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I agree with Edu's suggestion. The drawback though is that there are probably not enough weekends in the split season schedule. The league has a balanced format and is unlikely to change any time soon. The league has 8 weekends and 2 rest weekends. The provincial championships require 6 weekends and ideally there should be a week off after league finals. In Jarlath Burns' favoured 1, 2A & 2B, 3, QF, SF and final format, rounds 2, 3 and QFs will probably have to be on consecutive weekends. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 29/11/2024 23:48:42 2581737 Link 0 |
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it is run on one single League of 16 teams with each team having 4 games [up from 3 in the groups]. Each team will have 2 home and 2 away games. Currently for the group stage draw the teams are put into 4 pots of 4 as follows-It wud be the same in 16 Team League POT 1--------- 4 Provincial Champions POT 2----------4 Provincial Runners Up POT 3----------4 Highest League POT 4-----------Next 4 Highest League For the 4 game schedule each team is drawn to play one team from each pot. In Round 1 each team would play a team from their own pot followed by 1 team from the other 3 pots in the subsequent in 3 rounds When the Provincial Champions are meeting in Round 1- a rotational pairing could be in place as used to be in place for the A.I.C Semi Finals in the pre qualifier days. In the 140 year history of the G.A.A there has never being a meeting of Kerry and Dublin in the A.I.C in Kerry. How many teams to qualify for the K.O stages? 12 -------Too many 8 ------- Too few 10 ------- just about right Top 6 in 16 Team Table------- Directly to Q.F 7 to 10 in 16 Team Table------ Into P.Q.F ------- 7 home v 10 and 8 home v 9 From Q.F onwards highest ranked team from 16 Team Table plays the remaining lowest ranked team and so on. It means the teams finishing First and Second in Table can not meet until the Final. It would also be very beneficial if the 4 Q.F rather than being played in Croke Park were home games for the teams finishing in the top 4 positions in the Table. Probably be one Q.F game in Croke Park anyways.[If Dublin finish in Top 4]"]@edu (Mayo) - Posts: 64 - 29/11/2024 11:34:05 Some similarities with mine - 2 tiers of 16. You have a 4-game phase, so presumably your league would be played separately? I combine them - 12 matches (3 from each pot) - with Prov ties 'doubling up'/already deciding some of the 12. While UEFA randomizes opponents via computer software, I keep groups for ease of fixture construction only. Top 8 to AFL-style playoffs (1-4 two-chance PSFs; 5-8 KO PQFs) 9-20 to AI Shield KO (9-12 stay up & get PQF byes; 17-20 host 16-13 in PQFs & 4 winners go/stay up) 21-28 to AI Plate KO QFs (all 8 stay down, but can compete for a 'top 4, 17-20' Shield berth the next year) 29-32 do not advance. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 30/11/2024 02:17:18 2581741 Link 0 |
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A tiered provincial group stage is the best option. All county championships have a tiered structure. The provincial championships currently do not have a qualifying bar. County championships have a qualifying bar for intermediate and senior. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 01/12/2024 08:42:04 2581813 Link 0 |
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Not enough weekends in the season? And yet in mid season teams losing early in the Provincial Championships will wait anything from 4 up to in extreme cases 7 weeks for their next Championship game. This year Westmeath lost in Leinster on April 7 and played their 1st game in the A.I.C on May 25. In 2023 Cork lost in Munster on April 9 and played their 1st A.I.C game on May 27 [7 weeks in both cases].That is totally unbalanced surely? The question is? ----is this recognized as being an issue and if so what will happen. Will it be ? [a] nothing it is fine as it is. there will be some sort of attempt made to deal with it. [c] it will definitely be addressed. One rather radical solution [for the GAA anyway] would be to run the League and the Provincial Championships concurrently as happens in other sports. Here in Ireland the FAI run the League and Cup simultaneously along with some clubs also partaking in European competitions . Is there any good reason why this could not be even considered ? No team would go more than 3 weeks at maximum without a competitive game. It must be remembered that 95 % of delegates voted for this current set up back in 2022 and yet a big majority of people now want some sort of change to the 3 game group stage and hardly a mention of the big gaps in some teams game schedule as mentioned above As far as some lower division teams benefiting from lop sided Provincial draws and getting to Finals and thus qualifying for the A.I.C.--Is it really a benefit to those teams ? Take Clare for example who qualified for the last 2 A.I.C group stages and look odds to do the same next year which puts them on the same side of the draw as Tipperary and Waterford. It must be acknowledged that did beat Cork last year in Munster. Anyways in the group stages they lost all 6 games with a hefty minus scoring difference. Surely participating in the Tailteann Cup would be more advantageous with a genuine chance of at least getting to the Semi Finals and the caveat of a Croke Park game[ or 2] and live national T.V coverage As it is Clare could qualify for next years A.I.C group stage by winning Division 3 but could also lose out by doing the same thing. This would happen if they were to lose to Waterford/Tipperary in the Munster Semi Final and another D3/D4 division team [or is it 2? ] [it is a bit complex] were to reach any of the other 3 Provincial Finals. How ironic would that be? edu (Mayo) - Posts: 67 - 01/12/2024 18:15:42 2581897 Link 0 |
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I combine League & Prov KO - 12 matches (3 from each pot) - with Prov ties 'doubling up' as some of the 12 to reduce fixtures. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 01/12/2024 20:17:24 2581930 Link 0 |
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With Burn's preferred old Christy Ring format, I'd guess the preliminary quarter finals (Round 3) will be on the weekend before the quarter-finals. This way GAAGO will have the Round 3 games on the Saturday, with RTE showing the hurling quarter finals on the Sunday. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 01/12/2024 20:59:11 2581944 Link 0 |
