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Replying To seadog54: "At this stage its hard to know wheather its a genuine lack of understanding of the game or another one of you grudges against another manager? Truth be told it is a bit of both, lads are training and putting in a big effort, add in time and patience and the ship will start to turn. Fitness overall is at least on par and maybe a bit better. S/C as majority know takes time and patience. Overall your comments are misplaced and often spiteful, stop moaning and start to watch the games for enjoyment and not just to pick faults and rush on here to post rubbish. As for COR been my hero, I take no issue with that, himself and SB have done more for Meath football over the last forty years than anyone else and long may it continue." Now you are been delusional or just taking the pi55. On par or better ?? Hahaha. I got a good laugh out of that. Cop on Will u. You making yourself look like a clown
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2023 15:53:13
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Replying To brian: "Good man Latouche, I know we've had differences of opinions before (all reasonably healthy ones) and you've hit the nail on the head. S&C takes years to be built up, it's not something you take a pill for and you're suddenly cured. Nothing with this team is an instant fix, from S&C, game plans, mentality etc.
Saying let's replace a lad who jimmy mcguinness had working with his Donegal teams and trusted implicitly shows people are never happy. If we'd Micko, Sean Boylan, Jim Gavin, Eamonn Fitzmaurice, Mickey Harte and Jimmy McGuinness managing this team, there's some who'd still whinge… cos we are Meath… not realising we've not been Meath since Eamonn O'Brien was in charge." We were fitter last year. To say otherwise will just prove that you really have a agenda
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2023 15:54:07
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Anyway moving on from those with obvious delusions to the game itself. I want to see our fitness levels back up to last years. And perhaps the best way to treat Dublin is to go ultra defensively in first half , then have a cut in second. Keep the scores to a minimum.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2023 16:01:33
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Replying To royaldunne: "Anyway moving on from those with obvious delusions to the game itself. I want to see our fitness levels back up to last years. And perhaps the best way to treat Dublin is to go ultra defensively in first half , then have a cut in second. Keep the scores to a minimum." There's 4 or 5 people debating with you about the S&C, fitness, players but you want to move on because you are not able back up what you are posting.
As a player who only recently retired from senior football, it takes at least 18-24 months before you will see an improvement to players S&C. Most S&C coaches will tell you that, players will have to work up a base line before the go on to more complex lifts and moves.
It will also take roughly 8-12 weeks to get fitness levels up to a specific standard. Spoke to one of the Dublin players a few months back, to be getting a bronco test in under 5 minutes which is what is expected at senior inter county level it will take 2 to 3 running sessions a week over 8 weeks to hit that target.
He was saying that now how reduced the season is teams will have to use blocks of 4 weeks to work on S&C and fitness
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 409 - 11/03/2023 16:39:28
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Replying To Blackspot09: "On what evidence are you basing your opinion that the fitness is a bit better than it was previously? Because I haven't noticed that at all.
And as far as the S&C yourself and others are making out like this group were at literally zero in terms of S&C when this management came in which couldn't be further from the truth .
There was plenty of issues in the previous regime but S&C certainly was one of them. The vast majority of the panel had a very high level of S&C built up over the last 2/3 years so even with a new man in there probably doing things differently it shouldn't take very long to get them up to where they would be expected to be. Certainly not the time and patience you mention.
From the 5 games I've been at so far I don't see any improvement in lads S&C wise from the pre season cup competitions in January and in my opinion they Def don't look as well conditioned as in previous years at the same time of the season.
I certainly wouldn't be calling to get rid of anyone from the management at this early stage but I don't see any issue with people questioning the likes of the S&C if they feel it has fallen back a bit on previous years which quite a few people I've spoken to believe it has." Look, its only the evidence of my own eyes and opinion based on that. For me, s/c has always been a problem for us, we looked great in 2019, but once we played the much better teams we were shown up, its hard to imagine the standard needed until you come face to face with it. But even in Div two over last few years there has been times when several of our players were simply pushed aside and overpowered. Dublin, Mayo Galway, Rossies and quite a few more have proven the point. As you say many have different takes on this and all entitled to opinions. I would much prefer to give all the time needed and take a few knockbacks now, otherwise I can see us remaining a lower division two side and having same arguments year in year out.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 11/03/2023 17:27:06
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Replying To royaldunne: "Strength and conditioning is not something that takes years. And tbh ladies football is like comparing climbing croghan hill to Mount Everest , we were fit after been unfit in mcentee first year. Every player I mentioned was fitter last year. Actually those that came in are fitter than those that were there. So ur point isn't a valid one" Glad to see you now accept the massive difference between codes, seem to rember you posting Eamonn Murry was a good choice to take over from McEntee ?
