Meath Forum

Meath Hurlers 2020

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Replying To toon:  "He couldn't get a very strong Na Fianna team out of Intermediate so I think he would be a step back from current set up."
Really poor post here. This man has trained kildalkey to four County titles building a new team last year. Trained Keady to two Armagh championships again working with different teams and also bringing Keady to an all Ireland intermediate semi final. He also trained dcu to a Ryan cup win where he was held in high esteem by the great Sean og o halpain. He trained ballivor to a leinster junior football win and also his own club in tipperary to a Co intermediate hurling win. He was very well got in na Fianna and I know he was thrilled with their intermediate win. No bull a spade is a spade. And above all when the game is over its over. Obviously not your man but credit where its due.

Meath-hurling (Meath) - Posts: 2 - 24/11/2020 22:30:27    2315038

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Replying To Meath-hurling:  "Really poor post here. This man has trained kildalkey to four County titles building a new team last year. Trained Keady to two Armagh championships again working with different teams and also bringing Keady to an all Ireland intermediate semi final. He also trained dcu to a Ryan cup win where he was held in high esteem by the great Sean og o halpain. He trained ballivor to a leinster junior football win and also his own club in tipperary to a Co intermediate hurling win. He was very well got in na Fianna and I know he was thrilled with their intermediate win. No bull a spade is a spade. And above all when the game is over its over. Obviously not your man but credit where its due."
I agree he has got good credentials but i honestly think if meath truly want to push onto the next level we need a bit of a household name with proven credentials on a county level to take a punt on us(very hard to do but look at what louth just did).Would Eddie brennan give it a thought?

We keep going for lads from around the club scene in meath; chivers, Fitz, Weir etc.. Can they really bring in a high class team and coach these lads to the next level, i dont think they can and i have the utmost respect for what these guys have done for meath hurling. I think its gone to the point where we need that extra bit of wisdom to push us on further.

But a lot of this is in the hands of the C.Board as its them ultimately who can make the changes, but the sticking point is really do the Footy element in the county really want the Hurling to become a monster in their own backyard?(burn the hurls and that)

Peter Durnin did some great work at underage and those lads are just about ready to go senior for their clubs but they have to be coached further as do the lads currently playing senior. There are good systems in place underage but it has to be continued. There will be years where the talent just isnt there, but we have to keep the coaching at underage to a high stnadard.

The change in the format to the SHC i think has done wonders for the club teams as it has forced some of the clubs to pull the finger out with the dead rubber games seriously limited to the leagues. There are 4-5 clubs now who on their day play some lovely hurling to high standards. So that can only be good for the county team and will bear fruit. Obviously this year was a bit of a bent cog in the engine but the format is definitely better than what it was in terms of development.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 642 - 25/11/2020 12:30:41    2315158

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "I agree he has got good credentials but i honestly think if meath truly want to push onto the next level we need a bit of a household name with proven credentials on a county level to take a punt on us(very hard to do but look at what louth just did).Would Eddie brennan give it a thought?

We keep going for lads from around the club scene in meath; chivers, Fitz, Weir etc.. Can they really bring in a high class team and coach these lads to the next level, i dont think they can and i have the utmost respect for what these guys have done for meath hurling. I think its gone to the point where we need that extra bit of wisdom to push us on further.

But a lot of this is in the hands of the C.Board as its them ultimately who can make the changes, but the sticking point is really do the Footy element in the county really want the Hurling to become a monster in their own backyard?(burn the hurls and that)

Peter Durnin did some great work at underage and those lads are just about ready to go senior for their clubs but they have to be coached further as do the lads currently playing senior. There are good systems in place underage but it has to be continued. There will be years where the talent just isnt there, but we have to keep the coaching at underage to a high stnadard.

