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How can the Cork hurling champions be so off the pace against the Waterford champions ?? The Kerry champions would put up a better show !

OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 652 - 05/11/2023 20:36:25    2511633

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Replying To OpenStand:  "How can the Cork hurling champions be so off the pace against the Waterford champions ?? The Kerry champions would put up a better show !"
O'Grady did not sound optimistic at all before the game. Couldn't help himself boasting that the Barrs team he was on and others were way better than anything now! He's probably right. 14 years since the great Newtownshandrum team last won it, and before them Midleton in 1987.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2420 - 05/11/2023 22:29:40    2511652

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Nobody mentioning Kilcormac-Killoughy in Leinster, they cannot be ruled out and I would rate them as possibly equal to Na Fianna as they have had a few decent runs in Leinster up to a few years ago and now have Adam Screeney up front, a really talented young fellow. Also we'll find out a lot about Naas's progress as I think they'll get a belly full of it against Camross. O'Loughlin Gaels weren't that impressive against a depleted Ballyhale team and might be just happy to settle for their own championship this year. However they should be fresher than Mount Leinster Rangers who won their championship weeks ago. A win for either team here could rekindle ambitions. Also its ..it or get off the pot for the Wexford representatives, Naomh Eanna and with Ballyhale gone Wexford representatives should be normally be eying an opportunity to cash in but I fancy Kilcormac-Killoughy to win this one. Raharney will test Na Fianna but probably won't beat them and probably this is the weaker half of the draw. Na Fianna should make the final but for newcomers to succeed in any championship they need to have all personnel on board and I think will probably miss Donal Burke too much.
I'll be bold and say Kilcormac-Killoughy.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1058 - 06/11/2023 13:12:29    2511742

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Replying To MillerX:  "Nobody mentioning Kilcormac-Killoughy in Leinster, they cannot be ruled out and I would rate them as possibly equal to Na Fianna as they have had a few decent runs in Leinster up to a few years ago and now have Adam Screeney up front, a really talented young fellow. Also we'll find out a lot about Naas's progress as I think they'll get a belly full of it against Camross. O'Loughlin Gaels weren't that impressive against a depleted Ballyhale team and might be just happy to settle for their own championship this year. However they should be fresher than Mount Leinster Rangers who won their championship weeks ago. A win for either team here could rekindle ambitions. Also its ..it or get off the pot for the Wexford representatives, Naomh Eanna and with Ballyhale gone Wexford representatives should be normally be eying an opportunity to cash in but I fancy Kilcormac-Killoughy to win this one. Raharney will test Na Fianna but probably won't beat them and probably this is the weaker half of the draw. Na Fianna should make the final but for newcomers to succeed in any championship they need to have all personnel on board and I think will probably miss Donal Burke too much.
I'll be bold and say Kilcormac-Killoughy."
I'd agree with pretty much all of that. I'm wondering will the long break stand against Gorey and MLR. I'd have KK as favourites against Gorey, but I do think if they win they could go all the way. Either way, KK and Gorey have been handed the toughest draw on paper, as they could end up having to beat the Kilkenny and Dublin champions as well as eachother to win it out. And that's not dismissing Raharney, MLR, Camrose and Naas who on their day could beat any of the other 4. Is Donal Burke definitely out for the whole championship? What's wrong with him? Big loss if true.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11240 - 06/11/2023 13:35:11    2511750

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Replying To Viking66:  "I'd agree with pretty much all of that. I'm wondering will the long break stand against Gorey and MLR. I'd have KK as favourites against Gorey, but I do think if they win they could go all the way. Either way, KK and Gorey have been handed the toughest draw on paper, as they could end up having to beat the Kilkenny and Dublin champions as well as eachother to win it out. And that's not dismissing Raharney, MLR, Camrose and Naas who on their day could beat any of the other 4. Is Donal Burke definitely out for the whole championship? What's wrong with him? Big loss if true."
Donal was named in final day programme. Didn't spot him and suspect it was to put him on the medals list!

