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Replying To zinny:  "FOX is the most watched TV news station in the USA. So if all these legitimate stories were being suppressed was FOX running them? if so they were not suppressed. The US has plenty of national media outlets that have different points of view and I would find it impossible to believe that anything could be suppressed in todays US media. Facebook and Twitter are not media outlets and their challenge is to ensure that their platforms are not used to spread lies and hate."
Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54    2441336

Link

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1566 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07    2441342

Link

Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2935 - 20/09/2022 18:49:45    2441354

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?"
They have absolutely been indoctrinated. Morally the partition of Ireland is wrong and is a relic of colonialism. Either they have never read a history book or they choose to turn a blind eye to this. Also economically living standards in the Republic are far higher than in the North (look at the difference in benefits for instance). The only tangible benefit is the NHS. In the early 1900s the North was the most prosperous region of Ireland shipbuilding etc but since partition that has totally flipped especially since the Celtic tiger.

A Socialist 32 County Republic would really help Ireland. Like if you capped the maximum possible wage of an individual at €60,000 then you could make the lowest salary of a full time at €40,000 thus reducing inequality in society and the need for food banks. It would stop greed and lead to a fairer distribution of resources. Also the British would be gone their imperialism has held Ireland back from reaching its full potential.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1566 - 20/09/2022 19:30:49    2441361

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile."
Well Trump did attempt a right wing coup and he does have a partial media supporting him aswell who forgive or just plainly ignore any of his questionable antics.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 690 - 20/09/2022 19:37:05    2441362

Link

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24

They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

It all depends on the parliamentary arithmetic, as in any political system. FF in particular are a bunch of chancers who will do anything to get a few bums on ministerial seats, so I wouldn't be so sure that it can't happen. Not so long ago we were told that an FF/FG coalition was impossible.

FF/FG have been playing the "greens under the bed" card for the last few years, since SF became a real competitor to them, conveniently ignoring: (1) the origins of their own parties; and (2) that those same parties have been championing SF's involvement in parliamentary politics/government in the North in the past three decades. Utter hypocrisy.

Again: as long as FF/FG prioritize the needs of vested interests over those of a growing proportion of the Irish people, they will continue to decline.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 21/09/2022 09:19:46    2441379

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "
Replying To KillingFields:  "Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?"
They have absolutely been indoctrinated. Morally the partition of Ireland is wrong and is a relic of colonialism. Either they have never read a history book or they choose to turn a blind eye to this. Also economically living standards in the Republic are far higher than in the North (look at the difference in benefits for instance). The only tangible benefit is the NHS. In the early 1900s the North was the most prosperous region of Ireland shipbuilding etc but since partition that has totally flipped especially since the Celtic tiger.

A Socialist 32 County Republic would really help Ireland. Like if you capped the maximum possible wage of an individual at €60,000 then you could make the lowest salary of a full time at €40,000 thus reducing inequality in society and the need for food banks. It would stop greed and lead to a fairer distribution of resources. Also the British would be gone their imperialism has held Ireland back from reaching its full potential."
That's the problem with socialism though. It all sounds great when discussed as an abstract concept. I agree with you that it's a much fairer system but it would be nigh on impossible to actually implement. Simply put, I think we are far too far down the capitalist road to ever realistically turn back. There are too many ultra-wealthy individuals, banks & corporations wielding massive influence who would never let it happen. Short of there being some sort of drastic, military coup d'etat (and we don't want to go there!) in the country who could turn the whole thing upside down I can't see it.