The change in the format to the SHC i think has done wonders for the club teams as it has forced some of the clubs to pull the finger out with the dead rubber games seriously limited to the leagues. There are 4-5 clubs now who on their day play some lovely hurling to high standards. So that can only be good for the county team and will bear fruit. Obviously this year was a bit of a bent cog in the engine but the format is definitely better than what it was in terms of development."
Household names can be very hit and miss as well, Nick Fitzgerald had Commerford and Kavanagh from Kilkenny and they did not add much to the team.
One thing that is certain with Pat O'Halloran is that shirkers or lads who would not put it all in would be found out very early in his tenure. To me he is a very viable option.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 25/11/2020 14:20:58    2315233

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "I agree he has got good credentials but i honestly think if meath truly want to push onto the next level we need a bit of a household name with proven credentials on a county level to take a punt on us(very hard to do but look at what louth just did).Would Eddie brennan give it a thought?

We keep going for lads from around the club scene in meath; chivers, Fitz, Weir etc.. Can they really bring in a high class team and coach these lads to the next level, i dont think they can and i have the utmost respect for what these guys have done for meath hurling. I think its gone to the point where we need that extra bit of wisdom to push us on further.

But a lot of this is in the hands of the C.Board as its them ultimately who can make the changes, but the sticking point is really do the Footy element in the county really want the Hurling to become a monster in their own backyard?(burn the hurls and that)

Peter Durnin did some great work at underage and those lads are just about ready to go senior for their clubs but they have to be coached further as do the lads currently playing senior. There are good systems in place underage but it has to be continued. There will be years where the talent just isnt there, but we have to keep the coaching at underage to a high stnadard.

The change in the format to the SHC i think has done wonders for the club teams as it has forced some of the clubs to pull the finger out with the dead rubber games seriously limited to the leagues. There are 4-5 clubs now who on their day play some lovely hurling to high standards. So that can only be good for the county team and will bear fruit. Obviously this year was a bit of a bent cog in the engine but the format is definitely better than what it was in terms of development."
I was thinking the same ref Eddie Brennan.

Look at Louth - they have the ambition to go for Mickey Harte even though they probably dont have the players to realistically win a Leinster at this stage, I am sure that Mickey will have huge influence on lots around Louth GAA in the coming years.

Up to last weekend I would have always said Meath was a football county and I would have accepted that. Now, after the hammering the footballers got two years in a row and unable to beat division 1 teams I think we need to look to ourselves to being a 50/50 Football and Hurling county. So money, support etc should be just as much for the hurlers as the footballers.

And where better to start than the appointment of Eddie Brennan to the hurlers and promise him the same level of financial support as the footballers. And get him or someone similar to work with the underage teams and develop players. There is great talent in the county - we just need to harness it. Look at Tipperary - a hurling county that now wins the Munster Football Championship - it can be done.

stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 25/11/2020 14:33:11    2315240

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Replying To MillerX:  "Household names can be very hit and miss as well, Nick Fitzgerald had Commerford and Kavanagh from Kilkenny and they did not add much to the team.
One thing that is certain with Pat O'Halloran is that shirkers or lads who would not put it all in would be found out very early in his tenure. To me he is a very viable option."
Yea totally agree on the pair of killkenny lads but they were trying to get square pegs in round holes from what i was told by few of the lads. But i wouldnt let that deter from looking outside too.

Agree Pat wouldnt have time fore anyone not pulling their weight but sometimes you have to have a bit of flex too to get the best out of a lad. Listen if the next man in was pat it would be a step in the right direction but only just in my opinion. I think to really drive us on we need a next level manager.

2020 hasnt helped and who knows how we would have done this year had Nick managed to get a full proper winter/spring training into the lads as a collective group. but as castlebravo has said we are no closer or further away from being where we want to be and thats leinster proper

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 642 - 25/11/2020 14:47:50    2315247

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I think the team is far to good for christy ring , this is level they need to be at and just look at the results you can see belong here. kildare and down are in it next year so should pick up wins again those.
We have improved over the last few years but now stalled.
We were very good again carlow + westmeath , but thats mayby as good as we can get with current setup?