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 11/03/2023 17:34:17
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "There's 4 or 5 people debating with you about the S&C, fitness, players but you want to move on because you are not able back up what you are posting.
As a player who only recently retired from senior football, it takes at least 18-24 months before you will see an improvement to players S&C. Most S&C coaches will tell you that, players will have to work up a base line before the go on to more complex lifts and moves.
It will also take roughly 8-12 weeks to get fitness levels up to a specific standard. Spoke to one of the Dublin players a few months back, to be getting a bronco test in under 5 minutes which is what is expected at senior inter county level it will take 2 to 3 running sessions a week over 8 weeks to hit that target.
He was saying that now how reduced the season is teams will have to use blocks of 4 weeks to work on S&C and fitness" The majority of the players have at least 18/24 months of S&C and some under their belt . Just because a new guy comes in they don't start back at square 1.
You seem to be suggesting this group is starting from scratch with S&C because it is a new S&C coach which quite frankly is a bizarre claim .
They started back in October in the Gym a few months after we were knocked out so not as if they hadn't been near a gym in a year after we lost to Clare last year.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1012 - 11/03/2023 17:58:54
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "There's 4 or 5 people debating with you about the S&C, fitness, players but you want to move on because you are not able back up what you are posting.
As a player who only recently retired from senior football, it takes at least 18-24 months before you will see an improvement to players S&C. Most S&C coaches will tell you that, players will have to work up a base line before the go on to more complex lifts and moves.
It will also take roughly 8-12 weeks to get fitness levels up to a specific standard. Spoke to one of the Dublin players a few months back, to be getting a bronco test in under 5 minutes which is what is expected at senior inter county level it will take 2 to 3 running sessions a week over 8 weeks to hit that target.
He was saying that now how reduced the season is teams will have to use blocks of 4 weeks to work on S&C and fitness" No I want to move on cause to say we are fitter this year than last is a downright lie and completely inaccurate. WE ARE NOT. I gave two reasons for it and he comes back with we are better than last year. So no point in debating that nonsense. If you think we are give me examples. Any player who was on last years team with maybe exception of Costello are way off where they were last year. That's a fact. A blind man could see that
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2023 19:53:46
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Replying To Blackspot09: "On what evidence are you basing your opinion that the fitness is a bit better than it was previously? Because I haven't noticed that at all.
And as far as the S&C yourself and others are making out like this group were at literally zero in terms of S&C when this management came in which couldn't be further from the truth .
There was plenty of issues in the previous regime but S&C certainly was one of them. The vast majority of the panel had a very high level of S&C built up over the last 2/3 years so even with a new man in there probably doing things differently it shouldn't take very long to get them up to where they would be expected to be. Certainly not the time and patience you mention.
From the 5 games I've been at so far I don't see any improvement in lads S&C wise from the pre season cup competitions in January and in my opinion they Def don't look as well conditioned as in previous years at the same time of the season.
I certainly wouldn't be calling to get rid of anyone from the management at this early stage but I don't see any issue with people questioning the likes of the S&C if they feel it has fallen back a bit on previous years which quite a few people I've spoken to believe it has." Exactly. There is no improvement in s&c or fitness this year SO FAR, the one thing we were in a good shape in that dept when new regime took over. People are talking like we weren't fit ffs. It's probably the best legacy previous s&c coach left us. (Not actually mcentee job) neither is it Colm's. We look unfit , and unable to keep up with runners. That hasn't been a problem of the past. It is now. And it's not that they have to get up there. They were there. Again I am talking about none of the new players just the ones from last years
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2023 19:59:20
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Replying To Blackspot09: "The majority of the players have at least 18/24 months of S&C and some under their belt . Just because a new guy comes in they don't start back at square 1.
You seem to be suggesting this group is starting from scratch with S&C because it is a new S&C coach which quite frankly is a bizarre claim .
