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Carlow GAA thread

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Replying To carlo:  "Eire og v Rathvilly/Pal
Decent Championship but realistically only 3 teams can win the senior. Since Old Leighlin last won it in 2013 no one outside the big 3 have won it or will win it in the near future I'm afraid"
Why are the blues, Tintyland and Old Leoghlin not in the top 6, why is St. Patrick's almost non threatening for senior status.
St. Patrick's are based in the 2nd biggest town in the county with an ever increasing population, where as Rathvilly their near neighbours is a rural village more or less, it beggars believe.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3049 - 14/10/2024 13:07:50    2574789

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Replying To supersub15:  "Why are the blues, Tintyland and Old Leoghlin not in the top 6, why is St. Patrick's almost non threatening for senior status.
St. Patrick's are based in the 2nd biggest town in the county with an ever increasing population, where as Rathvilly their near neighbours is a rural village more or less, it beggars believe."
Well, that's a question I have posed here before. The Rathvilly area has a population of about 1,500. Clonmore's hinterland is about 1,200 and Tullow are pulling from over 5,000. Grange's pick would be something similar to Rathvilly's, judging on primary school numbers.

So why have Rathvilly consistently been a top senior club for 40 years, while the other three have oscillated between intermediate and junior?

Clearly Rathvilly people are not a genetically superior race, compared to those in neighboring parishes. So the only answer would be coaching and organization. Maybe other clubs could learn from them?

Old Leighlin are a bad example. I know they pull some out of Ballinabranna and the other Leighlin, but their natural pick is about 700 people. They are definitely doing better than they should be, on paper. Tinryland's nominal player supply also isn't much bigger than Rathvilly's (and yes I know they get some from town also) and they are hardly a failing club. Have been in two county finals in three years. The O'Hanrahan's seem to have been squeezed out by Eire Og and Palatine in the town. Sad to see their predicament, but if Eire Og weren't gobbling up, and then spitting out, so many youngsters you'd imagine the Blues and Asca would both be stronger. And, as posted before, the county would ultimately benefit.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 14/10/2024 18:39:15    2574913

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Replying To CARPS:  "Okay then. Compare it to Borris, Ballymurphy and Rathanna.

That was also two football clubs and a hurling club merging.

Look at the success they have had since.

My main point here is that hurling in Carlow town is struggling under the current setup, where you have one poor intermediate hurling club feeding off five competing football teams.

Carlow Town Hurling Club has no real identity, because almost all its members have (sometimes bitterly) opposing football loyalties.

Thus, some sort of radical solution is needed.

Such as the two struggling football clubs merging with the struggling hurling club.

Very open to other ideas, if you have them.

Or you don't do constructive thought?"
Maybe someone can correct me if wrong, but
I see on X that MLR have won 5 of the last 6 minor hurling championships! In that case is it likely they've won 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24.. 10 out of last 13?
Should we not all be tipping down their and see how they set up their structures as it's by far ahead of any other club in either code..

Carlowtothecore1 (Carlow) - Posts: 46 - 14/10/2024 23:25:48    2574961

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Replying To Carlowtothecore1:  "Maybe someone can correct me if wrong, but
I see on X that MLR have won 5 of the last 6 minor hurling championships! In that case is it likely they've won 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24.. 10 out of last 13?
Should we not all be tipping down their and see how they set up their structures as it's by far ahead of any other club in either code.."
Numbers game really though isn't it, while MLR play football underage they don't really pay much attention to it, they stick mostly to hurling. on top of that there are not many teams in the A so much so teams were drafted in from other counties this year to give more games, I think only three carlow clubs could win the A. They also have a very big area to choose from in comparison to St Mullins. Carlow town and Setanta mix together to get a team and Burren Rangers also have a big area to pick from when you factor in the number of football teams they have to contend with but both very much sharing time with football clubs, more power to MLR, it shows what can happen when the community pull together and keep everyone involved. Pal are going down the same road with football and reaping the rewards underage

more4me (Carlow) - Posts: 106 - 15/10/2024 10:24:36    2574999

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Replying To Carlowtothecore1:  "Maybe someone can correct me if wrong, but
I see on X that MLR have won 5 of the last 6 minor hurling championships! In that case is it likely they've won 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24.. 10 out of last 13?
Should we not all be tipping down their and see how they set up their structures as it's by far ahead of any other club in either code.."
Absolutely, MLR are an amazing club. Their pick would be larger than Rathvilly's but barely half that of Tullow.

