National Forum

Casement Park

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Replying To essmac:  "Not from me or anyone I know in Tyrone. The project has stalled due to objections from mainly Nationalist residents nearby. Nothing much the GAA or anyone outside Belfast can do about that if a bunch of chippy nimbys would rather live beside a derelict eyesore than a nice modern stadium."
True, I won't deny that about 20/30 residents have been allowed to place obstacles in the way too. I won't generalise about ALL Gaels from Tyrone or Derry being opposed either but I have read objections to Casement from many Gaels on HS and I have sat in works canteens and listened to their anti Belfast nonsense. One fella from Tyrone said "Sure Belfast isn't even a Gaelic Games place". That is the sort of downright ignorance and stupidity we have had to deal with.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9428 - 20/10/2019 20:45:54    2244631

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At this stage the GAA should go for a green field site on the edge of Belfast where you won't get any objections. Sell the current casement which is quite large to build apartments. Or pay for the building of them and use the rent to pay off the new stadiums mortgage. Between the funds already allocated, the GAA's money and some loans they could easily build a 45k stadium. Fill it 4 times a year. 3 times for concerts and once for the ulster final.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 21/10/2019 05:07:24    2244686

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Here we go again. We're on the road again...

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Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 16/01/2020 09:50:46    2260137

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Long overdue. I've lived in Belfast for years and haven't seen a big game here since 2010. Would be nice to have a couple of games a year where I don't have to travel.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 245 - 16/01/2020 09:59:07    2260140

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Replying To OGarmaile:  "Long overdue. I've lived in Belfast for years and haven't seen a big game here since 2010. Would be nice to have a couple of games a year where I don't have to travel."
whats was the capacity back in the 2000s

2020Vision (Meath) - Posts: 21 - 16/01/2020 11:57:15    2260158

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Seems to be light at the end of the tunnel now, thankfully. One one hand I don't understand the residents being dead against the increased capacity. The ground will be full for max 2/3 games a year, ulster final and the odd super 8 game. Every other inter big County game will be circa 15-20,000, which is the size of stadium which the residents association have advocated for. The vast majority of games played, league and club etc, will have very small attendences. Surely a few days a year of capicicity crowds is acceptable. Its not as if there was never a stadium there before.

On the other hand I completely understand the concerns over a concert venue. Concerts bring a completely different demographic and a whole range noise and nuisance issues. There's a big difference to 30,000 gaa fans on a Sunday after noon to 30,000 concert goers at 10pm on a Saturday night.

Personally I'd love to see it built. The plans are fantastic. Fans are right on top of the pitch and it will be the only fully covered GAA stadium which will do wonders for atmosoheres. The fully covered terrace behind the goal will be a sight to behold on Ulster Final day.

The suggestion of a modern stadium of this size in the countryside in the middle of Ulster is a non runner. It needs to be in a city. The choice of being able to make a weekend of a game by staying in the city the night before or after and all that comes with it is a welcome addition. Additionally a stadium in Belfast makes it a lot easier for the thousands of gaels who now reside in Britain to attend Usyer finals etc.

The facilities in Clones are a disgrace and no amount of improvement will bring it up to the spec proposed in casement, bar a complete demolition and rebuild. Ulster deserves a top class in a city like in Dublin and Cork.

If the stadium goes ahead the dualing of the Belfast to Derry will be complete by that stage. Belfast will be much more accessible to many parts in Donegal. Indeed when the road is complete it would be quicker to travel from Inishowen to Dublin via Belfast.

Antifa (Donegal) - Posts: 143 - 16/01/2020 12:36:02    2260175

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Replying To 2020Vision:  "whats was the capacity back in the 2000s"
I'd say there were crowds of around 20,000 there in the late 2000s when Tyrone played.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 245 - 16/01/2020 14:35:49    2260211

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Replying To Antifa:  "Seems to be light at the end of the tunnel now, thankfully. One one hand I don't understand the residents being dead against the increased capacity. The ground will be full for max 2/3 games a year, ulster final and the odd super 8 game. Every other inter big County game will be circa 15-20,000, which is the size of stadium which the residents association have advocated for. The vast majority of games played, league and club etc, will have very small attendences. Surely a few days a year of capicicity crowds is acceptable. Its not as if there was never a stadium there before.

