National Forum

Amalgamate Weaker / Under Performing Counties

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Should counties that have no chance of success be amalgamated with other neighbouring counties in an attempt to increase competitiveness. Given the discussions about splitting Dublin it appears that county boundaries are no longer sacrosanct in the GAA. There appears to be a logical argument for amalgamations. It would iron out poor administrative / management structures as hopefully the weaker of the two would benefit from the stronger. It would give a more equitable population to pick from and it would allow for a greater area to draw sponsorship from and a greater marketing opportunity for the sponsor.

To make it equitable with the Dublin proposals, this should be done irregardless of playing population or club numbers, as this appears to be the criteria for splitting Dublin, so Cavan would join with Monaghan, Mayo with Roscommon etc.

dougal123 (Louth) - Posts: 11 - 11/12/2020 12:31:18    2321325

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No. Only point of amalgamation would be if it was professional sport where results matter.
Yes Dublin have a big advantage and funding has to be looked at, but amalgamation would not be answer.

Gilroys thoughts because some Cavan players were in DCU they would get along with Monaghan players a strange way of looking at amalgamations.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 11/12/2020 12:51:59    2321329

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Replying To dougal123:  "Should counties that have no chance of success be amalgamated with other neighbouring counties in an attempt to increase competitiveness. Given the discussions about splitting Dublin it appears that county boundaries are no longer sacrosanct in the GAA. There appears to be a logical argument for amalgamations. It would iron out poor administrative / management structures as hopefully the weaker of the two would benefit from the stronger. It would give a more equitable population to pick from and it would allow for a greater area to draw sponsorship from and a greater marketing opportunity for the sponsor.

To make it equitable with the Dublin proposals, this should be done irregardless of playing population or club numbers, as this appears to be the criteria for splitting Dublin, so Cavan would join with Monaghan, Mayo with Roscommon etc."
All 4 you've named have won provincial titles in the last 10 seasons. 3 have made the all ireland semi finals.

How about amalgamating Meath and Louth?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 11/12/2020 13:05:19    2321331

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Replying To cavanman47:  "All 4 you've named have won provincial titles in the last 10 seasons. 3 have made the all ireland semi finals.

How about amalgamating Meath and Louth?"
Absolutely amalgamation of Louth and Meath would be on the cards in that scenario. But the four named counties were sort of to illustrate the point that success isn't the sole criteria being used in the Dublin debate so it shouldn't be here. Population is the stick being used to beat them with, because for anyone to claim they want to split them just for being too successful wouldn't look great. The reality is that in Dublin Fingal (Nth county) have no one on the first 15 and the vast majority of starters come from a small area of the north city.

If we are to mess with county boundaries because of success or the lack of success, then the aforementioned Louth / Meath would be an ideal starting point. But if we were to do it on population, then the Cavan / Monaghan way is the way to go.

Someone above makes the very valid point that if this was a professional sport this is the way to go, but it's not. And I largely agree, a lot of it is about allegiance to county etc. But either it is, or it isn't and the debate in the wider GAA community seems confused on the topic.

dougal123 (Louth) - Posts: 11 - 11/12/2020 13:31:55    2321344

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Awful suggestion, theres too much change happening with everything, can we not just say stop for once. The county structure is something very special and treasured to this country, why dilute the whole thing down for some suggestion from someone in Dublin. Dublin dont have the traditions of rural Ireland to understand the whole county boundaries thing. Let them split in two if they want!

