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Replying To interested32:  "I don't think giving fines to clubs that are already struggling is a sensible solution. It's a sad day to see the 3 walkovers in the senior championship though but they must have their reasons. Parnells introducing an English born team has obviously restricted them player wise as it is difficult to field 2 teams simultaneously and KKG have had a number of departures, some of other clubs in London and haven't managed to replace them.

The bigger issue is the lack of players available to these clubs when others soak up significant numbers to ensure others don't them and ultimately leave them on the bench or even on the bank rather than see other clubs have them. Not sure how this can be policed but a cap on the amount of registered players should be considered."
Yes I don't see how fining the clubs would help. To be honest though, I don't think KKG, North London Shamrocks and Parnell's each couldn't field a team Sunday. There might be a problem with player numbers at some clubs but I don't believe that was the reason for Sunday's walkovers.

There might some info on it in the Irish World on Wednesday because as usual there is absolutely nothing about it on any London GAA platform.

LondainBhoy (UK) - Posts: 27 - 23/09/2019 21:56:33    2238651

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Replying To LondainBhoy:  "Yes I don't see how fining the clubs would help. To be honest though, I don't think KKG, North London Shamrocks and Parnell's each couldn't field a team Sunday. There might be a problem with player numbers at some clubs but I don't believe that was the reason for Sunday's walkovers.

There might some info on it in the Irish World on Wednesday because as usual there is absolutely nothing about it on any London GAA platform."
Teams tried to buy success over the last few years and when the money left disaster followed.The sponsors of the senior competitions must not be too happy either with some of the teams not fielding in senior championship but continuing to field in lesser competitions,It all looks rather strange.
Very few clubs properly bothered about underage football or structures ,or for tgat matter did the county board and now the results are evident.
Things will get a lot worse before they get better and thats a guarantee.

gohome (USA) - Posts: 20 - 23/09/2019 23:47:28    2238666

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It's baffling Shamrocks gave a walkover in the SFC yet will field for a Reserve League Final this week.

The promotion of club football and hurling here is shocking. Light years behind even the smallest counties back home. It's pointless investing so much time in promoting the London teams during their respective championships to build awareness of the GAA in London to then not follow that same effort through to when the club season hit full swing.

WestAwake88 (Galway) - Posts: 52 - 24/09/2019 09:36:56    2238697

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Lots of assumptions being made.

The fact NLS can field for a reserve game this weekend but not senior last weekend is inexcusable. They obviously had enough players to fulfil last weekend's fixture but chose not to in the hope of winning a lesser competition.

Parnells have historically invested heavily in players unsuccessfully but they have a sustainable plan with their underage system for the long term. However I'm surprised also they couldn't field last weekend when their English born team are out so would have been eligible to play surely? Also isn't there a 2 strikes and you're out rule for teams giving walkovers, consequently Parnells will be intermediate next year as a result of not giving the English born guys a run out last weekend.

KKG have struggled all year and 3-4 players went to St Kieran's which pretty much crippled the club so would assume they couldn't field. Unless they just wanted to avoid the inevitable big defeat.

Traditionally big clubs like Parnells, KKG & Moindearg failing to field is a sad time for London GAA and not sure it's reversible for any club without an underage system.

interested32 (Galway) - Posts: 69 - 24/09/2019 10:55:50    2238711

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Gaelic games in London are not in good shape, on the decline if you will. Has it got anything to do with Gottsche deciding to up sticks back to Galway? - get out while the going is seemingly good, the writing is on the wall!
Not alone have teams not been fielding, the issue of referees not being appointed/showing up to games is still rife. What type of world do we live in that lads train 2 or 3 nights a week for half the year only to have a referee not show up to a chamionship game. It's happened in 1 senior and 1 intermediate hurling game in the last 3 weeks, that i know of anyway.
As mentioned on here already, the website is an absolute joke.