The county board want to spend as little as possible on management,
There is a shortage of proper hurling coach in the county , if any available , and certainly none to take meath to the next level , some great hurling men yes , but not proper coach and high level tactics. The game has moved on alot in last 5 years. Look at how hard clubs in county find it getting decent managers and why some look outside for more modern younger guys.

Eddie brennan is prime example of what we need , but look at reasons why he left laois , they would be same reasons why they would not even take over meath to start with , plus the football issues with clubs on top of that.

hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 425 - 25/11/2020 15:56:32    2315283

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Replying To hurlit:  "I think the team is far to good for christy ring , this is level they need to be at and just look at the results you can see belong here. kildare and down are in it next year so should pick up wins again those.
We have improved over the last few years but now stalled.
We were very good again carlow + westmeath , but thats mayby as good as we can get with current setup?

The county board want to spend as little as possible on management,
There is a shortage of proper hurling coach in the county , if any available , and certainly none to take meath to the next level , some great hurling men yes , but not proper coach and high level tactics. The game has moved on alot in last 5 years. Look at how hard clubs in county find it getting decent managers and why some look outside for more modern younger guys.

Eddie brennan is prime example of what we need , but look at reasons why he left laois , they would be same reasons why they would not even take over meath to start with , plus the football issues with clubs on top of that."
I would indeed love if Eddie Brennan was appointed, but I did hear the 'off the record' part of the interview with Colm Parkinson. If he wasn't happy with aspects of the Laois commitment to hurling there is virtually no chance of him being the slightest bit interested in coming here unless there is a complete change of emphasis from the county committee. But at least a high level appointment is talked about here. This will probably cause convulsions in some quarters of officialdom especially when one thinks back to Banty's appointment and the savings generated by stopping players swapping jerseys were factored into the costs involved. But maybe matters have improved.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 25/11/2020 18:46:07    2315365

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The meath county board would not want eddie brennan to begin with as he would cost to much to do things how he would like , thats without the politics in the county been brought into it.
With the money the football setup costs they cant afford that type of appointment in hurling and im not sure the desire is there for the hurlers to push on.

For example Imagine telling him you play two rounds of football champ in aprill and all your hurlers will be playing that , so you cant prepare but you will get them back a week before 1st round of joe mcdonagh , hopefully not injured.

Also the minor and u21 teams need to be better prepared and more time put into them , but this is very hard with club fixtures , very hard in a dual county.

hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 425 - 25/11/2020 19:18:19    2315378

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Replying To hurlit:  "The meath county board would not want eddie brennan to begin with as he would cost to much to do things how he would like , thats without the politics in the county been brought into it.
With the money the football setup costs they cant afford that type of appointment in hurling and im not sure the desire is there for the hurlers to push on.

For example Imagine telling him you play two rounds of football champ in aprill and all your hurlers will be playing that , so you cant prepare but you will get them back a week before 1st round of joe mcdonagh , hopefully not injured.

Also the minor and u21 teams need to be better prepared and more time put into them , but this is very hard with club fixtures , very hard in a dual county."
So what you are essentially saying is that they don't want a replay of the Michael Duignan period. For one year Killian Farrell managed Senior and U-21s but it didn't really work out due to complications with club fixtures between the early finish of the Christy Ring and the U-21 starting much later in the year.
Going back to the Senior team management it does appear strange that our peer group of counties have no problem getting or financing prominent outside managers. They are Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Down and Antrim. Seems strange. Some don't have a dual player problem like we do but some certainly do like Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow and some in Kerry. Antrim I believe are hardly affected in the Glens but are to an extent in Belfast, Down would be much the same with non-Ards players belonging to dual clubs. But dual players are an issue in many of the top counties as well, kills anybody who listened to the after match comments following the televised Wexford SHC games would have heard most of the players talking about the upcoming football championship.
Mind you with the way football is gone the county committee have a decision to make, either spend an absolute fortune on it or let it find its own way on an equal footing with hurling.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 26/11/2020 16:29:57    2315669

