Cavan Forum

Club Football 2023

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Yes, the next Wednesday both winners of the first games will play off to decide who get's 7th and 8th"
Junior Football Championship Playoff Draw
Placings
Arva (1)
Knockbride (2)
Play OFF
This Wednesday Kildallan V Swanlinbar (6) Killeshandra V Drung (7). Next Wednesday Losers play for 8

This is the what the County Board sent to the Clubs on Sunday evening, Just one game next week between the losers of this Wednesday night's games to decide 8th position.

Bigcall (Cavan) - Posts: 7 - 05/09/2023 14:50:43    2503156

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You are wrong there… the losers will play off to see who gets 8th place… winners should play off for 6th and 7th as 4 into 3 won't go… This is the problem with this type of Championship format as score difference cannot be used…. it can end up with a lot of play off matches…"
Very unfair on Drung who has the best score difference that they don't get the chance to playoff for 6th place.

Surely score difference is fairer than drawing from a hat or letting both winners play each other would be the fairest option.

Not much of a reward to play Knockbride after beating Killashandra.

My own club are the big winners as we are playing the one of the two weaker sides in Swadlinbar or Kildallan.

drumalee11 (USA) - Posts: 290 - 05/09/2023 15:11:37    2503164

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Replying To Bigcall:  "Junior Football Championship Playoff Draw
Placings
Arva (1)
Knockbride (2)
Play OFF
This Wednesday Kildallan V Swanlinbar (6) Killeshandra V Drung (7). Next Wednesday Losers play for 8

This is the what the County Board sent to the Clubs on Sunday evening, Just one game next week between the losers of this Wednesday night's games to decide 8th position."
Yeah I read it again. I got it wrong. Someone had said to me that the 2 winners will play off for 6th and 7th, but seems not alright. Just the one game the next Wednesday for the 8th spot with the 2 losers from the first set of playoffs

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 05/09/2023 15:12:21    2503165

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "You are wrong there… the losers will play off to see who gets 8th place… winners should play off for 6th and 7th as 4 into 3 won't go… This is the problem with this type of Championship format as score difference cannot be used…. it can end up with a lot of play off matches…"
You are wrong there… the losers will play off to see who gets 8th place… winners should play off for 6th and 7th as 4 into 3 won't go… This is the problem with this type of Championship format as score difference cannot be used…. it can end up with a lot of play off matches…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1607 - 05/09/2023 13:08:29 250

Score difference can be used and has been ever since this format was introduced and is still in place in Senior and Intermediate.

This mess comes about because of a certain club complaining to the county board about clubs running up big scores against Maghera getting an big advantage. The irony off it all is that they played Maghera last year and won by less that 10 points while everyone else put 20+ on them.

A club that hasn't made the quarter finals in four years should know there place...

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 845 - 05/09/2023 15:31:16    2503171

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Replying To RHF:  "You are wrong there… the losers will play off to see who gets 8th place… winners should play off for 6th and 7th as 4 into 3 won't go… This is the problem with this type of Championship format as score difference cannot be used…. it can end up with a lot of play off matches…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1607 - 05/09/2023 13:08:29 250

Score difference can be used and has been ever since this format was introduced and is still in place in Senior and Intermediate.

This mess comes about because of a certain club complaining to the county board about clubs running up big scores against Maghera getting an big advantage. The irony off it all is that they played Maghera last year and won by less that 10 points while everyone else put 20+ on them.

A club that hasn't made the quarter finals in four years should know there place..."
I do agree with Redhills here though. A team like Maghera do skew the points difference, and getting them game 1 when they are motivated or in monsoon conditions, or game 4 after 3 beatings and lovely conditions are a very different thing. The issue is the absolute mess the county board has made of this. There are easier solutions (some bin best and worst score - or just score difference for the teams around you), or they could have tightened up this rule - they clearly did not anticipate this very likely possibility. Pure score difference when teams level may have played 4 different teams is quite silly if we break it down.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 05/09/2023 15:52:08    2503181

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I do agree with Redhills here though. A team like Maghera do skew the points difference, and getting them game 1 when they are motivated or in monsoon conditions, or game 4 after 3 beatings and lovely conditions are a very different thing. The issue is the absolute mess the county board has made of this. There are easier solutions (some bin best and worst score - or just score difference for the teams around you), or they could have tightened up this rule - they clearly did not anticipate this very likely possibility. Pure score difference when teams level may have played 4 different teams is quite silly if we break it down."
Will Intermediate and Senior teams kick up a fuss now that this rule has been brought in in junior.

