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Hardto know what to think about today.
Looking at panel assembled by management for first time really it was disappointing.hardvto pick out anyone that shone today.have to bequestions are they goin to improve us if needed to come in to play.
As regards the goalie situation we kicked long ball all first half.then changed goalie and went short in second.trying kick long ball into forwards where conlon again is small lad.joey wallace as half forward not his position better inside hasnt the power to break a tackle so far out.free taker big lad but seemed lost on frees.not much from play from him.these lads not much competition for the starting 15 maybe thats on purpose.
Could be worrying if keogan menton harnan injured.no rest when champ starts.
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 30/05/2021 21:03:02
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Replying To redser123: "very little gained from that game bar the return of Mickey Newman, i thought Joey wallace set up a bad afternoon for meath by fumbling a simple hand-pass receive from which mayo ran down and scored a goal from. These mistakes just simply cant happen if we are to get anywhere." Great to see mickey Newman back he's brings great experience and awareness. Think it was Scully and not joey Wallace who lost possession. He wasn't playing that far back. Thought Lavin and mcgill did well for fellas with little protection.
You could see meath gain more control when keogan and harnan came on. Not easy when you make so many changes but it's all about 2 weeks time.
rubia (Meath) - Posts: 26 - 30/05/2021 21:07:15
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Replying To Crinigan: "Needlessly lost momentum. Even if a good performance in a narrow loss - would have kept momentum.
McStay alluded to this in his commentary - not fair to give lads a baptism of fire in a made up team. Does them no good. Better off making max 3 debutants but keep main spine of team, at least for first half (like Mayo did)." We don't often agree but I would agree with this. I would have much rather Jack O'Connor, Wallace, Flynn sprinkled in amongst starters. Although at the same time we've come through the game with no injuries. But also not much learned about the new guys because they were all playing together rather than being support type players to the main guys
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1527 - 30/05/2021 21:09:07
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Replying To seadog54: "Its a coin toss to decide venue for Kildare game" Don't agree with that either, even in "normal times" a league semi final or playoff would be a game for a neutral venue, both the Division 2 semi finals are huge games for all 4 teams involved and personally I don't think any team should have home advantage in a game of such importance
Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3744 - 30/05/2021 22:31:32
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Can't read too much into that game, bad cocktail where we had a very inexperienced side playing into a stiff breeze vs a experienced Mayo outfit.
Few positives for me were
- Micky Newman coming back, gave us a different outlet as he can fight and win ball, will be a good addition, showed his class with the long range point.
- I thought jack o connor played well; made mistakes no doubt but he has real ability.
- conlan grew into the game and showed his potential, when we have Newman/walsh to be a focal point he will improve.
Not much else to take from it, The usual suspects of menton McGill and lavin performed well. Harnan and keogan brought it up a level too. When we got back to 7 points the two black cards ended it, one thing to keep an eye on for me is our discipline, we are giving away frees and black cards in scoring zones which needs to be ironed out. Wasn't any issue last year really so hope it can be ironed out
Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 30/05/2021 22:41:50
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Replying To Borderroyal: "Hardto know what to think about today.
Looking at panel assembled by management for first time really it was disappointing.hardvto pick out anyone that shone today.have to bequestions are they goin to improve us if needed to come in to play.
As regards the goalie situation we kicked long ball all first half.then changed goalie and went short in second.trying kick long ball into forwards where conlon again is small lad.joey wallace as half forward not his position better inside hasnt the power to break a tackle so far out.free taker big lad but seemed lost on frees.not much from play from him.these lads not much competition for the starting 15 maybe thats on purpose.
Could be worrying if keogan menton harnan injured.no rest when champ starts." Mayo started 7/8 panel members and they seemed to fit in well to their system, however they retained experience in every line. We still lack strength in depth and only way for these lads to improve is to get game time. Think management went about this in the wrong way, could easily have given four/five a start but sprinkled throughout the field. As a result we lost all our shape as a team. Even Hickey struggled in very inexperienced h/b line.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 30/05/2021 22:42:11
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Replying To Borderroyal: "Hardto know what to think about today.