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Replying To MillerX:  "So what you are essentially saying is that they don't want a replay of the Michael Duignan period. For one year Killian Farrell managed Senior and U-21s but it didn't really work out due to complications with club fixtures between the early finish of the Christy Ring and the U-21 starting much later in the year.
Going back to the Senior team management it does appear strange that our peer group of counties have no problem getting or financing prominent outside managers. They are Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow, Kerry, Down and Antrim. Seems strange. Some don't have a dual player problem like we do but some certainly do like Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow and some in Kerry. Antrim I believe are hardly affected in the Glens but are to an extent in Belfast, Down would be much the same with non-Ards players belonging to dual clubs. But dual players are an issue in many of the top counties as well, kills anybody who listened to the after match comments following the televised Wexford SHC games would have heard most of the players talking about the upcoming football championship.
Mind you with the way football is gone the county committee have a decision to make, either spend an absolute fortune on it or let it find its own way on an equal footing with hurling."
issue ive always felt between Hurling board & football Board is exactly the opposite ends of the spectrum….the football board have an over inflated view of where we should sit in the world of gaelic football and that colours their actions....and the hurling board lack ambition.....until there is only one view of what we want our Sporting Teams to be & represent, it will always be that . Should be one sponsorship deal ….one way of treating our players that represent our county. Went tp an u14 camogie game a few years back v Dublin...and was blown away that the togging out of Dublin girls was a direct replica of what way their senior Mens football team togged out that weekend in croke park...zero difference...our girls could have been representing Leitrim ….and don't tell me that we couldn't get a few pound together among even parents if we have to ask them, ...we need to build our ambition & re build our identity

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 26/11/2020 17:05:06    2315685

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Replying To stillaroyal:  "I was thinking the same ref Eddie Brennan.

Look at Louth - they have the ambition to go for Mickey Harte even though they probably dont have the players to realistically win a Leinster at this stage, I am sure that Mickey will have huge influence on lots around Louth GAA in the coming years.

Up to last weekend I would have always said Meath was a football county and I would have accepted that. Now, after the hammering the footballers got two years in a row and unable to beat division 1 teams I think we need to look to ourselves to being a 50/50 Football and Hurling county. So money, support etc should be just as much for the hurlers as the footballers.

And where better to start than the appointment of Eddie Brennan to the hurlers and promise him the same level of financial support as the footballers. And get him or someone similar to work with the underage teams and develop players. There is great talent in the county - we just need to harness it. Look at Tipperary - a hurling county that now wins the Munster Football Championship - it can be done."
Even as a Meath hurling person I can't say its 50/50. Meath footballers competed in most of their division 1 league games this year. Imagine the Meath hurlers playing the top hurling teams: Limerick, Galway, Tipp, Kilkenny, Clare, Waterford, Cork, Wexford, Dublin. It would not end well, especially with a championship at stake.

fjones (Dublin) - Posts: 12 - 27/11/2020 09:34:57    2315845

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Replying To fjones:  "Even as a Meath hurling person I can't say its 50/50. Meath footballers competed in most of their division 1 league games this year. Imagine the Meath hurlers playing the top hurling teams: Limerick, Galway, Tipp, Kilkenny, Clare, Waterford, Cork, Wexford, Dublin. It would not end well, especially with a championship at stake."
Agree I'm hurling man, but our hurlers are mile of footballers in terms of strength and conditioning.
I don't think there is programme in place for underage meath hurling teams witch is a shame and major problem.
Only lads I can see that stand out with hurlers are lads that have being involved with meath football at some level Sean Gerty, Odonnacha, healy, mcgowans and burke all above the rest

Slimbob (Meath) - Posts: 26 - 27/11/2020 11:32:41    2315890

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So taking a drumming at home again on Sunday. Hard to know how much the lads wanted it considering it was a dead rubber but have to say im disappointed with the year and i honestly think things are slipping in the wrong direction. Management need a big kick up the rear before next year.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 642 - 30/11/2020 11:23:59    2316830

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I don't think this should turn into a hurlers v footballers debate. Both are awful.