MLR and Rathvilly are both clubs to study.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 15/10/2024 10:42:42    2575005

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Replying To more4me:  "Numbers game really though isn't it, while MLR play football underage they don't really pay much attention to it, they stick mostly to hurling. on top of that there are not many teams in the A so much so teams were drafted in from other counties this year to give more games, I think only three carlow clubs could win the A. They also have a very big area to choose from in comparison to St Mullins. Carlow town and Setanta mix together to get a team and Burren Rangers also have a big area to pick from when you factor in the number of football teams they have to contend with but both very much sharing time with football clubs, more power to MLR, it shows what can happen when the community pull together and keep everyone involved. Pal are going down the same road with football and reaping the rewards underage"
MLR's entire catchment area is about the same as that of St Martin's/Burrin Rangers (at underage) and not much larger than that of Grange or Clonmore. It would be substantially smaller than that of Palatine, who only play one code.

St Mullins have fewer than half the numbers of MLR.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 15/10/2024 10:48:23    2575008

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St Patrick's are massively underachieving when you consider they have the town to themselves. They are probably the stand out club in that regard, not sure why they aren't doing better. Realistically they should be div 1 the whole the way up. They do have some good underage teams but it's a bit hit and miss
I think the issue in carlow town is a bit more complicated, demographics are playing a role there and the gaa is going to have to start focusing on migrant families or gaa will die out in urban areas. I think o hanrahans and asca should be joined up at juvenile I'd even go so far as adding tinryland into that to form a solid division 1 outfit all the way up. I think urban gaa clubs should be looking to form links with local soccer clubs. Palatine are getting a huge boost from benekerry school but also managing that influx of new players really well. If they win the 16s next week they will have achieved a clean sweep of juvenile titles. A clubs capacity to deal with increased numbers has to be there before you grow otherwise you will lose a lot of those players you bring in. I can't emphasise that enough. If you have 20 kids you will need 4-5 coaches with them. If you don't have the volunteers you are going to fail.
It would be interesting to see what % of the primary school in tullow are playing football, likewise asca school and Bishop foleys

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 15/10/2024 13:05:06    2575046

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Replying To CARPS:  "MLR's entire catchment area is about the same as that of St Martin's/Burrin Rangers (at underage) and not much larger than that of Grange or Clonmore. It would be substantially smaller than that of Palatine, who only play one code.

St Mullins have fewer than half the numbers of MLR."
I'd assume the numbers going to national school in a club catchment area is a better indicator of quality of work done.
Hard to see how Mlr would compete with carlow town / Satanta, Pal, Tinryland, Bagenalstown, Tullow with those numbers! Also Saint mullins have 4 schools to feed from if part of Graignamanagh is included, is this correct??
Wouldn't agree with the comment regards their approach to underage football as they compete very strong at minor and u20 level.. Thai minor team also won football only last Thursday.. so must be plenty of big balls kicked also..

Carlowtothecore1 (Carlow) - Posts: 46 - 15/10/2024 15:05:01    2575092

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Replying To CARPS:  "Well, that's a question I have posed here before. The Rathvilly area has a population of about 1,500. Clonmore's hinterland is about 1,200 and Tullow are pulling from over 5,000. Grange's pick would be something similar to Rathvilly's, judging on primary school numbers.

So why have Rathvilly consistently been a top senior club for 40 years, while the other three have oscillated between intermediate and junior?

Clearly Rathvilly people are not a genetically superior race, compared to those in neighboring parishes. So the only answer would be coaching and organization. Maybe other clubs could learn from them?