They started back in October in the Gym a few months after we were knocked out so not as if they hadn't been near a gym in a year after we lost to Clare last year." It's totally bizarre. Are we really saying players who have been on the panel for years are starting at same level as McGowan and flood ? No. Actually in floods case he is from a junior club never played ic football and looks in better shape than those who have been there sone that. It's a bizarre comment to make.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2023 20:02:30
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Replying To Blackspot09: "The majority of the players have at least 18/24 months of S&C and some under their belt . Just because a new guy comes in they don't start back at square 1.
You seem to be suggesting this group is starting from scratch with S&C because it is a new S&C coach which quite frankly is a bizarre claim .
They started back in October in the Gym a few months after we were knocked out so not as if they hadn't been near a gym in a year after we lost to Clare last year." I wouldn't say the majority of players have that under their belt. Hogan, O Neill, Flood, O Higgins, O Connor, Flynn, McGowan, Crosby, O Hare, Brennan, Lynch and Moriarty which is nearly a third of the panel.
The players who have been there the last number of years won't be starting from square one but there will be a change in approach and different expectations set.
For example there could be more focus on olympic lifts which take time to get right and you have to start with a low rate and get the form right. Once you start to get these right it will allow to increase weight which will develop power.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 409 - 11/03/2023 21:11:35
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "I wouldn't say the majority of players have that under their belt. Hogan, O Neill, Flood, O Higgins, O Connor, Flynn, McGowan, Crosby, O Hare, Brennan, Lynch and Moriarty which is nearly a third of the panel.
The players who have been there the last number of years won't be starting from square one but there will be a change in approach and different expectations set.
For example there could be more focus on olympic lifts which take time to get right and you have to start with a low rate and get the form right. Once you start to get these right it will allow to increase weight which will develop power." Hogan and O'Connor have been on the panel since 2020 McGowan was also in that year and has been in and around it since then. Jack Flynn has been in since 2021 so your argument doesn't stack up with them. They all have 24 months of under their belt.
The fact is your claim that intercounty players who have 2/3 years of top quality S&C under their belt will need another 18/24 months to get back up to speed because there's a change in coach is just nonsense.
You can waffle away about ah maybe they are focusing on Olympic lifts instead of the dead lift or the squatting or any other exercise you can find the name of on Google but the fact is there is 3/4s of the squad at least with 2 or 3 years built up and to be quite honest it is not showing in any of the games I've seen.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1012 - 11/03/2023 21:39:35
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Replying To Blackspot09: "Hogan and O'Connor have been on the panel since 2020 McGowan was also in that year and has been in and around it since then. Jack Flynn has been in since 2021 so your argument doesn't stack up with them. They all have 24 months of under their belt.
The fact is your claim that intercounty players who have 2/3 years of top quality S&C under their belt will need another 18/24 months to get back up to speed because there's a change in coach is just nonsense.
You can waffle away about ah maybe they are focusing on Olympic lifts instead of the dead lift or the squatting or any other exercise you can find the name of on Google but the fact is there is 3/4s of the squad at least with 2 or 3 years built up and to be quite honest it is not showing in any of the games I've seen." This
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/03/2023 08:43:17
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Replying To seadog54: "At this stage its hard to know wheather its a genuine lack of understanding of the game or another one of you grudges against another manager? Truth be told it is a bit of both, lads are training and putting in a big effort, add in time and patience and the ship will start to turn. Fitness overall is at least on par and maybe a bit better. S/C as majority know takes time and patience. Overall your comments are misplaced and often spiteful, stop moaning and start to watch the games for enjoyment and not just to pick faults and rush on here to post rubbish. As for COR been my hero, I take no issue with that, himself and SB have done more for Meath football over the last forty years than anyone else and long may it continue." Yes.....Agreed 100% COR and Sean Boylan owe us nothing. In fact we owe these men a lot. I find myself a little impatient with some silly mistakes in last few matches. Then i ask myself am i fair here ? This era has just begun and logic suggests wait for the 2 years Colm spoke about.I want to see continuous improvement and i will attempt to re calibrate the measurement gauge for continuous improvement. So even a keyboard warrior can learn from experience.