I agree that the club hurling format of two groups of 6 has been great for the game in the county. All club championship games are competitive. However I do think the standard in the county has dropped in the past few seasons. 2014-2017 Kiltale were untouchable, I think it's more a case of them taking the foot off the pedal than other clubs stepping up. 2021 championship will be the most open in years with 5/6 clubs in with a shout.

Eddie Brennan would be a revelation in Meath. But if he thinks the Laois county board lack ambition he'd be in for a rude awakening coming up here. I've said it for years that county boards (not just Meath) aren't fit for purpose. There should be one or to committees for fixtures and coaching. The rest should be privately run.
County boards are essentially businesses with millions of euros of turnover a year. A private company on a 3 year contract should be able to pay for itself and if good enough generate enough revenue to pay for the likes of an eddie brennan, mickey harte etc.

County board convention is coming up soon. How many former county players or coaches are up for positions? Very few I'd guess.

begining (UK) - Posts: 313 - 01/12/2020 10:30:17    2317246

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I wouldn't say we've gone backwards, but we exist on an awkward knife edge at the moment-too good for the CR but not up to J McD standard. I know people will say "only lost by a point to Carlow" but Carlow came 2nd last and we were the only team they beat all year across the Walsh Cup, League, and J McD.

We'll have another go next year but I expect more of the same really; 4th in the league and maybe 4th in the J McD since Kildare and Down are coming up and we might get a win or 2.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1668 - 01/12/2020 14:23:50    2317321

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I wouldn't say we've gone backwards, but we exist on an awkward knife edge at the moment-too good for the CR but not up to J McD standard. I know people will say "only lost by a point to Carlow" but Carlow came 2nd last and we were the only team they beat all year across the Walsh Cup, League, and J McD.

We'll have another go next year but I expect more of the same really; 4th in the league and maybe 4th in the J McD since Kildare and Down are coming up and we might get a win or 2."
really conflicted in my emotions on how to assess the year, and then the particular year that's in it, I can easily slide into the whole , ah sure , it was a mess with covid anyway....but final nail for my emotional roller coaster was my delight & equal regret for jack Fagan & Waterford on Saturday.....jazuz...at some point we have to roll up our sleeves and start to show ambition our we will always be second best

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 01/12/2020 16:54:44    2317377

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "really conflicted in my emotions on how to assess the year, and then the particular year that's in it, I can easily slide into the whole , ah sure , it was a mess with covid anyway....but final nail for my emotional roller coaster was my delight & equal regret for jack Fagan & Waterford on Saturday.....jazuz...at some point we have to roll up our sleeves and start to show ambition our we will always be second best"
i agree, i think its just super that a lad from Meath has gone on and proven himself that he can play at the top level and it should be taken into account by everyone in meath that there is good hurling in the county with v good hurlers in all clubs who are in just in need of a bit of support from county board and the general puplic. When was the last team a player from a weaker county broke into a top county team to play in an All Ireland, its extremely Rare!
There was always potential of a strong hurling base and tradition in Meath, in its own right just as good as Offaly, Laois and others, plenty of Clubs (more than Offaly, Westmeath, Carlow etc) but they were unfortunate that the footballers were going through a golden era. Maybe the whole Hurling setup in the county will grow from this what Jack Fagan has done and push forward to greater things.

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 762 - 02/12/2020 22:44:50    2317845

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Replying To preddan:  "i agree, i think its just super that a lad from Meath has gone on and proven himself that he can play at the top level and it should be taken into account by everyone in meath that there is good hurling in the county with v good hurlers in all clubs who are in just in need of a bit of support from county board and the general puplic. When was the last team a player from a weaker county broke into a top county team to play in an All Ireland, its extremely Rare!
There was always potential of a strong hurling base and tradition in Meath, in its own right just as good as Offaly, Laois and others, plenty of Clubs (more than Offaly, Westmeath, Carlow etc) but they were unfortunate that the footballers were going through a golden era. Maybe the whole Hurling setup in the county will grow from this what Jack Fagan has done and push forward to greater things."
I think its great for the lad himself and his family and hopefully he will continue to do well with Waterford and continue to progress.