The best that can be done I think is to chip away at the wealthiest corporations with taxes and to redistribute the wealth as equitably as possible.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8281 - 21/09/2022 09:23:06    2441380

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "They're a well-oiled machine when it comes to elections though. They just need the electorate to believe enough spin to tick the box that day. FF and FG will be at the same grabbing old men and women in from the country that voted on party lines for generations. The unsocial media splash the week of election telling you what they 'achieved'. The local fliers telling you about the safe parking initiatives they've implemented outside schools in the constituency. A few prominent faces on the telly telling you Sinn Féin's plans are ridiculous. I think it's nearly easier to portray yourself as a credible candidate in 2022 telling half-truths on unsocial media to gullible potential voters.. In the 70s shoe leather was worn when TDs went on the campaign. Pressing the flesh going door to door. Canvassers standing on pillars outside churches on Sundays telling the after mass crowd you how many roads their man built and sure vote him back in. There's not many voters in churches any more. A nice photo for the poster, a bit of blas for Facebook and Twitter, get in a heated debate on TV and you're half way to Kildare Street. I still admire any of them that get involved. Would rather have them anyday over the man in the street that said he didn't vote because sure aren't they all corrupt."
Well yes and no. Yes in the sense that they have a lot of cumainn and constituency volunteers and whatnot. They also have a large proportion of the mainstream media on their side, between INM, The Irish Times (who have gone into hysterics since the last general election), RTÉ and the British-owned media outlets.

No in the sense that the segment of the population who you would expect to be influenced heavily by social media (the under 40s) are turning away from them in large numbers.

Ireland does have significant corruption issues and I wouldn't personally admire many domestic politicians, it's kinda a least-worst option scenario a lot of the time.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 21/09/2022 09:27:43    2441381

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile."
That's straight out of the Trump playbook of "fake news" and "all of the media is against us." Wasn't it terrible of the media to report on his appalling reaction to what happened in Charlotte? Wasn't it terrible of the media to report on his gross incompetence in the face of Covid? Wasn't it terrible of the media to highlight his role in the storming of the Capitol? These are just a few examples of the behaviour that very clearly exhibited the fact that he was unfit for office. He is a pathological liar. He is an immense threat to democracy in America because of his propagation and perpetuation of the lie that he lost the election. Millions swayed by Trump's supporters in the mainstream media and by social media commentary believe him. This has completely undermined trust in the democratic institutions that were so hard won by the Founding Fathers. Those institutions have stood the test of time and hopefully they will resist Trump's onslaught. Trump's self serving onslaught is ongoing and is very dangerous. You are not comparing like with like. Krystal Matthews is a state politician. Trump is a former president who has an iron grip on the Republican Party.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5872 - 21/09/2022 10:16:48    2441383

Link

Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "
Replying To KillingFields:  "Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?"
They have absolutely been indoctrinated. Morally the partition of Ireland is wrong and is a relic of colonialism. Either they have never read a history book or they choose to turn a blind eye to this. Also economically living standards in the Republic are far higher than in the North (look at the difference in benefits for instance). The only tangible benefit is the NHS. In the early 1900s the North was the most prosperous region of Ireland shipbuilding etc but since partition that has totally flipped especially since the Celtic tiger.

A Socialist 32 County Republic would really help Ireland. Like if you capped the maximum possible wage of an individual at €60,000 then you could make the lowest salary of a full time at €40,000 thus reducing inequality in society and the need for food banks. It would stop greed and lead to a fairer distribution of resources. Also the British would be gone their imperialism has held Ireland back from reaching its full potential."
I don't know myself, but could you give a figure of how much money the government would lose in tax if they decided to cap the wage at 60k.
I'm a postman and many of my colleagues who do alot of overtime would earn over 60k a year. Would you ban them from doing overtime then or what?
Would doctors, employers etc be banned from earning that money too? I'm sure they'd be happy to take their business elsewhere if your plan was implemented.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 21/09/2022 10:40:58    2441389

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "
Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "[quote=KillingFields:  "Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?"
They have absolutely been indoctrinated. Morally the partition of Ireland is wrong and is a relic of colonialism. Either they have never read a history book or they choose to turn a blind eye to this. Also economically living standards in the Republic are far higher than in the North (look at the difference in benefits for instance). The only tangible benefit is the NHS. In the early 1900s the North was the most prosperous region of Ireland shipbuilding etc but since partition that has totally flipped especially since the Celtic tiger.

