National Forum

Upcoming Special Congress

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The provincial championships appear to be an unmovable object. After Qualifier Round 2 there are 16 teams left. The solution appears to be 16 teams at that stage in 4 groups of 4. Give the provincial finalists 2 home games each. Provincial winners can take top seeding. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th seeding can be based on the league. Not many other options are likely to pass congress.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6335 - 23/10/2021 17:19:18    2387015

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Replying To Rebel2020:  "Can you imagine a proposal that said:

Let's draw 4 groups with a random number of teams in each from 6 up to 11. Let each group have teams varying in ability from senior to junior A standard, but let some groups have more senior teams than another. The winner of each group goes to quarter finals. The strong teams who don't win groups will get a second chance. The weaker ones won't. The teams who played less matches in the small groups will enter the backdoor at an advanced stage.

That's the proposal we've voted in favour of today.

Embarrassing."
Embarrassing post, the winner of each group deserves it's place in quarter final, the rest all get their 2nd chance, not just the strong ones. It's the fairest way when your dealing with different numbers in groups, maybe you would like a poor Div 4 and 3 team guaranteed it's place in last 16. Every team has to earn it's own right , no handouts.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1018 - 23/10/2021 17:28:45    2387017

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Replying To omahant:  "Competitive EPL inequality though when deep pockets can stack the deck - Man City, Chelsea and maybe now, Newcastle. I love the fairytale stories of Leicester as Champions (and Blackburn in the 90s). It's great to see players like Vardy staying loyal."
"Competitive EPL inequality though when deep pockets can stack the deck"

When was the last time a PL team won 6 Championships on the trot?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1555 - 23/10/2021 17:41:50    2387021

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It was a good day at Congress. Whilst Option B didn't get the required 60% of the vote it has served the purpose of stimulating real debate about change. It was crystal clear that there was unanimity in relation to the need for change. It was also clear that the link between the provincial championships and the All Ireland is to be maintained in some form. The hard part starts now. How will they square the circle?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5707 - 23/10/2021 17:56:26    2387023

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Competitive EPL inequality though when deep pockets can stack the deck"

When was the last time a PL team won 6 Championships on the trot?"
What I mean is it is not a 20-team race - money created a Top 6 from the Rest.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 23/10/2021 17:56:53    2387024

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Excuse my ignorance here. I don't know much about the GAA Congress procedures.

Are all Congress ballots held in secret? If not, why this one?

The vast majority of delegates voting in this ballot would have been doing so on decisions/instructions made at county level. Are they also secret?

The GAA, in the main, is an open and democratic organisation. Why have ballots held in secret? What is the reasoning behind it?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1555 - 23/10/2021 17:57:17    2387025

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "Colm Parkinson and others need to that this defeat on the chin and cop themselves on."
Make-up of today's votes:
Counties: 86
Overseas: 38
Central Council: 52
Past Presidents: 7
Proposal "B": For 85, Against: 83.
By my reckoning Central 52 votes and Past Presidents 7 votes were for the Proposal: Total 59 for.
This means the Proposal got only 26 county delegate's votes. I also feel that most of these were Overseas votes.
I also feel that in issues involving the All-Ireland structure each overseas Board should be limited to one vote each.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 620 - 23/10/2021 18:11:18    2387028

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I'd love refreshed Provs, like the hurling round robins.
Should the NFL be used as a Prov Qualifier to weed out the weakest teams ?
How about Ulster top 5, Muns top 3 and Conn top 3 to 3 separate groups of 5 - with Lein top 4 (split into 2 pairs) completing the groups.
Top 2 in Ulster, Muns & Conn to Prov Finals - with higher placed teams from each 'Lein pair' play their Prov Final.
Four Prov Champs to AI KO QFs - best 6 NFL records of other 11 to QF Playoff Rd, along with 2 Tier 2 Finalists.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2162 - 23/10/2021 18:17:56    2387029

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Replying To superbluedub:  "Still whinging about Dublin , jesus wept"
And you're still denying dublins many advantages like gaa cash and loads of home advantage.

Jesus wept indeed.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 13949 - 23/10/2021 18:20:04    2387031

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Replying To omahant:  "What I mean is it is not a 20-team race - money created a Top 6 from the Rest."
Nor is the Senior Football Championship a 32-team race.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1555 - 23/10/2021 18:31:42    2387034

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Replying To marmalade_farmer:  "The Fermanagh delegate said to pass the proposal would ruin the dreams and aspirations of Fermanagh people. That's what we are dealing with here. A county that hasn't had a sniff of winning a provincial title in 130 years wants to keep the charade going. Yet Ulster counties will continue to moan about how hard a path they have to win the AI. On todays vote good enough for them.
Kerry want to keep their handy route to the AI series open too of course.
Big decisions for RTÉ and sky too. The rights to broadcast must soon be coming up for renewal . They should slash their offer for the football championship anyway."
When Fermanagh reached the Ulster final a few years it created a huge interest and excitement in county. I can only imagine what they'd be like if they happen to win it.