On the other hand I completely understand the concerns over a concert venue. Concerts bring a completely different demographic and a whole range noise and nuisance issues. There's a big difference to 30,000 gaa fans on a Sunday after noon to 30,000 concert goers at 10pm on a Saturday night.

Personally I'd love to see it built. The plans are fantastic. Fans are right on top of the pitch and it will be the only fully covered GAA stadium which will do wonders for atmosoheres. The fully covered terrace behind the goal will be a sight to behold on Ulster Final day.

The suggestion of a modern stadium of this size in the countryside in the middle of Ulster is a non runner. It needs to be in a city. The choice of being able to make a weekend of a game by staying in the city the night before or after and all that comes with it is a welcome addition. Additionally a stadium in Belfast makes it a lot easier for the thousands of gaels who now reside in Britain to attend Usyer finals etc.

The facilities in Clones are a disgrace and no amount of improvement will bring it up to the spec proposed in casement, bar a complete demolition and rebuild. Ulster deserves a top class in a city like in Dublin and Cork.

If the stadium goes ahead the dualing of the Belfast to Derry will be complete by that stage. Belfast will be much more accessible to many parts in Donegal. Indeed when the road is complete it would be quicker to travel from Inishowen to Dublin via Belfast."
With the odd exception I think most GAA stadiums should be looking at at least 3/4 covered. Too many stadiums built for 1 or 2 big possibly sunny summer days rather than the usually wet rainy league and club games where most of the fixtures come from.

From the stadiums I've seen I think Nowlan park in KK is perfect for most counties a real fine size and design for league and the rest and there's no fear of ever needing a 50k + round that way for a Leinster final

I really think the new casement gets that mix right along with the added bonus of being shinny and modern

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 16/01/2020 14:59:42    2260221

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "east Tyrone is more accessible than Belfast's M2 route? I've heard it all now!

And to say there is no call for a stadium in Belfast after what we've been left with is the most ridiculous post I've seen on this thread. Im sure a 40,000 seater in the same neck of the woods as your already capable Healy park would suit your own selfish needs perfectly but Ulster is bigger than Tyrone and if progress is to be made up here then Ulster needs the iconic Casement park redeveloped and sitting proudly once again in the most populated area of GAA clubs in the whole of Ireland."
Well yes that is my point and it is correct.

East Tyrone is more accessible to MOST of the gaels of Ulster than West Belfast is.

You are blinkered in thinking that the M2 somehow services all areas of the province.

Clearly East Tyrone is a better option for geals from Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal and is at least as accessible for most gaels from Derry and Armagh. I agree that casement is a better option for most people from Down and Antrim.

As regards your other points. I am sorry but I just don't agree with you. The reason you have been left with the mess you have is mainly down to local residents objections.

Also I just don't see the point in it. How many times is it actually going to be used? It seems strange to blow a load more money into a white elephant project when those funds could be much better spent at grass roots level.

A multi million pound stadium in Belfast will not improve the participation of young people in gaelic games in Antrim. Schools and development coaches will, building a better club culture will and improving the welfare of your current county teams will.

A big concrete monstrosity will not.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 777 - 16/01/2020 15:04:53    2260223

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Replying To Breezy:  "With the odd exception I think most GAA stadiums should be looking at at least 3/4 covered. Too many stadiums built for 1 or 2 big possibly sunny summer days rather than the usually wet rainy league and club games where most of the fixtures come from.

From the stadiums I've seen I think Nowlan park in KK is perfect for most counties a real fine size and design for league and the rest and there's no fear of ever needing a 50k + round that way for a Leinster final

I really think the new casement gets that mix right along with the added bonus of being shinny and modern"
Most grounds can accommodate the crowds at league and club games perfectly well in the covered main stands provided. It's great on a hot summers day to have the choice of watching a game from under a roof or just out in the open. 2 of the nicest GAA grounds I have been to are in Armagh and Newry, in winter you will always get a seat in the covered stand and in summer you can watch from the open terraces. Casement is the flagship stadium in Irelands 2nd largest province and iv no problem with the design proposed, but its not needed in most other locations where cheaper solutions work fine.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2623 - 16/01/2020 15:18:39    2260229