A Socialist 32 County Republic would really help Ireland. Like if you capped the maximum possible wage of an individual at €60,000 then you could make the lowest salary of a full time at €40,000 thus reducing inequality in society and the need for food banks. It would stop greed and lead to a fairer distribution of resources. Also the British would be gone their imperialism has held Ireland back from reaching its full potential."
That's the problem with socialism though. It all sounds great when discussed as an abstract concept. I agree with you that it's a much fairer system but it would be nigh on impossible to actually implement. Simply put, I think we are far too far down the capitalist road to ever realistically turn back. There are too many ultra-wealthy individuals, banks & corporations wielding massive influence who would never let it happen. Short of there being some sort of drastic, military coup d'etat (and we don't want to go there!) in the country who could turn the whole thing upside down I can't see it.

The best that can be done I think is to chip away at the wealthiest corporations with taxes and to redistribute the wealth as equitably as possible."]Yeah it would be very hard to implement but if there is a will there is a way. You are probably right that elites etc would always block it from happening. A Universal Basic Income (UBI) say €25,000 -€30,000 would be easy to implement if an Irish government had the will to do so. UBI has been trialled in Finland with several positive societal developments; the basic income in Finland led to a small increase in employment, significantly boosted multiple measures of the recipients' well-being, and reinforced positive individual and societal feedback loops. UBI would provide individuals with at least a moderate standard of living.

I watched a show about Dan Breen recently on TG4 and it said that Irish freedom fighters didn't fight for poverty and unemployment but to improve the lives of all Irish people. Breen described how life under British rule made people "serfs". The poverty in Dublin under British rule was stark. A lot of people have a good standard of living and independence has improved the lives of Irish people no doubt but some people have been let behind and they must be helped in different economic times. Also a United Ireland must be achieved as the rebels of 1916 did not fight for to establish a 26 county Republic, but a 32 county Republic.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1566 - 21/09/2022 13:07:52    2441407

Link

Trump is a dreadful person. It's beyond belief that he ended up where he did. He is part of a wider problem in the world. You can't call out Trump or Johnson or a number of other idiots without being called a soft lefty, that's a bigger problem. My politics are slightly left of centre but I would call out some of the rubbish that goes on from the left also.

Trump still has a certain amount of sway in the party but he doesn't have an iron grip at all. Poll numbers are often skewed towards a certain demographic. The chief republicans don't want Trump to run, for good reason, he won't win.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7368 - 21/09/2022 13:17:10    2441412

Link

Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "[quote=KillingFields:  "Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?"
They have absolutely been indoctrinated. Morally the partition of Ireland is wrong and is a relic of colonialism. Either they have never read a history book or they choose to turn a blind eye to this. Also economically living standards in the Republic are far higher than in the North (look at the difference in benefits for instance). The only tangible benefit is the NHS. In the early 1900s the North was the most prosperous region of Ireland shipbuilding etc but since partition that has totally flipped especially since the Celtic tiger.

A Socialist 32 County Republic would really help Ireland. Like if you capped the maximum possible wage of an individual at €60,000 then you could make the lowest salary of a full time at €40,000 thus reducing inequality in society and the need for food banks. It would stop greed and lead to a fairer distribution of resources. Also the British would be gone their imperialism has held Ireland back from reaching its full potential."
I don't know myself, but could you give a figure of how much money the government would lose in tax if they decided to cap the wage at 60k.
I'm a postman and many of my colleagues who do alot of overtime would earn over 60k a year. Would you ban them from doing overtime then or what?
Would doctors, employers etc be banned from earning that money too? I'm sure they'd be happy to take their business elsewhere if your plan was implemented."]Yeah the cap would be €60,000. If anyone was allowed to break the cap it wouldn't work because no one would adhere to it. Doctors/ employers would hopefully see the societal good it would do and put that that above their own interests. If they didn't they are very selfish. Like the fact they have a professional job would still be reflected in the fact they would earn €20,000 more than those in non professional jobs. Is it right that people have a lot more than they need while others can't even afford the basics?? The key issue is the level of income disparity between the have and have nots is too high and needs to be reduced. I am not an expert but there are many economists and experts who know what needs to be done to fundamentally reshape the economy in a fairer way.