Looking at panel assembled by management for first time really it was disappointing.hardvto pick out anyone that shone today.have to bequestions are they goin to improve us if needed to come in to play.
As regards the goalie situation we kicked long ball all first half.then changed goalie and went short in second.trying kick long ball into forwards where conlon again is small lad.joey wallace as half forward not his position better inside hasnt the power to break a tackle so far out.free taker big lad but seemed lost on frees.not much from play from him.these lads not much competition for the starting 15 maybe thats on purpose.
Could be worrying if keogan menton harnan injured.no rest when champ starts." I think the most disappointing thing was that it's just more of the same kind of players, none really with the potential to be better than what's there already. I wouldn't have minded a trimming if I could see what's different that these lads bring to the panel.
For example where's the tall midfielder who can field a few marks in midfield for you? Even if not the athleticism or even good enough to be a starter, there must be one somewhere that can be on the panel. Was there a single mark won from a kick out today by Meath? Where's the next tenacious back or man marker coming from on this panel? The next free taker? They all seem to be the same kinds of player. Any headbangers to set a tone? Any creative skillful players?
The panel is basically one ok goalkeeper, McGill, Menton, Keoghan, Hickey, Newman, Harnan, Morris, O'Sullivan and then about thirty 6/10 average half fwds/backs.
Apart from Shane McEntee and maybe Ronan Ryan, has any player really improved from being with the Meath panel these past 4 years?
Does it look to anyone like we have a number of kickout strategies in place (say 12/13 different combinations that we run) and that long standing players or players coming in are drilled in the calls for them?
Do we have a coherent defensive strategy? What's our attacking plan? Are we a pressing team or we retreat and try and counter? What do we do when teams push up on our kickours? What do we do when we've no free taker on the pitch (see how innovative Dublin have been without Rock this year, they've had all kinds of variations with short frees and runners rather than kicking free after free wide? What different tactical or positional variations have we tried against different teams? (I can think of only one - 2019 Leinster which might have worked if we had any kind of a free taker to keep us in the game at vital times)?
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 31/05/2021 00:21:17
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Replying To winatallcost: "What would your starting team be. Surely Newman will feature at some stage now? Many of these guys have had substitute impacts so far but am really disappointed with the limited quality in the squad past the starting team." My team would be
Colgan
Lavin
McGill
Harkin
Hickey
Mcentee
Keoghan
Menton
Harnan
James Conlon
McMahon
Costello
Morris
Newman
O'Sullivan
Subs , wallace by 2, scully, Reilly, Dixon
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/05/2021 07:52:54
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Replying To Crinigan: "Needlessly lost momentum. Even if a good performance in a narrow loss - would have kept momentum.
McStay alluded to this in his commentary - not fair to give lads a baptism of fire in a made up team. Does them no good. Better off making max 3 debutants but keep main spine of team, at least for first half (like Mayo did)." Would agree with you on this. Too many changes. I can see managements point. However there was no way the team that started had ever played as a unit even in training.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/05/2021 08:32:51
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Replying To Crinigan: "I think the most disappointing thing was that it's just more of the same kind of players, none really with the potential to be better than what's there already. I wouldn't have minded a trimming if I could see what's different that these lads bring to the panel.
For example where's the tall midfielder who can field a few marks in midfield for you? Even if not the athleticism or even good enough to be a starter, there must be one somewhere that can be on the panel. Was there a single mark won from a kick out today by Meath? Where's the next tenacious back or man marker coming from on this panel? The next free taker? They all seem to be the same kinds of player. Any headbangers to set a tone? Any creative skillful players?
The panel is basically one ok goalkeeper, McGill, Menton, Keoghan, Hickey, Newman, Harnan, Morris, O'Sullivan and then about thirty 6/10 average half fwds/backs.