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I don't mind two consecutive wkds, but three is a bit much. My schedule, based on my two tiers of 16, combined League-Championship: CALENDAR Week Activity -2 (mid Jan) Start of '2-3 game' Pre-Season 0 (end of Jan) End of Pre-Season Warm-Up 1 (start of Feb) Prov SFC Prelim Rd 2 Prov SFC QFs 2 (after QFs) AILC Draw (2 tiers of 4x4 or 6,5,5) 2 (after Draw) Prelim/QF results to league tables? 3 Bye Week 4 (end of Feb) Start of Regular Season 12 (end of Apr) Rd includes all 8 Prov SFs 16 & 17 (end of May) Rds include 4 Prov Finals 20 Last Regular Season Rd 21 (end of June) Bye Week 22 AIC PSFs/PQFs, AI Shield PQFs & AI Plate QFs 23 AIC QFs & AI Shield QFs 24 AI Plate SFs 25 (end of July) AIC SFs & AI Shield SFs 26 AI Plate Final 27 (2nd week of Aug) AIC Final & AI Shield Final omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 02/12/2024 00:48:21 2581969 Link 0 |
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Park all the discussions lads, because this weekend must have shown everyone is that if the perfect solution exists for the ruleset or format but it doesn't come from a small group of chosen ones then it won't happen. Outside input is unnecessary and they do not want to hear it. SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 443 - 02/12/2024 10:33:14 2581994 Link 0 |
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All three are now waning - one of them significantly more than the others.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 02/12/2024 12:43:27 2582026 Link 0 |
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The Super 8s came in for a reason. The current group stage of 3 advancing is unlikely to go beyond 2025. The GAA's preferred format for 2026 on will have to satisfy providing more meaningful games, with an edge. If supporters aren't paying through the turnstiles for meaningless games, there will be more changes again. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 02/12/2024 15:01:44 2582057 Link 0 |
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I suppose all things considered, that old 2017 "Christy Ring Cup" format (Rds 1, 2A/2B, 3, QFs etc) is superior to the group stage and will likely pass for 3 yrs.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 03/12/2024 13:43:23 2582184 Link 0 |
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It is an improvement. I will be curious on the finer detail. Especially any carrot for actually winning a provincial championship! Some of the general public will get lost on Rounds 2A and 2B. It'll be difficult to get on a bandwagon where you lose a provincial semi-final and then Round 1. But look, it is what it is and can only be found out in practice. 4/16 counties will start Round 1 having lost their previous match. If 14 non provincial finalists had to enter the jeopardy of a playoff qualifier, 11/16 counties would start in Round 1 having won their previous match. The previous year's Tailteann winner and the 4 provincial runners up would be the only 5 to have lost their previous match. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 04/12/2024 17:44:43 2582384 Link 0 |
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"12/16 counties will start Round 1 having lost their previous match." I meant to say. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 04/12/2024 19:07:31 2582394 Link 0 |
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How about 4 groups of 4 - each starting with a Prov Final? omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 05/12/2024 00:48:12 2582412 Link 0 |
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Seems a fair question. What happens when a provincial final goes to extra time or penalties? I don't think provincial councils would be in favour. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 05/12/2024 10:54:30 2582445 Link 0 |
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ET/Pens = 1 pt each. What would be Prov Council arguments against? You know what - if they accepted, I'd put more cheese in the mouse trap - a la SFs - then finally, with QFs/Prelims onboard - got ya! - got my "doubling up" :) As you've written before, GAA operates in incremental stages. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 05/12/2024 16:17:52 2582518 Link 0 |
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I have a solution to that "carrot & bandwagon": Ulster Champs gets 6-8 pts (if all opponents are top 16 teams). Add these pts to those earned in 8/9 other games played (similar workload to current League/Group Stage combined) - do the same for all other Prov ties - in a nutshell, my AI League-Championship is born. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 05/12/2024 16:33:33 2582521 Link 0 |
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While provincial finals are being played out, 7 league qualifiers and the Tailteann winner are waiting. They could play each other if finals doubled up as part of the group stage. Provincial finals, depending on the status of the final, attract a bigger crowd than All-Ireland round 1. I suppose provincial councils would see it distracting from the traditional finals. It is the best shout for your double up but I just cannot see more than 10% voting in favour of it. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 05/12/2024 21:17:00 2582555 Link 0 |
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The Munster hurling championship and the Joe McDonagh Cup are great competitions. Real bite, tenacity and value for money. Many years ago Tyrone county board, Dublin county board and my humble self agreed that the provincial winners should enter a Champions Round. 2 winners going on to semi-finals. The 2 losers playing 2 qualifiers in the quarter-finals. I would still prefer it but Congress were not in favour. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8385 - 05/12/2024 21:30:14 2582560 Link 0 |
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The 2 losers playing 2 qualifiers in the quarter-finals. I would still prefer it but Congress were not in favour. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2940 - 06/12/2024 03:21:07 2582575 Link 0 |