The cap would have to be respected but no overtime for postal workers etc but such workers could be allowed to work a four day week for the same money.
Not sure of a figure the government would lose in taxes but it would be a good few billion but that could be made up by doubling corporation tax/ windfall taxes?? A four day week would also help with work/life balance and people's mental health and reduce stress and anxiety etc. The poor will not be worried about paying bills, people will have more free time etc so the Irish Government would save a lot of money in terms of the health budget which they could then reinvest in vital services.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1566 - 21/09/2022 13:28:42    2441413

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "Trump is a dreadful person. It's beyond belief that he ended up where he did. He is part of a wider problem in the world. You can't call out Trump or Johnson or a number of other idiots without being called a soft lefty, that's a bigger problem. My politics are slightly left of centre but I would call out some of the rubbish that goes on from the left also.

Trump still has a certain amount of sway in the party but he doesn't have an iron grip at all. Poll numbers are often skewed towards a certain demographic. The chief republicans don't want Trump to run, for good reason, he won't win."
Trump was born into a life of entitlement. Couple that with an narcissistic ego the size of the universe and you begin to understand the extent of how loathsome a character he is. There is a certain (perhaps unfair) stereotype of an American. You know the kind - overweight, convinced of their own superiority and a complete loudmouth. Basically Trump.

He is a threat to democracy in the US. I do not know how anyone could come to any other sort of conclusion after what happened during the Capitol Hill riots. What happens in he runs again and fails? He has been accustomed to getting his own way since the womb. In episodes of Reeling in the Years in the future our grandchildren will wonder in astonishment at how such a reprobate ever got near the White House in the first place.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8281 - 21/09/2022 13:48:25    2441418

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "
Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "[quote=KillingFields:  "Trump was able to capitalise on a general discontent, an understandable one too, with how mainstream politicians in America were managing the country, and I enjoyed watching him make the Bushes and Clintons et al squirm.
This won't happen in this country because no matter how bad it gets, and its going to get bad, ff and fg know that our populace will always give them enough votes to lead, which means that in our own way, we too must be at least a little brainwashed.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 10:44:37

Jeez you're a big trump apologist... He was able to capitalize on a general discontent and yes we are not going to see too much of a change in ireland but we are far from brainwashed. the huge changes in society and culture in this country in past few decades show that isnt true at all

Trump is the biggest threat to democracy in America since the foundation of the state. He was and remains a hugely corrosive and divisive figure who wields immense power in the Republican Party. No good can come from him.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5814 - 20/09/2022 11:04:51

Yep. he harnessed and built on the tea party section of the republicans and has very much widened the gap and differences between Left and Right

I'm not so sure about your analysis of voting trends in this country, FF and FG are struggling badly in the polls amongst the millennials and that means anyone under 40 these days. They need to make some inroads into the cost of living and housing or else they will be out on their backsides come the next general election.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2189 - 20/09/2022 11:58:24
They may struggle on polls but most likely will still be in power next time round as Sinn Fein wont get enough seats and few or no others will join them to make a government.

Census in the North on Thursday expected to show a Nationalist/ Catholic majority for the first time. United Ireland still not in sight in the short term as a sizeable 20%-25% of those of the Nationalist/ Catholic tradition has been indoctrinated into the British state. It was always thought that a Catholic/ Nationalist majority would mean a United Ireland but that no longer holds. It is fairly ironic and laughable that these former Nationalists are now propping up the state of those in Unionism who sought to make them second class citizens. Still will be a momentous development for Unionists to find themselves a minority in a state they created for that never to be the case. The Unionist state has gone forever at least.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 13:47:55
20-25% of Catholics havent been indoctrinated into British State. they simply see many of the benefits of British state system being far better than being in the republic.