Arguably there's as much, if not more of a gulf in class, between best and worst teams in senior going by this years results.

I do recall a host of playoffs being played in the first year this system was introduced in Cavan due to teams not being allowed to exit a championship on score difference.

drumalee11 (USA) - Posts: 290 - 05/09/2023 16:46:11    2503196

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remember when it was all straight knockout ?
It is supposed to be championship after all , not league. There has to be a certain element of pot-luck about it. If you want fairness then the league is a better system but the championship was supposed to be more exciting

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 05/09/2023 17:40:59    2503201

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This weeks predictions:

Junior Playoffs
Drung v Killashandra - Drung by 7
Swadlinbar v Killdallan - Swadlinbar on penalties

Senior
Kingscourt v Killygarry - Kingscourt by 3
Castlerahan v Crosserlough - Crosserlough by 22
Ramor v Gowna - Ramor by 3
Cavan Gaels v Lacken - Draw
Lavey v Ballinagh - Ballinagh by 3
Laragh v Mullahoran - Mullahoran by 3

Intermediate
Templeport v Drumgoon - Drumgoon by 3
Ballyhaise v Ballymachugh - Ballyhaise by 7
Cootehill v Killinkere - Cootehill by 7
Butlersbridge v Denn - Draw
Drumlane v Belturbet - Drumlane by 5
Cuchullains v Cornafean - Cucus by 11
Shercock v Bailieborough - Bboro by 2

drumalee11 (USA) - Posts: 290 - 06/09/2023 11:37:14    2503261

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Replying To drumalee11:  "Will Intermediate and Senior teams kick up a fuss now that this rule has been brought in in junior.

Arguably there's as much, if not more of a gulf in class, between best and worst teams in senior going by this years results.

I do recall a host of playoffs being played in the first year this system was introduced in Cavan due to teams not being allowed to exit a championship on score difference."
I don't think there is as much, or at least there's definite levels of teams. Not a certain few teams being thrashed by teams in Junior who then themselves don't do much after. The gap between mid Junior team and bad Junior teams is way more than in Senior or such

Saying all that, I'm personally not a fan of score difference in general. It's too arbitrary. it works in soccer in leagues where every team plays each other and scores are lower. Gaelic scores vary too much, and we use score difference when 2 sides may not have played the same sides, or one played in brutal weather conditions. I'd definitely think of a playoff where there are teams levels between getting into quarters or relegation in senior for instance. The team in 9th on score difference may have got a tanking by Crosserlough, when the 8th team didn't for example. Definitely playoff here. There's gap week in Senior to do the like of this

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 06/09/2023 11:53:49    2503267

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Replying To s goldrick:  "remember when it was all straight knockout ?
It is supposed to be championship after all , not league. There has to be a certain element of pot-luck about it. If you want fairness then the league is a better system but the championship was supposed to be more exciting"
100% agree here. The more we see various Championship layout at club and intercounty level, the more I'd rather a straight knockout. Just too many games with barely anything to play for. The good teams can be a beat a few times and know that's fine. They can't do so on straight knockout

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 06/09/2023 12:22:58    2503276

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It will be interesting to see how Killeshandra and Kildallon approach the Junior championship playoff for 8th place and the last quarter final spot.
In essence the prize the winner gets is a junior quarter final that only an absolute optimist would see them competing in let alone winning and the prize for the loser is a semifinal in the shield competition that they will have a chance of winning and at least be competitive in and in a competition which they ultimately will feel they can win.

offtheditch (Cavan) - Posts: 157 - 07/09/2023 13:10:36    2503419

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Replying To offtheditch:  "It will be interesting to see how Killeshandra and Kildallon approach the Junior championship playoff for 8th place and the last quarter final spot.
In essence the prize the winner gets is a junior quarter final that only an absolute optimist would see them competing in let alone winning and the prize for the loser is a semifinal in the shield competition that they will have a chance of winning and at least be competitive in and in a competition which they ultimately will feel they can win."
Thats a fair point.

Kildallan missed a golden opportunity last night by all accounts.

