National Forum

Amalgamate Weaker / Under Performing Counties

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I have a full list of amalgamated and stand alone teams on the Four Teams representing Dublin Geographical area thread,as part of the diluting Dublin and having a competitive AI championship.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 865 - 11/12/2020 20:40:19    2321455

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The All Ireland Football championship is not too unlike many other elite sports competitions. Most teams haven't a hope of winning it, Carlow won't win an All Ireland any time but neither will Dundee Utd win the Scottish league, Ireland won't win the World Cup, soccer or rugby. How many athletes take part in an Olympics and will never win a medal? Sport is not always about winning the main competition, for many teams it's about reaching personal bests. Think about Ireland beating the All Blacks for the first time you swear after that game that we won a world cup

Updlocal (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 11/12/2020 21:15:50    2321463

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Meath also won a provincial title in last ten years. So ur point is mute."
Well no. Meath won Leinster in 2010, but there has been ten Leinster titls won since then, so effectively Meath did not win Leinster in the past ten years.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3263 - 11/12/2020 21:17:07    2321464

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Replying To Updlocal:  "The All Ireland Football championship is not too unlike many other elite sports competitions. Most teams haven't a hope of winning it, Carlow won't win an All Ireland any time but neither will Dundee Utd win the Scottish league, Ireland won't win the World Cup, soccer or rugby. How many athletes take part in an Olympics and will never win a medal? Sport is not always about winning the main competition, for many teams it's about reaching personal bests. Think about Ireland beating the All Blacks for the first time you swear after that game that we won a world cup"
Point taken but if its possible to have a competitive championship why not have it and in so doing have players from lesser counties experience higher quality competition and even harbour expectations of being on the winners rostrum sometime!

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 865 - 11/12/2020 21:48:31    2321474

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Field teams based on Irish Election constituencies ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1848 - 11/12/2020 15:14:23
Terrible idea and these constituencies can and do change all the time. Pointless. No identity can develop and it wouldnt be good for the game.

I'd be more in favour of the GAA dispatching regional experts who could assist counties bring more know-how and expertise in terms of structures, coaching, S&C, nutrition etc. It isn't just as simple as handing county boards a big pile of cash. Help the so-called weaker counties get the structures in place similar to how Dublin have so successfully done.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7092 - 11/12/2020 15:44:29
Is that not in place already? Thats a joke if not the case. There should be development officers, GAA employed fitness/strength and conditioning coaches and all that.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2549 - 11/12/2020 21:52:43    2321475

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Replying To Updlocal:  "The All Ireland Football championship is not too unlike many other elite sports competitions. Most teams haven't a hope of winning it, Carlow won't win an All Ireland any time but neither will Dundee Utd win the Scottish league, Ireland won't win the World Cup, soccer or rugby. How many athletes take part in an Olympics and will never win a medal? Sport is not always about winning the main competition, for many teams it's about reaching personal bests. Think about Ireland beating the All Blacks for the first time you swear after that game that we won a world cup"
To a point you are correct. However in general professional sport's teams are successful relative to the amount of money they have to spend on the best players. International teams who pick from 10 and 20 times our population should be more successful than us. It is a feat to compete with them. New York Yankee were successful for years because no one could match the offers they would make to the best players while luring them away from other teams.
I would like to think that we (GAA) are better than that and it is incumbent on the GAA to have a level playing field or else stop the charade and get on with the drive towards professionalism. Just because Dundee won't win the Scottish league is no reason to write off Carlow from ever winning an All-Ireland. Quiet honestly that has been the attitude of some of the elites in our sport with statements like "ah they did well for Carlow, Antrim, Sligo Laois etc." Just training fodder. If these so called no hopers quit our games would be the loss.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1644 - 11/12/2020 21:53:49    2321477