Trump is not the greatest threat to democracy in American history ffs. Don't be so extreme.
The media has had an absolute shocker throughout the course of his candidacy and presidency. The pro Clinton /Biden leanings of all but a few stations was like something you'd see in a 3rd world country,with twitter, Facebook, cnn etc suppressing stories that might hurt Biden in the run up to the 2020 election. Outrageous carry on for a so called democracy.
A partial media is a far greater threat to democracy than Trump.
Also, any politician outside of the centre is by their very nature divisive,he's no less divisive than Krystal Matthews (look up her speech on getting elected), except for his profile.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 14:12:30
Nonsense.
Trump was totally the worst threat to democracy considering his actions, isolationism, etc etc


Well to use one example, in the aftermath of Bidens victory, I heard many people say that its great to have a man in the white house who respects women, when in fact numerous women have accused Biden of sexual assault.
Trump has been accused of being a homophobe, when actually he's the first president to ever enter office supporting same sex marriage (Obama started supporting it after getting elected after his army of pr advisers told him to).
I could be here all day giving other examples, the laptop is another one, if that was one of trumps sons it'd be 1000 times bigger a story.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1316 - 20/09/2022 15:56:54
numerous women? maybe there were allegations but with some of them they were proven to be false.
Trump is far from a big supporter of gay rights.

Definitely there should be a move to 32 County Socialist Republic within the next few years. The cost of living crisis shows there needs to be a big redistribution of wealth on this island. A lot of people are really struggling while others have a lot more than they need. Everyone should have a half decent quality of life and we need a Republic that's wants the best for all its citizens and not just "elites". Also Covid highlighted the need for all Ireland approach going forward.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1549 - 20/09/2022 16:50:07

What exactly do you see as a 32 county socialist republic? and what would it bring to ireland and its people?
how would you redistribute wealth anyway?"
They have absolutely been indoctrinated. Morally the partition of Ireland is wrong and is a relic of colonialism. Either they have never read a history book or they choose to turn a blind eye to this. Also economically living standards in the Republic are far higher than in the North (look at the difference in benefits for instance). The only tangible benefit is the NHS. In the early 1900s the North was the most prosperous region of Ireland shipbuilding etc but since partition that has totally flipped especially since the Celtic tiger.

A Socialist 32 County Republic would really help Ireland. Like if you capped the maximum possible wage of an individual at €60,000 then you could make the lowest salary of a full time at €40,000 thus reducing inequality in society and the need for food banks. It would stop greed and lead to a fairer distribution of resources. Also the British would be gone their imperialism has held Ireland back from reaching its full potential."
That's the problem with socialism though. It all sounds great when discussed as an abstract concept. I agree with you that it's a much fairer system but it would be nigh on impossible to actually implement. Simply put, I think we are far too far down the capitalist road to ever realistically turn back. There are too many ultra-wealthy individuals, banks & corporations wielding massive influence who would never let it happen. Short of there being some sort of drastic, military coup d'etat (and we don't want to go there!) in the country who could turn the whole thing upside down I can't see it.

The best that can be done I think is to chip away at the wealthiest corporations with taxes and to redistribute the wealth as equitably as possible."]It would be no harm if we had a socialist government even for one term. Right some of the wrongs or at least slow down the country's decline into being merely a business opportunity for greedy "patriots".

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 11961 - 21/09/2022 14:21:08    2441424

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "Trump is a dreadful person. It's beyond belief that he ended up where he did. He is part of a wider problem in the world. You can't call out Trump or Johnson or a number of other idiots without being called a soft lefty, that's a bigger problem. My politics are slightly left of centre but I would call out some of the rubbish that goes on from the left also.