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 733 - 11/12/2020 14:12:07    2321355

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Should counties that have no chance of success be amalgamated with other neighbouring counties in an attempt to increase competitiveness. Given the discussions about splitting Dublin it appears that county boundaries are no longer sacrosanct in the GAA. There appears to be a logical argument for amalgamations. It would iron out poor administrative / management structures as hopefully the weaker of the two would benefit from the stronger. It would give a more equitable population to pick from and it would allow for a greater area to draw sponsorship from and a greater marketing opportunity for the sponsor.
To make it equitable with the Dublin proposals, this should be done irregardless of playing population or club numbers, as this appears to be the criteria for splitting Dublin, so Cavan would join with Monaghan, Mayo with Roscommon etc.
dougal123 (Louth) - Posts: 5 - 11/12/2020 12:31:18 No. Counties shouldnt be amalgamated.
Change the competition structures. Many counties never have been competitive in the all ireland or their province. Thats sport. Counties borders have to be kept. They are part and parcel of the whole identity within the GAA.
Put in tiers within the all ireland series. It allows more teams be competitive at their own level and progress at their own pace.

No. Only point of amalgamation would be if it was professional sport where results matter.
Yes Dublin have a big advantage and funding has to be looked at, but amalgamation would not be answer.
Gilroys thoughts because some Cavan players were in DCU they would get along with Monaghan players a strange way of looking at amalgamations.
FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2246 - 11/12/2020 12:51:59 Professional sport is irrelevant to this discussion. Amalgamation is not the answer as identity is key to improving things within the inter county game.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 11/12/2020 14:40:29    2321364

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Field teams based on Irish Election constituencies ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 11/12/2020 15:14:23    2321371

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I think the suggestion around splitting Dublin in 2 or 4, is just an idea that is throw out to provoke a reaction. I don't believe it will ever happen, just like other counties won't be amalgamated. A child growing up in Dublin, wants to play for Dublin, not South Dublin just like a child growing up in Meath, wants to play for Meath, not Meath-Louth. Population is used as one of the reasons for Dublin being dominate but the population factor is only a small part of what makes Dublin what they are currently. For example, Mayo, based on results over the last 10 years been the second most consistent team in Ireland in terms of getting to All Ireland semi finals and finals; Mayo have a smaller population than a lot of other counties that haven't done anything in this period including my own county. I think funding, proper administrative capabilities i.e. a good county board and tradition are factors that contribute to a county's success or lack of success more than population. If the GAA would direct the funding to areas that it is need, that would be a start but equally there is no point directing funding to some counties unless you have administrators at county board with the capabilities to spend the money wisely in order to improve football/hurling within the county, otherwise, it will be just wasted.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1909 - 11/12/2020 15:21:34    2321375

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I think if you go down the road of forcing so-called weaker counties to amalgamate you run the risk of diluting some of the essence of what the GAA is all about. Parish rivalry, inter-county rivalry is an intangible thing but it's part of what makes the GAA so great. If you go messing with that I think you're on a dangerous path.

I'd be more in favour of the GAA dispatching regional experts who could assist counties bring more know-how and expertise in terms of structures, coaching, S&C, nutrition etc. It isn't just as simple as handing county boards a big pile of cash. Help the so-called weaker counties get the structures in place similar to how Dublin have so successfully done.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9115 - 11/12/2020 15:44:29    2321380

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I'd stick this guy on ignore. Obviously another of Johan Horan's army of volunteers sent in to try to polish the achievements of the boy$ in blu€. Bad news chief. You're about 3 years and 20 million quid too late.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 11/12/2020 16:15:35    2321386

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Replying To omahant:  "Field teams based on Irish Election constituencies ?"
Ooh. .is Donal Keogan from that snippet of west meath that was recently annexed into the cavan/monaghan constituency?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 11/12/2020 16:54:20    2321390

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I think we should have provincial teams made up of players from weaker counties. In football and hurling. Every child should have a chance of winning an all Ireland and not be restricted by their county of birth.

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 11/12/2020 17:25:37    2321401

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Replying To liam500:  "I think we should have provincial teams made up of players from weaker counties. In football and hurling. Every child should have a chance of winning an all Ireland and not be restricted by their county of birth."
No. Provincial teams isnt the answer. Have a tiered competition then everyone has a chance of winning an all ireland at least at their level.
Junior/Intermediate clubs relish winning that title as much as senior clubs do within club level so why not have levels within the inter county championship

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3495 - 11/12/2020 18:13:36    2321415

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Replying To liam500:  "I think we should have provincial teams made up of players from weaker counties. In football and hurling. Every child should have a chance of winning an all Ireland and not be restricted by their county of birth."
The railway cup gave everyone that opportunity. It was deemed more prestigious than the All Ireland back in the 50s and 60s.