However, I am not sure if I agree that its good for Meath hurling - in fact would say that it is worse for Meath hurling as it demonstrates that we cant hold on to our best players and this might encourage others who will no doubt be approached if they start to do well in college hurling. Meath hurling needs as many good players like Jack coming through & developing. Also, it must be a bit demotivating to club mentors when they are then struggling with their adult teams after losing their best players.

We have lost football players to Aussie Football also and, as mentioned here, we haven't heard that happening as much in Dublin.

Even in Meath's glory days we did not get the equivalent players from other counties. Selfishly we want to be a RECEIVER of these players and not lose them

stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 03/12/2020 11:57:50    2317911

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Replying To stillaroyal:  "I think its great for the lad himself and his family and hopefully he will continue to do well with Waterford and continue to progress.

However, I am not sure if I agree that its good for Meath hurling - in fact would say that it is worse for Meath hurling as it demonstrates that we cant hold on to our best players and this might encourage others who will no doubt be approached if they start to do well in college hurling. Meath hurling needs as many good players like Jack coming through & developing. Also, it must be a bit demotivating to club mentors when they are then struggling with their adult teams after losing their best players.

We have lost football players to Aussie Football also and, as mentioned here, we haven't heard that happening as much in Dublin.

Even in Meath's glory days we did not get the equivalent players from other counties. Selfishly we want to be a RECEIVER of these players and not lose them"
As you say, fair play to him personally, but the idea this is encouraging for Meath is untrue. If anything it's a bit demoralising.

What's the takeaway message for other young hurlers? If you show some promise you can leave the Meath system at 19 and spend several years immersed among far far better hurlers than we have in Meath, and then can reach the top level with a different county?

Fagan has spent the last 5 years playing club hurling with and against some of the best hurlers in Ireland (one of his clubmates is Kevin Moran FFS). We can't replicate that in Meath with all the funding in the world, until we build the player base hugely. Look at how long it took Dublin to climb the ranks in hurling, and they started at a higher level than us, with a far bigger number of hurling clubs and population. Even if Meath started to invest in hurling today, it'd take decades to catch up.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1668 - 03/12/2020 13:51:08    2317940

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "As you say, fair play to him personally, but the idea this is encouraging for Meath is untrue. If anything it's a bit demoralising.

What's the takeaway message for other young hurlers? If you show some promise you can leave the Meath system at 19 and spend several years immersed among far far better hurlers than we have in Meath, and then can reach the top level with a different county?

Fagan has spent the last 5 years playing club hurling with and against some of the best hurlers in Ireland (one of his clubmates is Kevin Moran FFS). We can't replicate that in Meath with all the funding in the world, until we build the player base hugely. Look at how long it took Dublin to climb the ranks in hurling, and they started at a higher level than us, with a far bigger number of hurling clubs and population. Even if Meath started to invest in hurling today, it'd take decades to catch up."
jez CB....I hear your pain & share it, but lets use it as a start of something good. One of our own, with (as you say) recent exposure to top notch competition & environment has reached the pinnacle, or damn close to it ……
so another way of looking at it is to see it as up to 5 years again, what Jack was experiencing in both club & county gave him a really solid foundation to reach the top.... so, we are not a finishing factory....but how do we become one?
I do agree with you , and experienced a lot of mixed emotions , but overall im left with a feeling of positivity around the whole thing. ….PS...also dont disagree with your overall point on dublin, but I do disagree with the way Dublin have put the athletic emphasis over the hurling skill emphasis...I personally think Dublin have called the balance in their development plan a bit wrong

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 03/12/2020 14:04:14    2317944

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