Old Leighlin are a bad example. I know they pull some out of Ballinabranna and the other Leighlin, but their natural pick is about 700 people. They are definitely doing better than they should be, on paper. Tinryland's nominal player supply also isn't much bigger than Rathvilly's (and yes I know they get some from town also) and they are hardly a failing club. Have been in two county finals in three years. The O'Hanrahan's seem to have been squeezed out by Eire Og and Palatine in the town. Sad to see their predicament, but if Eire Og weren't gobbling up, and then spitting out, so many youngsters you'd imagine the Blues and Asca would both be stronger. And, as posted before, the county would ultimately benefit."
If you look at Carlow's gaa history you will see that Eire Og wasn't born till 1959 approx.
1959 Tullow ( St Patrick's. ) won the senior county title.
Out of nowhere Eire Og won it in 1960.
O'Hanrahans won the senior title in 1961.
Eire Og won it in 1962.
However Tullow wonback to back in 1963 and '64.
Since then St. Patrick's have not been in the mix. - What's the story.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3049 - 15/10/2024 20:27:54    2575148

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Replying To supersub15:  "If you look at Carlow's gaa history you will see that Eire Og wasn't born till 1959 approx.
1959 Tullow ( St Patrick's. ) won the senior county title.
Out of nowhere Eire Og won it in 1960.
O'Hanrahans won the senior title in 1961.
Eire Og won it in 1962.
However Tullow wonback to back in 1963 and '64.
Since then St. Patrick's have not been in the mix. - What's the story."
Unlike the majority of people on this site, I remember when Tullow had strong teams. The rot set in back in the 1970s.

In the 1960s, the leading clubs were Éire Óg (then a new thing), O'Hanrahan's, Kildavin, Tullow, Ballinabranna, Palatine, and Clonmore.

Rathvilly back then were a junior/intermediate side, as were Old Leighlin.

As incredible as it may sound now, Palatine, Ballinabranna, Carlow Town and Tullow were also strong in senior hurling. There was also hurling around Clonmore/Hacketstown. Myshall had yet to be heard of, at the top level, and Borris were weak.

I'm not sure what happened to Tullow exactly. They had superb players, the Canavans, the Jackmans, Pat Brophy, Archibald, etc.

Tullow Community School had very good teams in the 1970s and 1980s. You would have had Rathvilly, St Patrick's, Ballon and Grange players (mostly) feeding into it. The Rathvilly lads seemed to keep it up after school and the Tullow lads didn't.

There just seems to be big structural problems in Tullow. And for the last twenty years in Carlow Town too. And the county board has never bothered to address the issues.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 16/10/2024 07:21:31    2575190

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Replying To Carlowtothecore1:  "I'd assume the numbers going to national school in a club catchment area is a better indicator of quality of work done.
Hard to see how Mlr would compete with carlow town / Satanta, Pal, Tinryland, Bagenalstown, Tullow with those numbers! Also Saint mullins have 4 schools to feed from if part of Graignamanagh is included, is this correct??
Wouldn't agree with the comment regards their approach to underage football as they compete very strong at minor and u20 level.. Thai minor team also won football only last Thursday.. so must be plenty of big balls kicked also.."
Well, it's easy to break that down. There's a website that gives school numbers.

Number of boys enrolled:

Ardattin 39 (a lot would be Coolkenno)
Bagenalstown Bridgets 119
Bagenalstown Queen 81
Ballinabranna 98
Ballinkillen 64
Bilbao 6
Ballon 134
Ballyconnell 93 (a good number of them would be Wicklow)
Ballymurphy 18
Bennekerry 190
Borris 99
Carlow Asca 292
Carlow Bishop Foley 207
Carlow ET 206
Carlow Graiguecullen 305 (mostly Laois for GAA, but a lot fair game for Carlow)
Carlow Lazerians 91
Carlow Gaelscoil 241
Carlow Green Road 67
Carlow St Joseph's 112
Clonegal 73
Drumphea 41
Drummond 11
Dunleckney 74
Garryhill 15
Glynn 30
Grange 110
Hacketstown 76
Leighlinbridge 96
Myshall 54
Newtown 22
Nurney 11
Old Leighlin 60
Rathmore 20
Rathoe 94
Rathvilly 109
Tinryland 113
Tullow Columbas 50
Tullow Patrician 196

The 10 minutes I spent on that little exercise just opened my eyes to the fact that we are messing up Carlow Town so badly.