Getting two men sent off is unforgivable, they must have lost all discipline in a game they seemed to be in control of.

I presume they wont have the two guys for the next round which will make Killeshandra big favourites.

Would local derby factor in an Arva v Killeshandra game make it closer than logic would suggest?

drumalee11 (USA) - Posts: 290 - 07/09/2023 14:10:31    2503434

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I don't think there is as much, or at least there's definite levels of teams. Not a certain few teams being thrashed by teams in Junior who then themselves don't do much after. The gap between mid Junior team and bad Junior teams is way more than in Senior or such

Saying all that, I'm personally not a fan of score difference in general. It's too arbitrary. it works in soccer in leagues where every team plays each other and scores are lower. Gaelic scores vary too much, and we use score difference when 2 sides may not have played the same sides, or one played in brutal weather conditions. I'd definitely think of a playoff where there are teams levels between getting into quarters or relegation in senior for instance. The team in 9th on score difference may have got a tanking by Crosserlough, when the 8th team didn't for example. Definitely playoff here. There's gap week in Senior to do the like of this"
nonsense

tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 07/09/2023 17:32:08    2503459

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Both teams would get destroyed by in the quarter final so to prove a point I hope they do the right thing and draw the game 0, 0 and miss all the penalties until the ref gives up and tosses a coin.

wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1678 - 08/09/2023 07:57:11    2503482

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Replying To tom84:  "nonsense"
Wow, what an argument you've put up there. I'm thoroughly convinced...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2380 - 08/09/2023 09:41:35    2503486

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Replying To wishfulthinkin:  "Both teams would get destroyed by in the quarter final so to prove a point I hope they do the right thing and draw the game 0, 0 and miss all the penalties until the ref gives up and tosses a coin."
Championship only starts now…. Remember Dlumlane scraped in on the last day in 8th place and ended up in last year's Ulster Junior Final….!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1900 - 08/09/2023 10:11:19    2503495

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I don't think there is as much, or at least there's definite levels of teams. Not a certain few teams being thrashed by teams in Junior who then themselves don't do much after. The gap between mid Junior team and bad Junior teams is way more than in Senior or such

Saying all that, I'm personally not a fan of score difference in general. It's too arbitrary. it works in soccer in leagues where every team plays each other and scores are lower. Gaelic scores vary too much, and we use score difference when 2 sides may not have played the same sides, or one played in brutal weather conditions. I'd definitely think of a playoff where there are teams levels between getting into quarters or relegation in senior for instance. The team in 9th on score difference may have got a tanking by Crosserlough, when the 8th team didn't for example. Definitely playoff here. There's gap week in Senior to do the like of this"
I agree with Loughduff Lad here and his example with Crosserlough has merit as the team finishing 8th might not have even played them thus greatly helping their score difference…. Score difference simply cannot be used when all teams in the group don't get the chance to play each other… If it has been used in the past then it was a huge mistake and is an obvious flaw in this Championship format..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1900 - 09/09/2023 08:10:43    2503567

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The absence of M lee was a huge loss to mullahoran against laragh this year he was involved in almost all of their scores last year and decided the game a huge loss is he out of long.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 452 - 12/09/2023 14:09:22    2503987

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Championship only starts now…. Remember Dlumlane scraped in on the last day in 8th place and ended up in last year's Ulster Junior Final….!!!"
Drumlane won 3 from 4 last year and finished on 6 points with about 5 other teams, knockbride, shannon Gaels and Redhills finished on 5 with Redhills losing out on scoring differential hence playoffs this year. Drumlane good championship side who'll give Ballyhaise their fill of it this weekend, don't be surprised if they win this one.

aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 256 - 12/09/2023 19:22:25    2504047

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Predictions for this weekend:
Intermediate:
Ballyhaise vs Drumlane: Ballyhaise by 3
Shercock vs Ballymacugh: Shercock by 3
Templeport vs Kilinkere: Kilinkere by 2
Denn vs Cootehill: Draw

Junior:
Shannon Gaels vs Mountnugent: Shannon Gaels by 2
Knockbride vs Drung: Knockbride by 6
Drumalee vs Swad: Drumalee by 4
Arva vs Kildallan: Arva by 7

What do the rest of ye think?

cavan23 (Cavan) - Posts: 5 - 13/09/2023 09:26:46    2504079

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