National Forum

GAA President - Jarlath Burns

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Replying To Viking66:  "Still think the ideal solution is less intercounty games, spaced further apart, with club games in between. It worked for a hundred odd years until the greed set in. Greed from management for players time, greed from public and the administrators for more games etc etc."
Never a truer word ,there saying burn out ,but keep increasing games ,,, connacht u20 gone to round Robin, then top 3 go threw ,then bottom 2 shield final ,and I think they v created a all Ireland b after that !!!!
I'm not a soccer man ,but why is it the fa Cup, ya don't ear them saying its not fair to be knocked after 1 game ,ooh wait it's because they v a league also

Timmy86 (Sligo) - Posts: 304 - 18/04/2024 13:29:14    2538842

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Replying To Viking66:  "Still think the ideal solution is less intercounty games, spaced further apart, with club games in between. It worked for a hundred odd years until the greed set in. Greed from management for players time, greed from public and the administrators for more games etc etc."
Agreed there. 3 group games going to the championship should have been offset by 2 or 3 games being taken from the league. The basic format there is divisions of 6 and 5, or the current divisions playing 4 regular league rounds only:
1. Keep the divisions of 8.
2. All teams play 4 games against a team from 4 seeded brackets. 2 home and 2 away.
3. After 4 rounds, top 4 into league semi-finals, top 2 with home advantage. Bottom 4 into league relegation semi-finals, 5th and 6th with home advantage.
Notes: the league would just require 6 rounds, with 1 or 2 rest weekends. At a minimum it would create a rest weekend after the league and another rest weekend during the group stage or preliminary quarter-final time.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 18/04/2024 17:28:37    2538889

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Problem was it WASNT working any more.
Hence the CPA, "Fix the Fixtures" etc leading to the split season and certainty of club fixtures, no Co manager calling off club fixtures, no playing vl County Qtr.Final Friday, Semi Final Monday and Final Satutday as happened in a couple of Counties.
Burns will soon have the CPA back up and running after his throwaway comment the other day!!"
It was working until we had back doors, then qualifiers, then qualifiers for qualifiers in Round Robin form. Its not a serious solution by the way. I put that out there for the lads who want the AI finals back in September. The system we have currently is the best we have given the amount of games everyone wants.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 18/04/2024 17:41:32    2538898

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Replying To westmeathgaa11:  "People say that club championships should begin as soon as the county is knocked out, unfortunately nobody has a crystal ball to say for certain when a county will be knocked out. Club players deserve a definitive date at the beginning of the year, not a wait and see how far the county team go. Players, both club and county should be allowed to make this decision, not paid pundits and armchair fans of the county who don't darken a club ground. If you ask players they love how it is. County players can even take a weeks holidays abroad between county exit and club championship now.

I know of clubs in our county who had to train at 5.30 pm weekday in build up to knockout stages as they have no light facilities"
I thinks you can easily predict when a county will be finished.

Dublin, Kerry, Derry can plan now for a semi final
Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone can plan for a q finals with one having to delay their club championships if they make the semi
Armagh, Cavan, Managhan, Roscommon can plan for prelim qfinals

Louth, Westmeath, Clare, Meath can play from being knocked out in group stages

In tailteann cup, Down can plan for the finals
Laois and Fermanagh can plan for a semi
Kildare, Offaly, Sligo can plan for q finals
Leitrim, Wicklow and wexford can plan for prelim q finals
The rest can plan for group stage exit

The odd county might go one round further than the above but none will go two rounds further.

Make the club championship draw now.
Once a county exists the above, start the provincial club draw so clubs from Dublin, Derry, Kerry enter at semi final stage and go from there.

The above can give four more rest weeks in the championship season

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 18/04/2024 17:59:05    2538900

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I think given time Jarlath Burns will work out a solution to the current mess that is the football championship… he is a great forward thinking president which is great

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 18/04/2024 18:41:50    2538903

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Replying To Viking66:  "It was working until we had back doors, then qualifiers, then qualifiers for qualifiers in Round Robin form. Its not a serious solution by the way. I put that out there for the lads who want the AI finals back in September. The system we have currently is the best we have given the amount of games everyone wants."
It wasn't. A single championship game for half the teams in the country made no sense anymore, especially with the increased effort teams were putting in to it. That's literally why the back door was brought in.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 18/04/2024 18:50:51    2538905

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "It wasn't. A single championship game for half the teams in the country made no sense anymore, especially with the increased effort teams were putting in to it. That's literally why the back door was brought in."
It was. But is it really better? You can lose twice and still win an all-Ireland now. Yes there are more championship games but there isn't the same bite any more until you get to knockout. No jeopardy.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 18/04/2024 21:22:40    2538923

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "I thinks you can easily predict when a county will be finished.