Admittedly Colm didnt leave outside me outside the door for the geography class or any other class. Now i do know that happened as Tommy Tiernan declared We might have some more declarations here on this forum maybe ? I dont Know Colm O Rourke from Adam in any capacity. Dont Know Sean Boylan either .I regard both these men as outstanding Meathmen who have been there ,done that,and wore the jersey. Sometimes you wonder is a particular poster just looking for weaknesses because of WHO it happens to be.Then if Colm happens to read this stuff (which i doubt) he would be smart enough to see the comic value .Colm has a great sense of humour as we all have seen on Tommy Tiernan show. He knows that supporters will nag,and be critical but hope things improve .That is par for the course ! Give it a right good lash Colm .As you said you will be going when you have given it a fair shot. I dont think COR needs to be told what to do with the begrudgers.HON THE ROYAL !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 12/03/2023 12:48:50
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Replying To nobull456: "Yes.....Agreed 100% COR and Sean Boylan owe us nothing. In fact we owe these men a lot. I find myself a little impatient with some silly mistakes in last few matches. Then i ask myself am i fair here ? This era has just begun and logic suggests wait for the 2 years Colm spoke about.I want to see continuous improvement and i will attempt to re calibrate the measurement gauge for continuous improvement. So even a keyboard warrior can learn from experience.
Admittedly Colm didnt leave outside me outside the door for the geography class or any other class. Now i do know that happened as Tommy Tiernan declared We might have some more declarations here on this forum maybe ? I dont Know Colm O Rourke from Adam in any capacity. Dont Know Sean Boylan either .I regard both these men as outstanding Meathmen who have been there ,done that,and wore the jersey. Sometimes you wonder is a particular poster just looking for weaknesses because of WHO it happens to be.Then if Colm happens to read this stuff (which i doubt) he would be smart enough to see the comic value .Colm has a great sense of humour as we all have seen on Tommy Tiernan show. He knows that supporters will nag,and be critical but hope things improve .That is par for the course ! Give it a right good lash Colm .As you said you will be going when you have given it a fair shot. I dont think COR needs to be told what to do with the begrudgers.HON THE ROYAL !" Are we fitter than last year. Yes or no ???
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/03/2023 13:22:24
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Replying To Blackspot09: "Hogan and O'Connor have been on the panel since 2020 McGowan was also in that year and has been in and around it since then. Jack Flynn has been in since 2021 so your argument doesn't stack up with them. They all have 24 months of under their belt.
The fact is your claim that intercounty players who have 2/3 years of top quality S&C under their belt will need another 18/24 months to get back up to speed because there's a change in coach is just nonsense.
You can waffle away about ah maybe they are focusing on Olympic lifts instead of the dead lift or the squatting or any other exercise you can find the name of on Google but the fact is there is 3/4s of the squad at least with 2 or 3 years built up and to be quite honest it is not showing in any of the games I've seen." Flynn, McGowan, Hogan and O Connor wouldn't be in the condition they are in at the minute if they had done 2/3 years top quality S&C work.
You can see the lads who have put it in for a number of years in Keoghan, McEntee, O Sullivan, O Reilly, Jones, Conlon, Walsh are all at a different level than the other fellas
In the last couple of years teams have put more of a focus on Olympic lifts and plyo work to increase that explosive power, some teams like Mayo, Tyrone, Dublin are more advanced so others are catching up.
S&C is only a small 5% though, fitness, nutrition, recovery all play important factors. Lads can be doing all the S&C they want but if nutrition, sleep and recovery isn't there then it will take longer to see the benefits.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 409 - 12/03/2023 13:49:33
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Replying To royaldunne: "Are we fitter than last year. Yes or no ???" This
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 12/03/2023 13:50:08
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Replying To royaldunne: "Are we fitter than last year. Yes or no ???" Fitness is not the issue at present. The basic football skills (well documented) so often and needing attention are the issue. Too soon to expect any significant improvement. Dont worry Colm will do the job but it will take time. Refreshingly as he said he will go in 2 years if not. I dont think he will outstay his welcome .We live and we learn!
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 12/03/2023 13:59:05
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Replying To royaldunne: "Are we fitter than last year. Yes or no ???" Yes. We're not starting slow and we're not fading out of games, the ones we lost we were in with a chance of winning.
Derry is the exception here as they are a lot further on in their development.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 409 - 12/03/2023 14:24:04
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Replying To UsernameInvalid: "Yes. We're not starting slow and we're not fading out of games, the ones we lost we were in with a chance of winning.
Derry is the exception here as they are a lot further on in their development." No we are not. If I was you I'd go to specsavers.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/03/2023 14:37:04
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