Not heard any word of him coming back. That was bad injury in Thurles. Be huge loss to Dublin in particular if he is missing next year. Na Fianna with a fit Donal be real contenders no doubt.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2420 - 06/11/2023 14:28:04    2511763

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Donal was named in final day programme. Didn't spot him and suspect it was to put him on the medals list!

Not heard any word of him coming back. That was bad injury in Thurles. Be huge loss to Dublin in particular if he is missing next year. Na Fianna with a fit Donal be real contenders no doubt."
Would be a huge loss for club and county.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11240 - 06/11/2023 16:58:54    2511805

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Replying To OpenStand:  "How can the Cork hurling champions be so off the pace against the Waterford champions ?? The Kerry champions would put up a better show !"
Ballygunner are essentially an intercounty team at club level with the talent they have to pick from.

Sars, Midleton or any other Cork team have maybe 1 or 2 intercounty players and 1 or 2 former intercounty players who have retired. Most clubs in Cork, Tipp or Clare can't compete with Na Piarsiagh or Ballygunner or Ballyhale who would have much more current and former intercounty players.

Cork is especially affected due to the size of the county. I'd like to have seen the Imokilly (divisional) team from a few years ago take on Ballygunner. Now that would have been a good match.

MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 90 - 07/11/2023 09:22:51    2511844

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Hypothetical question:
Would a top club team ( ballygunner/ Na Fianna/ st Thomas etc etc) beat a McDonagh cup inter county hurling team? Christy ring level?
It probably resembles a Polar bear vs Lion match up somewhat but just a question for craic only…
Thoughts?

35OLT (USA) - Posts: 82 - 08/11/2023 22:44:14    2512181

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Replying To MrPBoylan:  "Ballygunner are essentially an intercounty team at club level with the talent they have to pick from.

Sars, Midleton or any other Cork team have maybe 1 or 2 intercounty players and 1 or 2 former intercounty players who have retired. Most clubs in Cork, Tipp or Clare can't compete with Na Piarsiagh or Ballygunner or Ballyhale who would have much more current and former intercounty players.

Cork is especially affected due to the size of the county. I'd like to have seen the Imokilly (divisional) team from a few years ago take on Ballygunner. Now that would have been a good match."
Funny you mention that. When the Rockies, Glen and Barrs were winning they had players from all over the place.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4253 - 09/11/2023 11:20:04    2512215

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Replying To 35OLT:  "Hypothetical question:
Would a top club team ( ballygunner/ Na Fianna/ st Thomas etc etc) beat a McDonagh cup inter county hurling team? Christy ring level?
It probably resembles a Polar bear vs Lion match up somewhat but just a question for craic only…
Thoughts?"
Sort of a how long is a piece of string question but you could argue ballygunner are better than Waterford at the moment.

The same was said about oulart here in the mid 00s.

In short I think the answer is yes

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2548 - 09/11/2023 12:46:30    2512246

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Funny you mention that. When the Rockies, Glen and Barrs were winning they had players from all over the place."
Isn't that a trait of all good county teams? They are seldom dominated by one club, and when they are they are usually well down pecking order - Lisbellew/Fermanagh for example.

kilkenny, Galway, Tipp, Cork teams were always good spread even when they had a very strong individual club.

Dublin's best team was 2011 - 2015 and never more than 4 Cuala starters on a big day i can recall.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2420 - 09/11/2023 19:47:51    2512296

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Isn't that a trait of all good county teams? They are seldom dominated by one club, and when they are they are usually well down pecking order - Lisbellew/Fermanagh for example.

kilkenny, Galway, Tipp, Cork teams were always good spread even when they had a very strong individual club.

