Meath Forum

Meath V Dublin

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Replying To Crinigan:  "This is my concern.

Will Keoghan etc keep on? Will our youngsters decide to travel now next summer post Corona? What's keeping them here, another hammering? Can they still believe in setup that put them out (with seemingly no plan, no kickout and free takers) to be like lambs to the slaughter?

Thing is who do we have to come in as manager? Unfortunately many of our more astute ex players are v disinterested these days. No Giles or Cian Ward etc interested in managing. Kevin Reilly? Very little standout candidates. In any case, the backroom setup is as important these days.

If going outside I'd love Jim McGuinness personally as he has great admiration for Meath football as well being an extraordinary manager ... but he's following a soccer career now."
Mickey Harte would do a great job for ye, if ye were brave enough to go for him....!

Like I said earlier - ye were over hyped by far too many this year.
It totally focused Dublin on the job at hand.
Kildare blew the semi imo - they had the game won at half time but defensively effed up in 2nd half, and were at fault for their own downfall.

Both Keoghan and Menton will be 30 next year and they are the back bone of that squad so you need to ensure they stay on....

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 4051 - 22/11/2020 11:04:07    2312574

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Replying To Fionn:  "Mickey Harte would do a great job for ye, if ye were brave enough to go for him....!

Like I said earlier - ye were over hyped by far too many this year.
It totally focused Dublin on the job at hand.
Kildare blew the semi imo - they had the game won at half time but defensively effed up in 2nd half, and were at fault for their own downfall.

Both Keoghan and Menton will be 30 next year and they are the back bone of that squad so you need to ensure they stay on...."
Not sure Mickey Harte can connect to younger players anymore. He's very religious and spiritual and this kind of holistic approach wouldn't suit these Meath lads ... Tyrone players more culturally in tune with their identity, including their Catholicism etc. Maybe we could get him in as a CEO of some sort to over see the county but we've no money for that. He also hasn't done much v Dublin. McGuinness had their number.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/11/2020 11:19:41    2312588

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Replying To winatallcost:  "You honestly think that is good enough after 4 years work?"
You are basing the progress made of the last 4 years off 1 match? Open your eyes

Harnan6 (Meath) - Posts: 35 - 22/11/2020 11:20:58    2312589

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Replying To Borderroyal:  "Not one tackle was been made around the field you cant tell me that one team is tackling likedogs.the other is shadowing players.this had to be coming from line to have a complete malfunction on team on this.has to go back to coaching.it was in the game plan did it work no.was it changed no.did we have any other plan fir this no."
I have gone up to Dunganny and watched the Meath Senior team training sessions and every time I watched those sessions and although it was evident that the spirit was very good in the camp I was thinking, am I watching the top level of coaching In our county?
Of course there are inequalities when it comes to what funding Dublin get and they have a lot of better players but that cannot excuse Meath's basic fundamental flaws exhibited last night, no tackling, no marking, no plan A, B or C, poor tactical considerations prior to the game.
If Dr Tony Holohan wanted to devise tactics how to play a game safely during the pandemic, he would promote the Meath team tactics of social distancing and avoiding contact with players from other teams when the other team has the ball.
For anyone to say Andy should stay after what happened last night have some other agenda other than wanting the best for Meath football. Either the job he asked the players to do, they didn't listen to him or they did as he instructed and that what happens when you are so off in your tactics. Either way there is not an ounce of justification in Andy remaining on. Picture yourself as a player on the panel, how in gods holy name would you have any confidence or even wanting to bother to listen to someone who has got it so wrong. Almost everybody watching Meath since Andy took over (with the even basic understanding of the game) knew what needed to be sorted and in 4 years he has failed to do so.
To give all those young players hope and reason to stay involved, give someone else the job.
It's a sad day for football in Meath and trying to encourage young fellas to be involved.
What needs to be investigated is how Meath teams have been beating Dublin at Minor level and yet when those same players move onto U20 and Senior level Dublin hammer us.
It might not seem fair considering all the time and effort Andy has put in but in the best Interests and the future of Meath football Andy has to step aside and if he doesn't he Unfortunately will have to be pushed.