Dublin, Kerry, Derry can plan now for a semi final
Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone can plan for a q finals with one having to delay their club championships if they make the semi
Armagh, Cavan, Managhan, Roscommon can plan for prelim qfinals

Louth, Westmeath, Clare, Meath can play from being knocked out in group stages

In tailteann cup, Down can plan for the finals
Laois and Fermanagh can plan for a semi
Kildare, Offaly, Sligo can plan for q finals
Leitrim, Wicklow and wexford can plan for prelim q finals
The rest can plan for group stage exit

The odd county might go one round further than the above but none will go two rounds further.

Make the club championship draw now.
Once a county exists the above, start the provincial club draw so clubs from Dublin, Derry, Kerry enter at semi final stage and go from there.

The above can give four more rest weeks in the championship season"
Why should clubs from more successful intercounty counties get a bye? That's very unfair.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 18/04/2024 21:24:07    2538924

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "I thinks you can easily predict when a county will be finished.

Dublin, Kerry, Derry can plan now for a semi final
Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone can plan for a q finals with one having to delay their club championships if they make the semi
Armagh, Cavan, Managhan, Roscommon can plan for prelim qfinals

Louth, Westmeath, Clare, Meath can play from being knocked out in group stages

In tailteann cup, Down can plan for the finals
Laois and Fermanagh can plan for a semi
Kildare, Offaly, Sligo can plan for q finals
Leitrim, Wicklow and wexford can plan for prelim q finals
The rest can plan for group stage exit

The odd county might go one round further than the above but none will go two rounds further.

Make the club championship draw now.
Once a county exists the above, start the provincial club draw so clubs from Dublin, Derry, Kerry enter at semi final stage and go from there.

The above can give four more rest weeks in the championship season"
Don't know if anybody's ever told you, but there's another sport in the GAA too, called hurling......

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 18/04/2024 23:45:29    2538949

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "It wasn't. A single championship game for half the teams in the country made no sense anymore, especially with the increased effort teams were putting in to it. That's literally why the back door was brought in."
The qualifiers wasn't the only way to give teams a better championship.

The qualifiers were terrible for scheduling around but we don't have them anymore and maybe we could find a better schedule.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 19/04/2024 10:04:36    2538970

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GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 19/04/2024 10:38:16    2538982

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The qualifiers wasn't the only way to give teams a better championship.

The qualifiers were terrible for scheduling around but we don't have them anymore and maybe we could find a better schedule."
My point wasn't about whether the qualifiers were the best solution or not, it's that the original format was past its sell-by date. Which it was.
Teams were putting in much a bigger effort, training for months and for half of them, it was all over after one game.
It was the first effort at ensuring that teams got more than one championship game.
Anyone suggesting we should go back to the old system of straight knockout is talking nonsense in my opinion.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 19/04/2024 13:31:08    2539030

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "My point wasn't about whether the qualifiers were the best solution or not, it's that the original format was past its sell-by date. Which it was.
Teams were putting in much a bigger effort, training for months and for half of them, it was all over after one game.
It was the first effort at ensuring that teams got more than one championship game.
Anyone suggesting we should go back to the old system of straight knockout is talking nonsense in my opinion."
As with a lot of these things there's always a middle ground.

I mean look at the group stage for the football championship, do we in all honesty need that many games to go from 16 teams down to 4? Teams potentially playing 5 games to go from 16 teams down to 4!