Dublin's best team was 2011 - 2015 and never more than 4 Cuala starters on a big day i can recall."
I think OTM meant Barrs, Glen and Rockies had players from all over Cork. Galway wouldn't have had a great spread over the years. Often the dominant team won it multiple times before someone else came and dominated.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11240 - 10/11/2023 10:28:03    2512322

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think OTM meant Barrs, Glen and Rockies had players from all over Cork. Galway wouldn't have had a great spread over the years. Often the dominant team won it multiple times before someone else came and dominated."
Galway teams would generally have had a good spread of club representation though? Even from some of the lesser lights like Scappataggle, That would be my perception. Wexford too? 1996 team had a good spread?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2420 - 10/11/2023 14:33:29    2512368

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think OTM meant Barrs, Glen and Rockies had players from all over Cork. Galway wouldn't have had a great spread over the years. Often the dominant team won it multiple times before someone else came and dominated."
And other counties, John O'Grady from Kerry, Tom Maher from Waterford, Frank Cummins from Kilkenny, John Meyler from Wexford, are among a few that come to mind. Just because there is a wide club representation on a team does not mean there are that many strong senior clubs in a county There about seventeen different clubs represented on the current Limerick Panel, but the number of serious contenders for Senior Honours in the county could be counted in one hand.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4253 - 10/11/2023 16:12:40    2512391

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "And other counties, John O'Grady from Kerry, Tom Maher from Waterford, Frank Cummins from Kilkenny, John Meyler from Wexford, are among a few that come to mind. Just because there is a wide club representation on a team does not mean there are that many strong senior clubs in a county There about seventeen different clubs represented on the current Limerick Panel, but the number of serious contenders for Senior Honours in the county could be counted in one hand."
Dublins best team 2011-2013 was dominated by 7 or 7 players from Ballyboden St Enda's. They were probably a better team in Dublin than the later Cuala team but failed to win out Leinster.

BlueBeret (Dublin) - Posts: 53 - 11/11/2023 20:09:31    2512464

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Replying To BlueBeret:  "Dublins best team 2011-2013 was dominated by 7 or 7 players from Ballyboden St Enda's. They were probably a better team in Dublin than the later Cuala team but failed to win out Leinster."
If Ballyboden had Con O'Callaghan hurling for them they would have.

He was unmarkable for Cuala in some games.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 698 - 11/11/2023 23:13:32    2512482

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Sort of a how long is a piece of string question but you could argue ballygunner are better than Waterford at the moment.

The same was said about oulart here in the mid 00s.

In short I think the answer is yes"
Carlow county hurlers drew with Ballyhale in a challenge match early last January en route to Ballyhale winning the All Ireland v Dunloy.

Laois are playing Joe McDonagh next year, not a hope in hell would any club team in Ireland beat Laois.

Christy Ring teams yes, the standard of hurling drops significantly from Joe McDonagh level down to Christy Ring cup level.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 698 - 11/11/2023 23:20:18    2512483

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Replying To Viking66:  "Were they all starters?"
Ballyhale All Ireland winning team v Dunloy in 2023

Ronan Corcoran midfield, Joey Cuddihy wing forward & Brian Cody didn't start due to shoulder injury.

Ballyhale Shamrocks team

Dean Mason, Brian Butler, Joey Holden, Killian Corcoran (0-1), Evan Shefflin (0-1), Richie Reid, Darragh Corcoran, Ronan Corcoran (0-1), Paddy Mullen (0-1), Joey Cuddihy (0-1), TJ Reid (0-5, 0-465), Eoin Cody (1-5), Eoin Kenneally (0-1), Colin Fennelly (0-2), Niall Shortall

Subs: Brian Cody (0-1) for Niall Shortall (50), Darren Mullen for Killian Corcoran (58)

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 698 - 11/11/2023 23:27:51    2512484

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Replying To 35OLT:  "Hypothetical question:
Would a top club team ( ballygunner/ Na Fianna/ st Thomas etc etc) beat a McDonagh cup inter county hurling team? Christy ring level?
It probably resembles a Polar bear vs Lion match up somewhat but just a question for craic only…
Thoughts?"
I don't think they would. Maybe out of 10 matches the Club Team would win 1 or 2.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2084 - 12/11/2023 01:30:03    2512486

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Replying To BlueBeret:  "Dublins best team 2011-2013 was dominated by 7 or 7 players from Ballyboden St Enda's. They were probably a better team in Dublin than the later Cuala team but failed to win out Leinster."
Weren't the Galway Senior Club hurling champions supposed to move into one of either Leinster or Munster provincial club championship as part of their deal to get their County Minors into Leinster ?

Corner flag (Galway) - Posts: 36 - 12/11/2023 07:47:15    2512488

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