Meathball (Meath) - Posts: 140 - 22/11/2020 11:26:37    2312593

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Fact is lads ye are simply not good enough. That was embarrassing last night. We've got the same tonkings from Dublin and Mayo. We ain't near their level either. It may never happen that we'll get there. But what's the alternative..roll over and die?
Keep building with youth and financial investment.
Everyone knows that Dublin are in a different stratosphere in terms of funding, sponsorship and facilities. You simply have to bounce back in sport. In the context of what was been celebrated there tonite, like no one died, it's sport..get back on that horse again.

moros (Roscommon) - Posts: 1110 - 22/11/2020 11:36:12    2312603

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Replying To round_ball_99:  "Would you not agree that that's the way the game is played at club level in Meath? The senior clubs are vastly inferior to other counties when they compete in the Leinster club championship. Only a few referees allow high intensity tackling and the county has suffered as a consequence."
Yes you have valid point.but my point was how could a whole team not be putting in tackles.never seen us as least agressive in our approach.we have been struggling with first half problems since andy came in.goalie issues.5 years now and suddenly its goin to change.dont think so.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 22/11/2020 11:38:17    2312608

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Just glancing over the posts this morning and the majority of them are far more embarressing then last nights performance. I wonder do some of yee actually follow or even understand Gaelic football. I would summarise our current standing as a terribly dissapointing performance last night, bet by a superb team, but we are managed by a very driven guy that has clearly made massive strides and will continue to do so if let. Getting rid of Andy would set the whole thing back years, maybe if he was brought in when he first applied we'd be 3 years further on and in a better place. Of course he has made mistakes, like they all do bar Dublin management it would seem, but I shudder to think of who the alternative would be..... no doubt all the meath club journeyman will be suggested. All this, he's to blame, get rid of him, we need change is clueless mob rule talk...... we need to continue what we are doing, bringing through young talent, working hard, trying to develop them, keep our manager and his set up, sort out keeper situation and aim to bounce back to div 1 at the first attempt."
Managed by a very driven man is no excuse for such poor tactics my freind.your either head stuck in the sand not to see whats plainly in front of you.
Making the same mistake 5 years in a row with goalie how is that good.in a the most important position on the field.look around you with other teams and how they relieve pressure on there plays.we have weakness there that other teams exploit.only dubs been the dubs maximise their pressure on us.if you cant see this dont be voming on here saying other people have no clue bout gaelic gamrs.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 496 - 22/11/2020 11:43:49    2312611

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Sorry to burst the bubble, but no the Super 8s won't be happening next year. They were just a 3 year trial"
I am aware no super 8s in 2020. I was referring to 2021.

meath87889699 (Meath) - Posts: 41 - 22/11/2020 12:07:46    2312632

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Replying To Crinigan:  "What went wrong tonight?

1. Farcical kickout strategy and a goalkeeper with no shot stopping ability or presence.

2. We took to the field in a Leinster final with no free taker whatsoever yet presumably expected to compete.

3, Tactically set up all wrong seemingly, huge gaps down the middle of the pitch and Dublin destroyed us on their kickouts.

4. Zero aggression. No hits, no belts, no fights. Paid huge respect and were very very passive.

At least 3 of the above lie at managements door ( I've no idea what Colm Nally does but the evidence of his work isn't encouraging).

We can talk about good young players coming through and teams developing but don't they deserve a manager who gives them a chance with the above basics in place? McEntee can be very hard on his players and is very intense... don't see why we can't ask him serious questions.

For me the goalkeeping and free taking situation after 4 years means it's the end of the road, I'm sorry to say. It's simply unacceptable.

Any ideas who should take over?"
Tonigh has shown that Meath have not improved one jot in the last four years, nothing has been done to address all of the issues you have listed. This is just basic stuff, free taker, kickouts, midfield/half-forwards that can field a ball a target man inside who can win his own ball. Felt sorry for this young team sent out as usual with no real game plan and certainly no plan B. Foolishly thought some of the issues would be addressed at first water break, however, management have shown time and time again they cannot come up with any plan in real time. Sick of hearing about clever coach and driven manager, where is there any evidence that Meath have improved over their term in charge? They tell all who will listen what a talented group they work with, yet the fail time and time again to get best out of them. We got promoted from a very poor Division 2 and management have been living off that since. The alarm bells were ringing loudly after Kildare game, but most choose to ignore. Management have had ample time to sort out the various and recurring flaws but have failed spectacularly, time for new voices and ideas in dressingroom.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2196 - 22/11/2020 12:55:16    2312652