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 19/04/2024 15:35:02    2539069

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "My point wasn't about whether the qualifiers were the best solution or not, it's that the original format was past its sell-by date. Which it was.
Teams were putting in much a bigger effort, training for months and for half of them, it was all over after one game.
It was the first effort at ensuring that teams got more than one championship game.
Anyone suggesting we should go back to the old system of straight knockout is talking nonsense in my opinion."
That's the beauty of Championship football… the best system is if you loose you are gone.. end off.. The current format takes away from the possibility of an upset or any jeopardy for the strongest teams… What use are extra games to the weaker counties.. get two whacking instead of one while increasing the cost to their county boards in the full knowledge they haven't a snow balls chance in hell of winning any Championship… The same teams will end up at the latter end of the Championship every year regardless of what system so they would be better off going back to a straight knockout thus reducing the number of games and cutting down on the cost to already cash strapped counties…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 20/04/2024 13:00:49    2539211

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "That's the beauty of Championship football… the best system is if you loose you are gone.. end off.. The current format takes away from the possibility of an upset or any jeopardy for the strongest teams… What use are extra games to the weaker counties.. get two whacking instead of one while increasing the cost to their county boards in the full knowledge they haven't a snow balls chance in hell of winning any Championship… The same teams will end up at the latter end of the Championship every year regardless of what system so they would be better off going back to a straight knockout thus reducing the number of games and cutting down on the cost to already cash strapped counties…"
The football is now similar to the ill-conceived hurling qualifier groups.

For those of us from Dublin all that meant mostly was four ritual humiliations rather than one. Happy days.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 20/04/2024 13:57:34    2539219

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "That's the beauty of Championship football… the best system is if you loose you are gone.. end off.. The current format takes away from the possibility of an upset or any jeopardy for the strongest teams… What use are extra games to the weaker counties.. get two whacking instead of one while increasing the cost to their county boards in the full knowledge they haven't a snow balls chance in hell of winning any Championship… The same teams will end up at the latter end of the Championship every year regardless of what system so they would be better off going back to a straight knockout thus reducing the number of games and cutting down on the cost to already cash strapped counties…"
The league is a good balanced format though and getting good crowds. Leagues or group stages are better for the games to training ratio.
EXAMPLE ALL-IRELAND CHAMPIONSHIP 12
Derry - semi-finals
Dublin - semi-finals
Kerry - quarter-finals
Mayo - quarter-finals
Tyrone - quarter-finals
Galway - quarter-finals
Donegal
Armagh
Roscommon
Monaghan
Cavan
Cork - relegation
If the above was a merger of league and championship, there should be a good battle for top 2, top 4 and avoiding 12th.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 20/04/2024 16:50:00    2539238

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Replying To tearintom:  "As with a lot of these things there's always a middle ground.

I mean look at the group stage for the football championship, do we in all honesty need that many games to go from 16 teams down to 4? Teams potentially playing 5 games to go from 16 teams down to 4!"
Your right but the people still wanting Sept AI finals don't do middle ground, they want to have their cake and eat it.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 21/04/2024 01:13:58    2539423

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Your right but the people still wanting Sept AI finals don't do middle ground, they want to have their cake and eat it."
The middle ground should be moving everything month later. All-Ireland finals at the end of August. Club championships starting at the beginning of September. All-Ireland club finals in February. Allianz leagues starting at the end of February. Championship from May to August. Club players can hopefully enjoy some holiday time around July and August, and be ready to go in September. Same for any third level students going away for the summer.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 21/04/2024 12:33:24    2539509

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The middle ground should be moving everything month later. All-Ireland finals at the end of August. Club championships starting at the beginning of September. All-Ireland club finals in February. Allianz leagues starting at the end of February. Championship from May to August. Club players can hopefully enjoy some holiday time around July and August, and be ready to go in September. Same for any third level students going away for the summer."
That doesn't work.

You need 12 weekends minimum to play county championship in a dual county.

When does Provincial and All Ireland club begin to get played.

The timing of the rigid split season is almost the only way it can be because of how long provincial and All Ireland club take.

The workable alternatives would be Provincial and All Ireland club starting in January and finishing at the earliest on St Patrick's Day, which is really tight and would involve some fixtures very early in the year and there being uncertainty around venue availability. You'd be talking intercounty starting in the last week of March and needing to have a smaller footprint than it has currently.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 23/04/2024 09:54:46    2540051

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Some part of me thinks that too much is trying to be done centrally and it's also taking up too much of a footprint.

You could have a good championship played over 14 or 15 weeks with finals ending in September that's 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8.

You could have All Ireland club be determined also. Maybe 1st weekend of March for semifinals and St Patrick's day for the final and then have nothing else predetermined centrally.

Leave it to Provincial councils in cooperation with county boards to draw up their calendars otherwise.

There are different challenges and traditions in different parts of the country and to try to structure everything centrally is maybe a fool's errand.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 23/04/2024 11:14:58    2540078

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