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "In truth Casement has faced as much opposition from other Ulster Gaels as any anti GAA forces in the North. There is resentment and jealousy from some elements, particularly in Tyrone and Derry, that Belfast could hold Ulster finals again. These are the same people who travel into Belfast every day for their Civil Service/NHS/Teaching jobs, whose student youths torture residents in the Holyland with their drunken loutish behaviour and who take EVERYTHING from Belfast and give nothing back. Their hypocrisy and selfishness makes me puke to be honest."
It is this chip on the shoulder of Belfast people that really gets to me. Its like you can't have a proper grown up discussion about this stadium.

The casement park fiasco is not the fault of other gaels within the GAA or people from other counties who happen to work in Belfast or residents of the holy lands (whatever that has got to do with anything?!). It is mainly down to local resident objections and the incompetence of the Antrim county board and local politicians.

Also I would not be one bit jealous of Belfast holding Ulster finals. Same as I am not jealous of Monaghan holding county finals.

I just think that it is a complete waste of money. It will only be used on a hand full of occasions. The locations is not ideal for the majority of the residents of Ulster and the atmosphere traditionally has been very poor. Especially when you compare this to days out in Clones.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 777 - 16/01/2020 15:27:55    2260234

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Replying To Wally:  "It is this chip on the shoulder of Belfast people that really gets to me. Its like you can't have a proper grown up discussion about this stadium.

The casement park fiasco is not the fault of other gaels within the GAA or people from other counties who happen to work in Belfast or residents of the holy lands (whatever that has got to do with anything?!). It is mainly down to local resident objections and the incompetence of the Antrim county board and local politicians.

Also I would not be one bit jealous of Belfast holding Ulster finals. Same as I am not jealous of Monaghan holding county finals.

I just think that it is a complete waste of money. It will only be used on a hand full of occasions. The locations is not ideal for the majority of the residents of Ulster and the atmosphere traditionally has been very poor. Especially when you compare this to days out in Clones."
I really don't get your reasoning at the end. Every single GAA stadium built is only used a handful of times at full capacity.Croke Park included especially when compared to the usage of stadiums of other sports.

Other than Croke Park, I can't think of any GAA stadium that reaches its capacity more than 1-2 times a year. I'd say 80% never reach capacity in any given year. Are they all a complete waste of money? Should we just not bother with stadiums?

Antifa (Donegal) - Posts: 143 - 16/01/2020 16:22:26    2260253

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Resources would be more wisely spent on Ulster club football. Observe the impact of investment in the GAA in Dublin; we should be trying to emulate this in Belfast, Derry + Newry

befair (Down) - Posts: 212 - 16/01/2020 16:38:52    2260258

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Replying To Soma:  "Most grounds can accommodate the crowds at league and club games perfectly well in the covered main stands provided. It's great on a hot summers day to have the choice of watching a game from under a roof or just out in the open. 2 of the nicest GAA grounds I have been to are in Armagh and Newry, in winter you will always get a seat in the covered stand and in summer you can watch from the open terraces. Casement is the flagship stadium in Irelands 2nd largest province and iv no problem with the design proposed, but its not needed in most other locations where cheaper solutions work fine."
I like the design too although I would leave one side open bit like a mini Croke Park.

I was more musing that in general CBs should think more about the league when building stadia. Limerick for instance the only covered stand and often the only open stand is the old one with the crap view although it seems this will be sorted in the future

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 16/01/2020 17:47:56    2260271

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Replying To Wally:  "Well yes that is my point and it is correct.

East Tyrone is more accessible to MOST of the gaels of Ulster than West Belfast is.

You are blinkered in thinking that the M2 somehow services all areas of the province.

Clearly East Tyrone is a better option for geals from Fermanagh, Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal and is at least as accessible for most gaels from Derry and Armagh. I agree that casement is a better option for most people from Down and Antrim.

As regards your other points. I am sorry but I just don't agree with you. The reason you have been left with the mess you have is mainly down to local residents objections.

Also I just don't see the point in it. How many times is it actually going to be used? It seems strange to blow a load more money into a white elephant project when those funds could be much better spent at grass roots level.