Apart from Shane McEntee and maybe Ronan Ryan, has any player really improved from being with the Meath panel these past 4 years?
Does it look to anyone like we have a number of kickout strategies in place (say 12/13 different combinations that we run) and that long standing players or players coming in are drilled in the calls for them?
Do we have a coherent defensive strategy? What's our attacking plan? Are we a pressing team or we retreat and try and counter? What do we do when teams push up on our kickours? What do we do when we've no free taker on the pitch (see how innovative Dublin have been without Rock this year, they've had all kinds of variations with short frees and runners rather than kicking free after free wide? What different tactical or positional variations have we tried against different teams? (I can think of only one - 2019 Leinster which might have worked if we had any kind of a free taker to keep us in the game at vital times)?" I would echo a lot of this statement.
cabbage (Meath) - Posts: 162 - 31/05/2021 10:43:05
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I think that considering that they had only 2 games so far and no O'Byrne Cup games that he made a bad decision in making such wholesale changes and handed the game to Mayo. Perhaps he was right to change the goalie as you need to give the replacement a shot but even that was a marginal call as the goalie needs to build up experience in linking with the defence etc. At the end of the day Andy is with the players and has been picked as manager to make these calls. I just am surprised at the scale of the changes and when too many changes are made the new players are not coming into the real team and I am not sure how much good it did them.
I suppose at least we did not lose any of our top players to injury and hopefully Andy will prove justified if we beat Kildare.
stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 31/05/2021 10:45:55
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Replying To Crinigan: "I think the most disappointing thing was that it's just more of the same kind of players, none really with the potential to be better than what's there already. I wouldn't have minded a trimming if I could see what's different that these lads bring to the panel.
For example where's the tall midfielder who can field a few marks in midfield for you? Even if not the athleticism or even good enough to be a starter, there must be one somewhere that can be on the panel. Was there a single mark won from a kick out today by Meath? Where's the next tenacious back or man marker coming from on this panel? The next free taker? They all seem to be the same kinds of player. Any headbangers to set a tone? Any creative skillful players?
The panel is basically one ok goalkeeper, McGill, Menton, Keoghan, Hickey, Newman, Harnan, Morris, O'Sullivan and then about thirty 6/10 average half fwds/backs.
Apart from Shane McEntee and maybe Ronan Ryan, has any player really improved from being with the Meath panel these past 4 years?
Does it look to anyone like we have a number of kickout strategies in place (say 12/13 different combinations that we run) and that long standing players or players coming in are drilled in the calls for them?
Do we have a coherent defensive strategy? What's our attacking plan? Are we a pressing team or we retreat and try and counter? What do we do when teams push up on our kickours? What do we do when we've no free taker on the pitch (see how innovative Dublin have been without Rock this year, they've had all kinds of variations with short frees and runners rather than kicking free after free wide? What different tactical or positional variations have we tried against different teams? (I can think of only one - 2019 Leinster which might have worked if we had any kind of a free taker to keep us in the game at vital times)?" Lavin has improved immensely. I think Menton has improved a lot, in particular going forward. Cillian O'Sullivan has improved an awful lot the last 2 seasons. I think McMahon has gotten better. And then crucially as a team look at our results 4 years ago and our results now. Our consistency of performance has gone way up. And even when it dips like Westmeath a few weeks ago, Offaly 2019, Kildare last year we claw our way through. I get your point about players being similar but look at Tyrone (Meyler, Burns, McGeary) and Dublin (Bugler, McDaid, Lowndes) . They have players that are carbon copies of eachother in the middle third. Football has become such a collective 15 man attack then 15 man defend game that individualism has become far more diminished. And personally I'd rather the 6/10 player with consistent performance rather than the Graham Reilly type who could be a world beater, and then be a disaster the next day with little work rate, and not trying stuff. In the modern game of football you can't carry lads who aren't incredibly fit and can get round the pitch apart from one lad in the inside forward line and even then at the top level they get exposed
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1527 - 31/05/2021 11:07:08
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Replying To Crinigan: "It's the same team that lost every game in Div 1 and hasn't beaten a top 8 team in any competitive match. It's a div 2 team and not necessarily a top div 2 team depending on the makeup of Div 2 in a given year.