Trump still has a certain amount of sway in the party but he doesn't have an iron grip at all. Poll numbers are often skewed towards a certain demographic. The chief republicans don't want Trump to run, for good reason, he won't win."
Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell have pulled back from their positions articulated immediately after the storming of the Capitol. They called out Trump. They have stepped back and now no longer unequivocally lay the blame at Trump's four. They are afraid to antagonise Trump. They don't want Trump yo run but they don't publicly oppose him because they are afraid that such an act would split the party. They are also afraid that Trump souls launch a campaign as an independent were he to fail to get the nomination in 2024. Trump is by far the most influential figure in the Republican Party. Try telling him he wouldn't win. The chief Republicans don't want Trump to run but they can't stop him.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5872 - 21/09/2022 14:43:24    2441428

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Replying To Greengrass:  "That's straight out of the Trump playbook of "fake news" and "all of the media is against us." Wasn't it terrible of the media to report on his appalling reaction to what happened in Charlotte? Wasn't it terrible of the media to report on his gross incompetence in the face of Covid? Wasn't it terrible of the media to highlight his role in the storming of the Capitol? These are just a few examples of the behaviour that very clearly exhibited the fact that he was unfit for office. He is a pathological liar. He is an immense threat to democracy in America because of his propagation and perpetuation of the lie that he lost the election. Millions swayed by Trump's supporters in the mainstream media and by social media commentary believe him. This has completely undermined trust in the democratic institutions that were so hard won by the Founding Fathers. Those institutions have stood the test of time and hopefully they will resist Trump's onslaught. Trump's self serving onslaught is ongoing and is very dangerous. You are not comparing like with like. Krystal Matthews is a state politician. Trump is a former president who has an iron grip on the Republican Party."
I never said all the media is against him, I said most of it is, and I was right to say that because its true. You disliking him doesn't make that right, or untrue. If you even half believed that stuff you posted just now, you wouldn't be trying to excuse the media bias.
Put any politician under the type of microscope that you put Trump under avd you'd believe they're unfit for office.
Don't be so naive and speak as if these democratic institutions you seem to have so much faith in are standing the test of time.
Never in my lifetime anyways have the ruling classes been so detached from the people they claim to represent, and I personally don't believe fhr one moment that the politicians we vote in go into office wanting to fight for us.
There is a general discontent throughout the Western world, and a widening gap between our leaders and their people, with us citizens having almost no say in how our societies are run.
Trump is a direct result of what happens when "mainstream" politicians behave like this.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 21/09/2022 14:48:20    2441430

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Trump is a dreadful person. It's beyond belief that he ended up where he did. He is part of a wider problem in the world. You can't call out Trump or Johnson or a number of other idiots without being called a soft lefty, that's a bigger problem. My politics are slightly left of centre but I would call out some of the rubbish that goes on from the left also.

Trump still has a certain amount of sway in the party but he doesn't have an iron grip at all. Poll numbers are often skewed towards a certain demographic. The chief republicans don't want Trump to run, for good reason, he won't win."
The same republicans didn't want him to run in '20 either, not because they believe he won't win (whoever runs in' 24 for the republicans will win), but because most of them are effectively Democrats, and didn't agree with his populist message.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 21/09/2022 14:51:26    2441432

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Replying To Galway9801:  "The same republicans didn't want him to run in '20 either, not because they believe he won't win (whoever runs in' 24 for the republicans will win), but because most of them are effectively Democrats, and didn't agree with his populist message."
2016 you mean? And he was an unknown quantity in 16. He is far less popular now than he was losing an election to Biden in 20. That is the difference. Top republicans quietly backed him pre 20 election, that isn't the case now. Whoever runs for the Republicans will win is just a daft statement.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7368 - 21/09/2022 15:29:03    2441435

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Replying To Galway9801:  "The same republicans didn't want him to run in '20 either, not because they believe he won't win (whoever runs in' 24 for the republicans will win), but because most of them are effectively Democrats, and didn't agree with his populist message."
Are you for real?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5872 - 21/09/2022 15:44:09    2441443

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