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Replying To Harnan6:  "You are basing the progress made of the last 4 years off 1 match? Open your eyes"
We can't be building in perpetuity. Since last year's promotion we've been absolutely hammered by Dublin twice and didn't win a game in Div 1. We might well now lose lot of our better players. Just because few young lads blooded, it doesn't mean we're progressing. What happens if we don't get promoted next year? Still progressing? Are we that much better than when we were beaten by Longford 2 years ago? I don't see it.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/11/2020 13:16:30    2312676

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Replying To Richieq:  "To say I'm deflated, annoyed, frustrated, angry, upset etc etc would be an understatement but we must try and look at the realities of tonight. Firstly Dublin were awesome, they played with a relentless intensity and football flair that no one would live with let alone a young team like ours, they also played like a team that knew Kerry, the one team they would look at with a raised eyebrow, were out of the championship and that realistically no one else left in the field has a chance of beating them, they know 6 in a row is now firmly in their grasp and their play tonight showed that belief. We needed a good confident start but fluffed our lines in front of goal, too slow and taking too much out of the ball led to giving up decent goal chances in the early going, Dublin get a goal to go 1-2 to 0-2 up and the blue wave rises and we are drowned beyond saving in the 10 or so minutes thereafter. Dublin are not Kildare or Wicklow and you will not retrieve a situation against them when you give them a sufficient lead in championship football. Now we done ourselves no favours, we gave them oceans of room and never put any intensity into out tackles and at times our ball handling was terribly poor, our kick outs were a disaster and we lost/gave away possession far too easily, I expected to see fight and determination but by the 20 minute mark we were a sinking ship and confidence was shot, to say it was sobering viewing was an understatement. So where now? Change management? Personally I don't think so, the one grace is that we have a short off season, the league will start in some shape or form in late January or early February, you won't feel it coming, and training will I presume continue towards that date, changing management would be no benefit now in fact I think it would be a detrimental move. We can either wallow in self pity or continue working and the importance of our league campaign in 2021 now takes on even more importance, promotion is a must and is achievable, Division 2 is a dog of a division as always but look there are no world beaters in there either and we must pick ourselves up for that challenge, Dublin are just different gravy right now and I think the other 5 teams left in the race will be reassessing their opinions after tonight, Donegal included, yes our own performance level was a long way off what we wanted but Dublin were utterly outstanding tonight and are a unique and possibly a one off team, we must bear that in mind. Lastly let us not kick our own, these players have sacrificed a lot to play for the county, through normal and abnormal times, I don't doubt their work rate, effort or desire for one minute nor do I doubt it of management either, they will collectively be physically and mentally drained tonight and they do not need us to inflict more pain upon them via a keyboard, that is not the right thing to do, they need support and encouragement to keep working, keep training and keep believing that they will see reward of some sort for their efforts, it's very hard to have any optimism tonight I know but there is a squad there that I still believe can bring us to a more competitive level with Dublin, we as supporters must encourage that also."
Sorry for your troubles lads... you're not the first and sadly far from the last.

Just commenting on the reassessment thing. Mayo did re-assess, but it was after the semi-final last year which is why so many new faces have been brought through - Horan could see that the older lads couldn't stay with the Dubs in the second half. The Dublin of 2020 is a completely different animal when compared to the teams that relied on the likes of Flynn and Connolly. No individualism, no spectacular points from crazy macho low percentage vanity shots, just give it to the man inside 35m with the best chance of scoring to pop it over. No real physical monsters on the team, just players with the best engines and pace who cover the ground so well that it's like 15 v 18. Even reduced to 14 they were able to wear Kerry down last year. To stand up to them you need the same... forget your gifted and bring in your natural athletes, the lads with go-all-day engines and pace. Coach them to better graft, to tackle, to pass and to be able to kick a ball over reliably from 35m max. If you can find/train a free-taker and a goalkeeper who can get the ball away quickly and accurately (easier said than done!), then, assuming they don't find another way of changing the way the game is played, you'll at least be meeting them on equal terms.

Be seeing ye in Div 2!