Ask yourself, is McEntee getting even close to the most of the best footballers in Meath or the best available team? Seems so little original thought goes into his setup." Looking at performance with club teams in provincial, performance at minor and 20's over the last 10 years, Sigerson representation then we are clearly behind Dublin, Kildare, Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Kerry, Cork, Monaghan, Donegal, Tyrone, maybe even Derry based on that. We've been horrendous at all these building blocks for most of the last 10 years. And yet we're 1 game away from another promotion. And you just said it's a division 2 teams and not necessarily a top division 2 team. But it certainly isn't close to a bottom division 2 team at all. So your label of division 2/3 is clearly wrong. We aren't near a division 3 team. And the last 2 times we've been in division 2 we're close to a top division 2 team
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1527 - 31/05/2021 11:12:22
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Replying To Richieq: "Don't agree with that either, even in "normal times" a league semi final or playoff would be a game for a neutral venue, both the Division 2 semi finals are huge games for all 4 teams involved and personally I don't think any team should have home advantage in a game of such importance" Yep. It's nonsensical
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/05/2021 11:50:42
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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "Looking at performance with club teams in provincial, performance at minor and 20's over the last 10 years, Sigerson representation then we are clearly behind Dublin, Kildare, Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Kerry, Cork, Monaghan, Donegal, Tyrone, maybe even Derry based on that. We've been horrendous at all these building blocks for most of the last 10 years. And yet we're 1 game away from another promotion. And you just said it's a division 2 teams and not necessarily a top division 2 team. But it certainly isn't close to a bottom division 2 team at all. So your label of division 2/3 is clearly wrong. We aren't near a division 3 team. And the last 2 times we've been in division 2 we're close to a top division 2 team" Andy & Co get a D+ for the main Exam they faced yesterday....which was to get the Balance right between a solid & experienced shape while at the same time trying to keep the panel "fresh" and enthused by getting some game time into some players for all their hard work & effort to date
Im not for one moment saying that getting that balance right ...is easy...its not...because it includes a desire to rest players , an assessment of intention of opposition & an overall sense of momentum , and trying to balance out all these concerns & more...
So ...imo ...The Management get the mark ive given them above.....
I would have thought that THE most important factor in getting MOST, im not saying all , of your objectives achieved yesterday...was to get a solid Foothold & start in the game....so to me that was about being "in " the game at half time.
there was far too much inexperience in the original line up.
And lets ot be fooled by the inclusion of Harkin & Hickey in the back 6 and lets not kid ourselves by saying that these are "experienced Senior Inter County men...they are not....they will be in time....but its not yet
So...IM unsure what we got from yesterday...other than an lingering suspicion that Our Panel...is still really only Div 2 Standard , and we have a road to go before its good enough to survive for any period in Div 1 other than one season
And BTW....that is not bad....The most important point to know , other than your destination , in starting a Journey , is where You are at presently....and that is the bit i'm worried Andy doesn't have a handle on
Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 31/05/2021 11:54:28
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Replying To royaldunne: "My team would be
Colgan
Lavin
McGill
Harkin
Hickey
Mcentee
Keoghan
Menton
Harnan
James Conlon
McMahon
Costello
Morris
Newman
O'Sullivan
Subs , wallace by 2, scully, Reilly, Dixon" Colgan
Ryan
Mcgill
Lavin
Hickey
Keoghan
Costello
Harnan
Menton
Scully
O sullivan
F.reilly
Morris
Reilly
Mcmahon
Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 31/05/2021 11:56:43
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Welp I'm not sure what to make of yesterday at all.
