
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If adopted, how would you best delineate the new 40-metres arc - particularly to aid club Junior C officials?
I say place a bright pink-coloured thick rope or 15-cms high border on the pitch - would it help/work?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2886 - 14/06/2024 00:53:25
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Why do people think getting rid of the forward mark is some kind of magic potion to imorove the game as a spectacle??" Because if you knew anything about the game which you obviously don't…. the 'mark' only slows down the game and stops the flow.. Anyway why should a forward get a free for catching the ball… I was of the impression that that's what he was always supposed to be able to do…. ? Get rid immediately
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 14/06/2024 12:12:03
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Because if you knew anything about the game which you obviously don't…. the 'mark' only slows down the game and stops the flow.. Anyway why should a forward get a free for catching the ball… I was of the impression that that's what he was always supposed to be able to do…. ? Get rid immediately" I agree. The mark isn't being used as intended. A mark for a contested catch from a high ball in is one thing; a mark from a short dink into the breadbasket of a forward running away from goal is a different thing completely.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 352 - 14/06/2024 13:42:52
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Replying To omahant: "If adopted, how would you best delineate the new 40-metres arc - particularly to aid club Junior C officials?
I say place a bright pink-coloured thick rope or 15-cms high border on the pitch - would it help/work?" I have a better use for that bright pink coloured thick rope….,.!!!!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 14/06/2024 13:44:27
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Replying To Barrowsider: "I like the solo and go idea, it should speed up the game, I'd like to make sure it's solo and go forward though.
Bringing the mark to a ball caught inside the 20 from outside the 45 makes sense.
Keeping 3 inside the 65 could be tricky for refs more so" Agree mark for catching a ball inside the 20m line from kickpass hit outside 45 could be a better spectical, though I don't want to see a mark given for a uncontested ball kicked into the corner flag,
Should the 40m arc extend to the endline, so its essentially creating a 3rd "Mark" box 20m (line) X 40m wide (20m either side the middle of the Goals) So you want to great the environment where that long high ball kicked is contested with greater intensity than a ball kicked Cornerflag as it's almost certain to generate a score,
The other crowd spectacle that would get fans on their feet is allowing the Aussie rules style catch (using your knee on opponents back to elevate yourself higher into the air to catch a ball only from a kickout or mark in the 3rd box/ 20m line
Tirchonailabu56 (Donegal) - Posts: 23 - 14/06/2024 22:19:15
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "I have a better use for that bright pink coloured thick rope….,.!!!!" You need to explicitly state what that means.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2886 - 15/06/2024 01:05:26
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Repeating from earlier....
Maybe to keep the scoring system simple, why not just limit a "point" to the "outside the 40-metres arc" long-range variety as well as short ones only following a kick to inside the 20 from outside the 45 (call it the 45-20 kick similar to rugby's 50-22). Then keep goals at 3 pts.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2886 - 15/06/2024 16:12:21
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