Éire Óg basically have the pick of over a third of the county all to themselves, because we have allowed it to be a free-for-all.

Surely, there's logic in clubs being assigned to nominated schools, to give more children a chance to play and ultimately to broaden playing numbers?

Let Éire Óg have Asca and Educate Together, give Asca Green Road and Gaelscoil and let O'Hanrahan's have Bishop Foley and Joseph's for example? And also maybe see can Éire Óg push into Graigue School?

Subsidize each club a development officer to coordinate the whole thing? And do the same with Tullow?

All we are doing is destroying ourselves, the way things are.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 16/10/2024 07:43:26    2575192

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Replying To CARPS:  "Well, it's easy to break that down. There's a website that gives school numbers.

Number of boys enrolled:

Ardattin 39 (a lot would be Coolkenno)
Bagenalstown Bridgets 119
Bagenalstown Queen 81
Ballinabranna 98
Ballinkillen 64
Bilbao 6
Ballon 134
Ballyconnell 93 (a good number of them would be Wicklow)
Ballymurphy 18
Bennekerry 190
Borris 99
Carlow Asca 292
Carlow Bishop Foley 207
Carlow ET 206
Carlow Graiguecullen 305 (mostly Laois for GAA, but a lot fair game for Carlow)
Carlow Lazerians 91
Carlow Gaelscoil 241
Carlow Green Road 67
Carlow St Joseph's 112
Clonegal 73
Drumphea 41
Drummond 11
Dunleckney 74
Garryhill 15
Glynn 30
Grange 110
Hacketstown 76
Leighlinbridge 96
Myshall 54
Newtown 22
Nurney 11
Old Leighlin 60
Rathmore 20
Rathoe 94
Rathvilly 109
Tinryland 113
Tullow Columbas 50
Tullow Patrician 196

The 10 minutes I spent on that little exercise just opened my eyes to the fact that we are messing up Carlow Town so badly.

Éire Óg basically have the pick of over a third of the county all to themselves, because we have allowed it to be a free-for-all.

Surely, there's logic in clubs being assigned to nominated schools, to give more children a chance to play and ultimately to broaden playing numbers?

Let Éire Óg have Asca and Educate Together, give Asca Green Road and Gaelscoil and let O'Hanrahan's have Bishop Foley and Joseph's for example? And also maybe see can Éire Óg push into Graigue School?

Subsidize each club a development officer to coordinate the whole thing? And do the same with Tullow?

All we are doing is destroying ourselves, the way things are."
Well those figures make it all the more remarkable what MLR are doing in both codes.

Carlowtothecore1 (Carlow) - Posts: 46 - 16/10/2024 09:55:53    2575212

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Replying To CARPS:  "Well, it's easy to break that down. There's a website that gives school numbers.

Number of boys enrolled:

Ardattin 39 (a lot would be Coolkenno)
Bagenalstown Bridgets 119
Bagenalstown Queen 81
Ballinabranna 98
Ballinkillen 64
Bilbao 6
Ballon 134
Ballyconnell 93 (a good number of them would be Wicklow)
Ballymurphy 18
Bennekerry 190
Borris 99
Carlow Asca 292
Carlow Bishop Foley 207
Carlow ET 206
Carlow Graiguecullen 305 (mostly Laois for GAA, but a lot fair game for Carlow)
Carlow Lazerians 91
Carlow Gaelscoil 241
Carlow Green Road 67
Carlow St Joseph's 112
Clonegal 73
Drumphea 41
Drummond 11
Dunleckney 74
Garryhill 15
Glynn 30
Grange 110
Hacketstown 76
Leighlinbridge 96
Myshall 54
Newtown 22
Nurney 11
Old Leighlin 60
Rathmore 20
Rathoe 94
Rathvilly 109
Tinryland 113
Tullow Columbas 50
Tullow Patrician 196

The 10 minutes I spent on that little exercise just opened my eyes to the fact that we are messing up Carlow Town so badly.