Firstly, what was the point of naming a team and the making 8 changes before the match. Andy has made some strange calls in his time and this was right up there withe the best of them. I remember Banty did similar in his time and was rIghtly called out on it. We started Hogan, Dillon, Flynn and O'Connor for the first time in a competitive match. Brian Conlon started after no game time in rounds one and two, scores a goal and once again gets hauled off by Andy. If Conlon walks away again don't think we can have any complaints. There's a great player within him but Andy seems oblivious to that player.
To start a team like he did, with 8 pre game changes against a top side like Mayo was beyond a joke. If this comes back and bites him in the ass and we don't get a result v Kildare then its time Andy was shown the door.
Indiscipline
As someone has said previously indiscipline is going to hurt this team badly. 4 black cards across the last two games and Harkin has picked up 2 of them, take a seat on the bench young man. I used to give Shane Gallagher an awful time of it but he'd be a welcome sight in this team. At least he fouled in the corners where free's were difficult. We're giving awa far too many simple and easy free's and this will only increase against better opposition, We've 2 of the best referee's in the country, how are we not availing of some guidance from them. Dublin do it with Joe McQuillan, so why can't we. Its the same lazy tackles every time.
Kickouts
Again the lack of strategy will kill us. Mayo knew what to do as does every team in Ireland and yet we kicked balls figuratively right into their hands. Asking where's the next great midfielder who can take a mark is a nonsense when we don't have a competent strategy to restart the game. Every team in the country has some kind of strategy and yet here we are year 5 under Andy McEntee and still the same old failing.
Free taking
We'd 3 new free takers today in Flynn, Banty and Newman. Not sure if i remember O'Connor taking any but same old failings. Flynn had no routine and missed 3 free's. A free taking routine is an absolute starting point and he didn't even have that. A big boot yes, but an accurate one, no. Again year 5 under Andy McEntee and still the same old failing. Get it sorted out Andy, one free taker, get them with a kicking coach and develop their technique. I haven't the first cousin of a coach badge or qualification and i know this.
Attacking plan
Still no composure from some players and working a score from a high percentage shot. Our conversion rate is awful and we are only about 50% at best in scoring terms from chances created. This is abysmal, we lack an understanding to not take pot shots and work the ball to a player in a better position. The best teams in the country have conversion rates in the 80% range and that's where we need to get to.
This game v Kildare is Andy's make or break game. He needs to absolutely nail this one or I'm afraid for me it should be curtains, there's some very god players there but I don't think he is getting the best out of them and his own tactics and inability to change could ultimately cost him his job.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 31/05/2021 12:17:30
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Replying To Borderroyal: "Colgan
Ryan
Mcgill
Lavin
Hickey
Keoghan
Costello
Harnan
Menton
Scully
O sullivan
F.reilly
Morris
Reilly
Mcmahon" I'm not having a go at you in saying this but Shane McEntee will 100% start. He's the captain now so regardless of how god or bad he's playing (and IMHO he's been serviceable this year) he will start. For me after the last two games and two black cards Harkin shouldn't start. Ryan is a better player and should be playing.
I'd imagine they'll go with
Colgan
Lavin
McGill
Ryan
Keoghan
S McEntee
-----
Harnan
Menton
-------
-------
Costello
Morris
-------
O'Sullivan
the ------- are where I'm not sure who Andy will pick.
It's likely he goes Hickey, Scully, McMahon, Reilly/Newman
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 31/05/2021 12:32:14
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And the job just got harder. Game v Kildare will be in St Conleth's park. You've two weeks to save your job Andy and I wouldn't be putting money on it happening.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 31/05/2021 12:46:03
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Replying To Borderroyal: "Colgan
Ryan
Mcgill
Lavin
Hickey
Keoghan
Costello
Harnan
Menton
Scully
O sullivan
F.reilly
Morris
Reilly
Mcmahon" Why take off mcentee? When he has been playing very well, is it just cause of who is father is ?
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 31/05/2021 13:02:27
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