A multi million pound stadium in Belfast will not improve the participation of young people in gaelic games in Antrim. Schools and development coaches will, building a better club culture will and improving the welfare of your current county teams will.

A big concrete monstrosity will not."
You're confusing distance with accessibility. 40,000 people turning up to a town with less than half that population causes major delays. Making the location less accessible. Clones is a disaster on Ulster final day. Belfast can deal with that sort of traffic on a daily basis. Theres a reason Croke park wasn't built in the middle of Ireland somewhere.

The residents you mentioned are only given airtime and influence because of Unionist politicians who will stop at nothing to hault the progress of anything GAA related. Just look at the 3 stadium project. Windsor and Ravenhill, similar built up locations, no issues and built in no time. No coincidence!

I do agree with you that money would have been better spent on coaching and development but that wasn't a choice. Ireland's second city deserves to have a venue fit for purpose and is expected to host Super 8s, provincial finals as well as what Casement used to host which was a range of club matches throughout the year as well as county matches from McKenna cup all the way through to AI championship. It was actually used most of the year in it's old design so I can only assume your going on how often you seen it used regarding your own county.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2278 - 17/01/2020 11:08:05    2260414

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Cut your losses Antrim ,.. build a 10,000 capacity stadium that can be added to in years to come and get on with building the GAA in that county.. that location in Belfast can't safely take a larger crowd anyway.. if Windsor and Ravenhill
Hadn't been developed common sense would prevail... but it's the fear of them'ns gettin more than us ones that's drivin this . let's get over that and properly develop the home of Ulster football that is Clones ... floodlights hawk eye and better seating on the hill .. job done

KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 290 - 03/03/2020 20:59:22    2272067

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that location in Belfast can't safely take a larger crowd anyway.. 

I'll just leave this here for you:


A panel of experts has unanimously backed spectator safety procedures in the redevelopment plan for Casement Park.

The endorsement from the group comprising all the main emergency services comes more than three years after the former chair of the same body triggered a Stormont inquiry when he revealed his concerns about the ill-fated first design for the west Belfast venue.

The Safety Technical Group (STG), which was set up to scrutinise plans to redevelop stadia in Northern Ireland, has verified steps taken by the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) to ensure the proposed 34,000-plus capacity stadium could be evacuated safely, with emergency vehicles able to get appropriate access.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 03/03/2020 21:49:34    2272076

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Parking round Casement was always a bit abandon and hope. Hope that can be sorted. Maybe a park n ride but security needed fir the handy boys who'd see an unattended car park as a pay day. Subject to that, I think it's important to have some sort of flagship pitch in Belfast. Reduce capacity and have the seats over the pitch - better atmosphere. And make the design modern and exceptional and something we can all be proud of. Smaller and high quality is the way to go. Modern stadiums don't need to be too high and should disguise their bulk; eg aviva is in my view a better looking and less bulky design than Croker. Residents less likely to object if they can see something elegant and not feeling they're being overshadowed by a big brute of a thing. Hope it and Clones both get done.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1074 - 03/03/2020 22:59:10    2272085

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Absolute joke building a stadium this size, why oh why do the GAA always insist on building stadiums that are far too big, and that rarely if ever get filled. As a few people on here have stated, build a a 10k stadium, and that will be more than sufficient for its purpose.

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 135 - 04/03/2020 07:13:24    2272107

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "that location in Belfast can't safely take a larger crowd anyway.. 

I'll just leave this here for you:


A panel of experts has unanimously backed spectator safety procedures in the redevelopment plan for Casement Park.

The endorsement from the group comprising all the main emergency services comes more than three years after the former chair of the same body triggered a Stormont inquiry when he revealed his concerns about the ill-fated first design for the west Belfast venue.

The Safety Technical Group (STG), which was set up to scrutinise plans to redevelop stadia in Northern Ireland, has verified steps taken by the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) to ensure the proposed 34,000-plus capacity stadium could be evacuated safely, with emergency vehicles able to get appropriate access.
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after the last safety group was run, yeah absolute faith in THAT process and THAT body ....and I even kept a straight face typin that

KeshGFC (Fermanagh) - Posts: 290 - 04/03/2020 09:46:02    2272120

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