Éire Óg basically have the pick of over a third of the county all to themselves, because we have allowed it to be a free-for-all.

Surely, there's logic in clubs being assigned to nominated schools, to give more children a chance to play and ultimately to broaden playing numbers?

Let Éire Óg have Asca and Educate Together, give Asca Green Road and Gaelscoil and let O'Hanrahan's have Bishop Foley and Joseph's for example? And also maybe see can Éire Óg push into Graigue School?

Subsidize each club a development officer to coordinate the whole thing? And do the same with Tullow?

All we are doing is destroying ourselves, the way things are."
I'd be fairly certain asca has the lowest participation numbers in the county. This is what I mean when I talk about doing more to bring in migrant families asca would have a high % in this category and we aren't doing enough to get them involved. I know the gaa keeps participation numbers from each school it would be interesting to see what they are. Bringing lads up for a blitz once or twice a year just isn't enough. The gaa really needs to step into these large urban areas with resources or we won't have games in another generation

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 16/10/2024 14:27:56    2575302

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Replying To CARPS:  "Well, it's easy to break that down. There's a website that gives school numbers.

Number of boys enrolled:

Ardattin 39 (a lot would be Coolkenno)
Bagenalstown Bridgets 119
Bagenalstown Queen 81
Ballinabranna 98
Ballinkillen 64
Bilbao 6
Ballon 134
Ballyconnell 93 (a good number of them would be Wicklow)
Ballymurphy 18
Bennekerry 190
Borris 99
Carlow Asca 292
Carlow Bishop Foley 207
Carlow ET 206
Carlow Graiguecullen 305 (mostly Laois for GAA, but a lot fair game for Carlow)
Carlow Lazerians 91
Carlow Gaelscoil 241
Carlow Green Road 67
Carlow St Joseph's 112
Clonegal 73
Drumphea 41
Drummond 11
Dunleckney 74
Garryhill 15
Glynn 30
Grange 110
Hacketstown 76
Leighlinbridge 96
Myshall 54
Newtown 22
Nurney 11
Old Leighlin 60
Rathmore 20
Rathoe 94
Rathvilly 109
Tinryland 113
Tullow Columbas 50
Tullow Patrician 196

The 10 minutes I spent on that little exercise just opened my eyes to the fact that we are messing up Carlow Town so badly.

Éire Óg basically have the pick of over a third of the county all to themselves, because we have allowed it to be a free-for-all.

Surely, there's logic in clubs being assigned to nominated schools, to give more children a chance to play and ultimately to broaden playing numbers?

Let Éire Óg have Asca and Educate Together, give Asca Green Road and Gaelscoil and let O'Hanrahan's have Bishop Foley and Joseph's for example? And also maybe see can Éire Óg push into Graigue School?

Subsidize each club a development officer to coordinate the whole thing? And do the same with Tullow?

All we are doing is destroying ourselves, the way things are."
I'd be fairly certain asca has the lowest participation numbers in the county. This is what I mean when I talk about doing more to bring in migrant families asca would have a high % in this category and we aren't doing enough to get them involved. I know the gaa keeps participation numbers from each school it would be interesting to see what they are. Bringing lads up for a blitz once or twice a year just isn't enough. The gaa really needs to step into these large urban areas with resources or we won't have games in another generation

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1660 - 16/10/2024 14:31:59    2575303

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@Carps,

Maybe push Eire Og into Graigue school?

One of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

Matador (Laois) - Posts: 7 - 16/10/2024 14:56:04    2575312

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Replying To Matador:  "@Carps,

Maybe push Eire Og into Graigue school?

One of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen."
Graiguecullen school is in county Carlow.

This, Carlow clubs have every right to offer GAA to its students.

What's actually ridiculous is people from Carlow playing for a Leix club.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 16/10/2024 15:19:26    2575318

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Replying To CARPS:  "Graiguecullen school is in county Carlow.

This, Carlow clubs have every right to offer GAA to its students.

What's actually ridiculous is people from Carlow playing for a Leix club."
Carp's if history thought us anything is that your bitterness and obsession with all things Graiguecullen and Laois will never wain.