But it's a shadow of its former self these days.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 11/12/2020 18:14:38    2321416

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Terrible terrible idea, just think of the amount of players whose opportunities to test themselves at the highest level would be gone. Wouldn't take much notice of Gilroy anyone who trys to compare Dublin to Kerry and Kilkenny is shoots down their own argument there and then.

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 11/12/2020 18:33:09    2321420

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Would it be an idea to pick a team of the best of the rest of Ireland against Dublin in a 1 off charity match? Be some craic picking the team.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 11/12/2020 18:54:13    2321425

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Field teams based on Irish Election constituencies ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 11/12/2020 19:04:06    2321427

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Replying To dougal123:  "Should counties that have no chance of success be amalgamated with other neighbouring counties in an attempt to increase competitiveness. Given the discussions about splitting Dublin it appears that county boundaries are no longer sacrosanct in the GAA. There appears to be a logical argument for amalgamations. It would iron out poor administrative / management structures as hopefully the weaker of the two would benefit from the stronger. It would give a more equitable population to pick from and it would allow for a greater area to draw sponsorship from and a greater marketing opportunity for the sponsor.

To make it equitable with the Dublin proposals, this should be done irregardless of playing population or club numbers, as this appears to be the criteria for splitting Dublin, so Cavan would join with Monaghan, Mayo with Roscommon etc."
Amalgamation rubbish idea. A system and game that allows all to compete is what we need and deserve. In the 80s,90s nobody was on the business end of a hiding year in year out. All where able to compete. The quality teams ended up winning in the end which is the right way.
It was the rule change about a 70 minute match and a 5 sub rule that has led to such an uneven system we have today.

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 259 - 11/12/2020 19:05:13    2321428

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Replying To wicklowsupport:  "I think the suggestion around splitting Dublin in 2 or 4, is just an idea that is throw out to provoke a reaction. I don't believe it will ever happen, just like other counties won't be amalgamated. A child growing up in Dublin, wants to play for Dublin, not South Dublin just like a child growing up in Meath, wants to play for Meath, not Meath-Louth. Population is used as one of the reasons for Dublin being dominate but the population factor is only a small part of what makes Dublin what they are currently. For example, Mayo, based on results over the last 10 years been the second most consistent team in Ireland in terms of getting to All Ireland semi finals and finals; Mayo have a smaller population than a lot of other counties that haven't done anything in this period including my own county. I think funding, proper administrative capabilities i.e. a good county board and tradition are factors that contribute to a county's success or lack of success more than population. If the GAA would direct the funding to areas that it is need, that would be a start but equally there is no point directing funding to some counties unless you have administrators at county board with the capabilities to spend the money wisely in order to improve football/hurling within the county, otherwise, it will be just wasted."
Clubs who for decades have been the fiercest rivals have amalgamated and now get on fine. What be wrong with say Leitrim and Longford amalgamating and Dublin been broken into four, when each team would have a catchment area of about 400,000 people about six times the combined populations of Leitrim and Longford. BTW, the first day the GAA was formed Tipp was then considered to be two counties, North and South Riding. Dr Croke requested that the two be treated as one with Moneygall a parish in Offaly thrown in just for good measure,, so the precedent is there

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4316 - 11/12/2020 19:21:05    2321430

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Replying To cavanman47:  "All 4 you've named have won provincial titles in the last 10 seasons. 3 have made the all ireland semi finals.

How about amalgamating Meath and Louth?"
Meath also won a provincial title in last ten years. So ur point is mute.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/12/2020 20:31:22    2321452

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