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 22/11/2020 13:25:43    2312685

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Replying To Borderroyal:  "Yes you have valid point.but my point was how could a whole team not be putting in tackles.never seen us as least agressive in our approach.we have been struggling with first half problems since andy came in.goalie issues.5 years now and suddenly its goin to change.dont think so."
You're right, that's his job to motivate the players to play at a competitive intensity. It's also his job to come up with a strategy for the kickouts and no disrespect to Marcus, but when the keeper only has a short option, that leaves you very limited. The manager has had years to sort all this out and I would agree, no sign of a change anytime soon.

round_ball_99 (Meath) - Posts: 19 - 22/11/2020 13:52:59    2312703

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Replying To seadog54:  "Tonigh has shown that Meath have not improved one jot in the last four years, nothing has been done to address all of the issues you have listed. This is just basic stuff, free taker, kickouts, midfield/half-forwards that can field a ball a target man inside who can win his own ball. Felt sorry for this young team sent out as usual with no real game plan and certainly no plan B. Foolishly thought some of the issues would be addressed at first water break, however, management have shown time and time again they cannot come up with any plan in real time. Sick of hearing about clever coach and driven manager, where is there any evidence that Meath have improved over their term in charge? They tell all who will listen what a talented group they work with, yet the fail time and time again to get best out of them. We got promoted from a very poor Division 2 and management have been living off that since. The alarm bells were ringing loudly after Kildare game, but most choose to ignore. Management have had ample time to sort out the various and recurring flaws but have failed spectacularly, time for new voices and ideas in dressingroom."
Yes Have to agree very poor management responses to long time weaknesses. Our younger players need help and encouragement through good management and particularily confidence building coaching. Clearly lacking . I think i would try to avoid changing management if possible on one condition. If management readily accept that they need help with the job in certain areas then then give it to them. Jim Gavin did not do it on his own for Dublin , he got help. If help is not accepted then bye bye. We cannot continue as we are ,and hope for better outcome. I fear if things stay as they are ,then a lot more lads might take the opportunity to go travelling.
Maybe somebody at the right level may bite the bullet by taking stock of just where we are at. We know the answer there . Management issues being left unattended should be top of the agenda.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 22/11/2020 14:10:45    2312719

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Can anyone answer the below?

Best goalkeeper in Meath: Jimmy Corcoran, currently playing with Drumbaragh and 3rd choice at Dundalk after being released from Preston NE. Not on panel. Has he been asked?

Best fielder: Cian McBride. Why wasn't he playing? He had a small injury but was he left out altogether then?

Best free takers in Meath: Aaron Lynch, Daithi McGowan, Barry Dardis. None on panel. Anyone know why?

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/11/2020 14:14:42    2312725

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Just glancing over the posts this morning and the majority of them are far more embarressing then last nights performance. I wonder do some of yee actually follow or even understand Gaelic football. I would summarise our current standing as a terribly dissapointing performance last night, bet by a superb team, but we are managed by a very driven guy that has clearly made massive strides and will continue to do so if let. Getting rid of Andy would set the whole thing back years, maybe if he was brought in when he first applied we'd be 3 years further on and in a better place. Of course he has made mistakes, like they all do bar Dublin management it would seem, but I shudder to think of who the alternative would be..... no doubt all the meath club journeyman will be suggested. All this, he's to blame, get rid of him, we need change is clueless mob rule talk...... we need to continue what we are doing, bringing through young talent, working hard, trying to develop them, keep our manager and his set up, sort out keeper situation and aim to bounce back to div 1 at the first attempt."
Yeah and very few of them were posting prior to game. We have been infiltrated more than the ra in the 90s.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/11/2020 14:31:51    2312741

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "Just glancing over the posts this morning and the majority of them are far more embarressing then last nights performance. I wonder do some of yee actually follow or even understand Gaelic football. I would summarise our current standing as a terribly dissapointing performance last night, bet by a superb team, but we are managed by a very driven guy that has clearly made massive strides and will continue to do so if let. Getting rid of Andy would set the whole thing back years, maybe if he was brought in when he first applied we'd be 3 years further on and in a better place. Of course he has made mistakes, like they all do bar Dublin management it would seem, but I shudder to think of who the alternative would be..... no doubt all the meath club journeyman will be suggested. All this, he's to blame, get rid of him, we need change is clueless mob rule talk...... we need to continue what we are doing, bringing through young talent, working hard, trying to develop them, keep our manager and his set up, sort out keeper situation and aim to bounce back to div 1 at the first attempt."
How long do we give him to sort out the goalkeeping situation, another 4 years? If anything, it's gotten worse under his management. There is no question he is driven and I admire the man but no kickout strategy and no free takers is unforgivable. I wouldn't put out an u14 team like that.