Graiguecullen School is in County Laois. The official border ends/begins through Mt Clare Court and even comes with a sign stating as much.

Maybe you should be more concerned with the mass exodus of Carlow players moving across to Graiguecullen.

Matador (Laois) - Posts: 7 - 16/10/2024 16:02:54    2575328

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Replying To Matador:  "Carp's if history thought us anything is that your bitterness and obsession with all things Graiguecullen and Laois will never wain.

Graiguecullen School is in County Laois. The official border ends/begins through Mt Clare Court and even comes with a sign stating as much.

Maybe you should be more concerned with the mass exodus of Carlow players moving across to Graiguecullen."
No bitterness. The bigger losers from Graiguecullen playing in another county are the people of Graiguecullen. Because the club is going nowhere and will never reach its full potential.

Carlow players go to Graigue to get around transfer rules. Everyone knows that.

Personally, I think Carlow made a terrible mistake agreeing to the 'triangle rule' in the 1990s. It would have been better to have rigidly enforced the official boundaries.

You're right, Graigue school is just over the border. My bad. But a large amount of the students are from county Carlow. We need to maximise our numbers and there's nothing wrong with our clubs focusing on the area.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 723 - 16/10/2024 17:47:44    2575354

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I would know a little about Dublin where the fulltime Game Development Officers are very active. Each primary school (boys and girls) is designated a football and hurling club (or a single club if it offers both codes) and the GDO gives each class about an hour each week. The club in question then has a nursery where the kids train also about once a week, likely with their class mates and as they get older blitzes etc are organised, the usual drill etc. Obviously kids if they have a connection etc they are totally free to play with another club, but can still attend the in-school activity. However by systematically and actively targeting schools clubs get players who may not have ever picked up a hurley or had any interest in gaelic football. You do also get kids still opting for the 'super clubs' instead of a local outfit so its not a total gamechanger either. However, the GAA in Dublin is very clever, it is about mass participation, getting into primary schools, links to club GDOs and systematically doing this.

The take-up can also depend on the level of interest particularly for soccer, but in middle class areas in particular the GAA is absolutely thriving, including in non traditional areas. Think of Kilmacud, Cuala, Ballydoden, na Fianna, St Vincents to name a few. (As an aside Dublin club rugby from what I can see is slowly withering, the pro game which mainly draws from schools is obviously thriving, but participation is waning at adult levels. There is a level of superficiality there which is not representative of what is going on on the ground).

However, to Carps point as to Carlow town with a number of clubs, there may be families with no club affiliation or background in GAA. It would be smart to specifically allocate each NS to various clubs in the town. AFAIK Asca is involved with the Green Road NS which wouldn't be a traditional GAA school, but they have successfully brought on players from there so fair dues to all involved there and shows what can be done.

The Blues or Asca would serve to pick up players, but the big clubs such as Eire Og or Palatine (in my book a town club) would still do well on balance. Asca or Blues would need to up their game in terms of facilities, coaching etc. The 'politics' of this would also be an issue, but players who might stay in the game are opting out of the bigger clubs but could do a job in the smaller ones if involved. Also just outside Carlow town there is Milford, nice grounds etc, a club in search of a catchment?

The small ball game could be easier CTHC and Setanta could figure out how to split the town schools between them for hurling / camogie. Could Pal if it got serious about hurling pick up a town school, say Asca NS?

Maybe someone will tell me this is all going on already, but often plans are never consistently followed through on.

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 561 - 16/10/2024 17:54:40    2575358

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Just because they're going to school in an area doesn't mean chaps are going to play any sport if there's no link to the club with the school. For example theres very few teachers in schools in Bagenalstown and tullow from the areas and of the staff I know 1 max maybe 2 of them are involved in either club in terms of coaching. Same in Carlow town I'd wager. How many teachers are from Asca or have connections to Asca club or the blues. It's a lot different now and clubs really need a strong presence in the school if they're looking to recruit players!

benchtoaster (Carlow) - Posts: 35 - 16/10/2024 18:47:31    2575366

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