Under proposal B the Provincials championship was scrapped while we would have provincial league played in the spring basically the McKenna Cup that would bring no excitement and interest for counties like Fermanagh.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 2610 - 23/10/2021 18:45:57    2387038

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Hi SF won the Last election but FF and the blue shirts came together to create the government, I wasn't happy about that but I didn't threaten to strike.

It's a shoddy system but it's alls we got."
In fairness less than 25% of the vote doesn't constitute a win. Sf won nothing, neither did any other party. But in this instance over 50% voted in favor of it and it didn't pass as it needed 60. Democratic? I'm not sure. Btw I was very much on the fence regarding this proposal. Some of it had merit some of it was v unfair.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17818 - 23/10/2021 19:05:18    2387039

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Replying To Gaa_lover:  "When Fermanagh reached the Ulster final a few years it created a huge interest and excitement in county. I can only imagine what they'd be like if they happen to win it.

Under proposal B the Provincials championship was scrapped while we would have provincial league played in the spring basically the McKenna Cup that would bring no excitement and interest for counties like Fermanagh."
Well thank God that proposal was shelved..it's basically a good idea but the provincial championships need to mean something. Simple solution..play the provincials..the 4 winners get into the quarter finals or a 12 team championship...then fill up the rest of the spaces with teams ranked according to their league performance..and then have your tier 2 competition..simple solution..Jim McGuiness suggested something similar years ago

mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 23/10/2021 19:10:08    2387040

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It's interesting the amount of discussion on this topic since vote was rejected..I'd like to hear in next week or 10 days from players who were in favour of the change,especially players from counties who voted against it..I still think that provincial councils are going to be a huge problem in getting changes in the future..listening to radio today it's all past players who are talking,I want to hear from the players of today..it looks to me to that a lot of bigger counties don't really want to see any of the lesser counties making any break through.,

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1447 - 23/10/2021 19:20:25    2387042

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Replying To Saynothing:  "It's funny the 13 teams that have declared their support for Proposal B are teams not good enough to compete in Div 1 but would like a handy route to latter stages of All Ireland."
No, i would rather see Wicklow play against teams of our own level, as opposed to getting hammered by Dublin.


What is funny about that ?

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2739 - 23/10/2021 19:53:49    2387045

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Only in the GAA could a system not fit for purpose be retained. The provincial council's know deep down their Championships are beyond a joke(Ulster excluded)and yet cling to them for fear of losing power. The GAA are going to run a championship next year in which division 3 and 4 teams are sent into a competition that will receive zero coverage and mean little to anyone and will pretend the patronising act of having a final in front of an empty Croke Park is enough for the smaller counties. On top of that, counties from div. 3 and 4 can receive a nice trimming from a top tier County in their respective province before entering the Tailtean cup. Change was badly needed but and there has been a big opportunity missed today.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1597 - 23/10/2021 19:57:28    2387047

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Replying To PK57:  "Only in the GAA could a system not fit for purpose be retained. The provincial council's know deep down their Championships are beyond a joke(Ulster excluded)and yet cling to them for fear of losing power. The GAA are going to run a championship next year in which division 3 and 4 teams are sent into a competition that will receive zero coverage and mean little to anyone and will pretend the patronising act of having a final in front of an empty Croke Park is enough for the smaller counties. On top of that, counties from div. 3 and 4 can receive a nice trimming from a top tier County in their respective province before entering the Tailtean cup. Change was badly needed but and there has been a big opportunity missed today."
Well said. I agree with every word.

Rebel2020 (Cork) - Posts: 55 - 23/10/2021 20:07:23    2387049

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Replying To Rebel2020:  "Well said. I agree with every word."
The back door system is the fairest by far. Teams that get knocked out in the provincial first round have a very good chance of drawing a div 4 or 3 in round 1 of qualifiers. Everyone gets a second chance.

giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1070 - 23/10/2021 20:21:52    2387050

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Replying To sponger:  "No, i would rather see Wicklow play against teams of our own level, as opposed to getting hammered by Dublin.


What is funny about that ?"
So what are you looking, SPONGE your way to last 16 to get hammered by whoever, yet 2 good teams in Div 1 don't qualify.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1018 - 23/10/2021 20:52:46    2387054

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Nor is the Senior Football Championship a 32-team race."
Is it 33?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1018 - 23/10/2021 20:54:49    2387057

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