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Replying To Canuck:  "To a point you are correct. However in general professional sport's teams are successful relative to the amount of money they have to spend on the best players. International teams who pick from 10 and 20 times our population should be more successful than us. It is a feat to compete with them. New York Yankee were successful for years because no one could match the offers they would make to the best players while luring them away from other teams.
I would like to think that we (GAA) are better than that and it is incumbent on the GAA to have a level playing field or else stop the charade and get on with the drive towards professionalism. Just because Dundee won't win the Scottish league is no reason to write off Carlow from ever winning an All-Ireland. Quiet honestly that has been the attitude of some of the elites in our sport with statements like "ah they did well for Carlow, Antrim, Sligo Laois etc." Just training fodder. If these so called no hopers quit our games would be the loss."
I am not saying that these teams should be seen as training fodder but they are representing where they are from and most of these counties are at a massive disadvantage beacause of their population but a goal for these counties is to win a provisional and get to an all Ireland semi or it could be to beat a traditional big team such as when Carlow beat Kildare or when Longford beat ourselves. It would mean a lot more to them if they knocked a team out of that years championship for good. That's why I think knockout is better for the minnows, because if they do knock out a big county it means a lot more than just winning a match. I think getting rid of the provincials is daft because that's what a lot of teams aspire to win, not the All Ireland. Some of the greatest footballing moments has come when a county won a provisional, Leitrim winning Connacht in 94, Clare winning Munster, Cavan winning 1997, Laois winning leister, Westmeath winning it then in 2004. Great provisional days are still to come, Fermanagh and Antrim winning Ulster, Wicklow and Carlow winning Leinsterand Limerick wining a Munster. Don't through the baby out with the bath water. Tweak county spending, put in paid provincial coaches for youngsters and have more analysts from weaker counties on Rte and sky. All we are hearing is what the big counties think is needed to be changed in the championship not what the weaker counties want out of an all Ireland football championship

Updlocal (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 11/12/2020 23:53:32    2321497

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Replying To Updlocal:  "I am not saying that these teams should be seen as training fodder but they are representing where they are from and most of these counties are at a massive disadvantage beacause of their population but a goal for these counties is to win a provisional and get to an all Ireland semi or it could be to beat a traditional big team such as when Carlow beat Kildare or when Longford beat ourselves. It would mean a lot more to them if they knocked a team out of that years championship for good. That's why I think knockout is better for the minnows, because if they do knock out a big county it means a lot more than just winning a match. I think getting rid of the provincials is daft because that's what a lot of teams aspire to win, not the All Ireland. Some of the greatest footballing moments has come when a county won a provisional, Leitrim winning Connacht in 94, Clare winning Munster, Cavan winning 1997, Laois winning leister, Westmeath winning it then in 2004. Great provisional days are still to come, Fermanagh and Antrim winning Ulster, Wicklow and Carlow winning Leinsterand Limerick wining a Munster. Don't through the baby out with the bath water. Tweak county spending, put in paid provincial coaches for youngsters and have more analysts from weaker counties on Rte and sky. All we are hearing is what the big counties think is needed to be changed in the championship not what the weaker counties want out of an all Ireland football championship"
I strongly disagree with this straight knockout is good for minnows.

They don't play enough games then to develop.

Yes in a knockout there's more chance of a shock result.

In a knockout system there's more need for shock results because more of a gap develops between the best and the also rans.

How many more championship games have Dublin played than Meath or Cavan. We expect Meath or Cavan just to go out and match a team of Dublin's experience and know how without having had them develop themselves over time.

You're trying to build a house without any foundations there. This is a huge part of the problem right now.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3625 - 12/12/2020 10:21:07    2321529

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For all its warts the GAA is a great organization,. Certainly at grass roots. We are told the GAA is a democratic organization. Is it? The more successful you are it seems the more power you have or else the others like to shoot themselves in the foot.
When Waterford wanted to play their games In Nolan Park the vote against was 5 to 4. There six counties in Munster. In essence some counties had two votes because of positions on the board. Is that what officials are elected for to out vote the counties. The funny thing about that is very soon after a Leinster championship game was played in Thurles.
In fairness though Tipp and Cork voted with us. It was the so called weaker teams in Munster put the boot in. Lest we forget Kerry voted against us and were not even in the championship.
What has this to do with under performing counties ? It seems a lot of things are stacked against them.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1644 - 12/12/2020 14:20:15    2321566

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