4 years? That must equate to about 800 training sessions and still no kickout strategy (if you can't kick long or if even medium kicks are floated, you've no strategy) and no place kicker - 4/5 lads had a go against Wicklow, each as bad as eachother. Pathetic. Don't tell me they came with belief to beat Dublin with no free taker and Brennan in goals... players aren't stupid. No wonder folded after 10 minutes. Players who believe in what they are doing don't do that.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/11/2020 14:39:11    2312745

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Can anyone answer the below?

Best goalkeeper in Meath: Jimmy Corcoran, currently playing with Drumbaragh and 3rd choice at Dundalk after being released from Preston NE. Not on panel. Has he been asked?

Best fielder: Cian McBride. Why wasn't he playing? He had a small injury but was he left out altogether then?

Best free takers in Meath: Aaron Lynch, Daithi McGowan, Barry Dardis. None on panel. Anyone know why?"
Jimmy Corcoran was not only asked when he came home but was asked him would he come home when struggling in England. Cian McBride didn't have a small injury. It was a small fracture but that doesn't make it a small injury . Dardis and McGowan definitely were on the panel and in reference to this two lads you are overrating their free taking ability. Walsh is as good as those at club level I would say. Those lads have more range than O'Reilly, Walsh and Morris. But their accuracy rates at club level wouldn't be nothing to write home about

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1527 - 22/11/2020 16:05:47    2312860

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "Jimmy Corcoran was not only asked when he came home but was asked him would he come home when struggling in England. Cian McBride didn't have a small injury. It was a small fracture but that doesn't make it a small injury . Dardis and McGowan definitely were on the panel and in reference to this two lads you are overrating their free taking ability. Walsh is as good as those at club level I would say. Those lads have more range than O'Reilly, Walsh and Morris. But their accuracy rates at club level wouldn't be nothing to write home about"
Fair play to you Leitrim Royal you have the answers. Cluxton doing his stuff for 14 years now... and we haven't taken a few young GK and trained them yet. Somehow. Inexplicably. And now in 2020 we've a 37 year old in goals.

Likes of Corcoran, jaysus job should be found for him and have him trained up, he's a class keeper. Gary Rodgers is old but he's a pro keeper who has played at highest level, would be play a couple of seasons? He's out of contract next month.

Something has to be done lads, and fast re GK situation.

On the free takers, has to be someone who kicks off the ground. Only option. Only the truly exceptional can kick out of hands consistently well. That's why I say McGowan. Finneagan at Senchalstown is prob best in Meath off the ground, off both feet. I don't care if he stands there for rest of game scratching his hoop, we need an 80% free taker.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/11/2020 17:02:59    2312906

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Am I right in saying Meath have being beating Cavan all year in challenge matches?

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1352 - 22/11/2020 17:44:58    2312977

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Fair play to you Leitrim Royal you have the answers. Cluxton doing his stuff for 14 years now... and we haven't taken a few young GK and trained them yet. Somehow. Inexplicably. And now in 2020 we've a 37 year old in goals.

Likes of Corcoran, jaysus job should be found for him and have him trained up, he's a class keeper. Gary Rodgers is old but he's a pro keeper who has played at highest level, would be play a couple of seasons? He's out of contract next month.

Something has to be done lads, and fast re GK situation.

On the free takers, has to be someone who kicks off the ground. Only option. Only the truly exceptional can kick out of hands consistently well. That's why I say McGowan. Finneagan at Senchalstown is prob best in Meath off the ground, off both feet. I don't care if he stands there for rest of game scratching his hoop, we need an 80% free taker."
Is this cathal finnegan your talking about ?? Hes ok but brian clarke and brian sheridan take alot of them aswell for seneschalstown ! Hes not the answer at all

grahamc9897 (Meath) - Posts: 1176 - 22/11/2020 18:20:33    2313080

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