custopper (Cork) - Posts: 26 - 24/09/2019 14:08:34    2238786

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Replying To custopper:  "Gaelic games in London are not in good shape, on the decline if you will. Has it got anything to do with Gottsche deciding to up sticks back to Galway? - get out while the going is seemingly good, the writing is on the wall!
Not alone have teams not been fielding, the issue of referees not being appointed/showing up to games is still rife. What type of world do we live in that lads train 2 or 3 nights a week for half the year only to have a referee not show up to a chamionship game. It's happened in 1 senior and 1 intermediate hurling game in the last 3 weeks, that i know of anyway.
As mentioned on here already, the website is an absolute joke."
Yes I forgot to mention the referee situation in my rant above, good point. More people need to be encouraged to step forward to help with refereeing and get trained up.

The club scene is in a bad state and it's sad because the interest and passion are there. What excuse can a big club have now for not having an underage system in place? The interest is there as evidenced by the huge numbers of kids that turn out for underage sides at tournaments like the All Britain. In hurling, neither Gabriels nor Emmets do any youth hurling, yet both can manage to field B sides? Actually I'm not sure if Emmets have a B side, let me check the county website....

I hope it's just a blip and not a sign of long term decline but as someone else mentioned, the sponsors of the championships can't be happy with how the county promote them. If there isn't a PRO, there needs to be one. If there is one, he/she needs to seriously ask themselves if they are up to it or at least ask for some help. Yes it's bad the clubs gave walkovers but you have to wonder if they would have done it if they county at least appeared to be promoting their own championships.

LondainBhoy (UK) - Posts: 27 - 24/09/2019 16:09:00    2238812

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I wouldn't want to have a pop at any of the clubs in question without knowing all the facts, but just a very sad day for London football when only 25% of the senior football championship games are played, there has to be some questions asked by the county board?

Are Parnells now relegated as they gave two walkovers? Their junior side did ok this year, if they add in some experienced seniors would have a strong intermediate side next year?

macattack (UK) - Posts: 584 - 24/09/2019 16:52:18    2238824

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Yeah things not looking good for some of the so called bigger clubs at the moment, I hear people saying numbers not coming over but it looks to me that the teams that are struggling are the teams in North London, would appear that people are coming over and moving to different parts of the city, we now have five teams south of the river all seem to be doing well, also McCurtains thriving out east and Eire Og seem to be doing well in the Islington/Camden area. People coming over are being attracted to different parts of London not the areas around County Kilburn any more, Clapham etc are all more attractive propositions nowadays. Maybe it is time for the GAA to look at maybe leasing a pitch of a south London council for 10 years.
In regards to underage set ups, there was an idea thrown about on here a few years ago to introduce a quota system that all senior club had to have a certain number of home grown players, but don't think it ever got discussed at county board level. Definitely something that should be looked into.
Yeah the PRO situation is not great, in the modern age we are used to get up to the muinute information on twitter, some clubs are excellent for their social media presence but sadly the county board have yet to catch up with the whole thing. I think their should be a PRO but that under the PRO there should be a social media team, to keep Twitter, Instagram and Facebook updated whilst matched are taking place.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1910 - 24/09/2019 17:11:07    2238826

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Replying To Rosineri1:  "Yeah things not looking good for some of the so called bigger clubs at the moment, I hear people saying numbers not coming over but it looks to me that the teams that are struggling are the teams in North London, would appear that people are coming over and moving to different parts of the city, we now have five teams south of the river all seem to be doing well, also McCurtains thriving out east and Eire Og seem to be doing well in the Islington/Camden area. People coming over are being attracted to different parts of London not the areas around County Kilburn any more, Clapham etc are all more attractive propositions nowadays. Maybe it is time for the GAA to look at maybe leasing a pitch of a south London council for 10 years.
In regards to underage set ups, there was an idea thrown about on here a few years ago to introduce a quota system that all senior club had to have a certain number of home grown players, but don't think it ever got discussed at county board level. Definitely something that should be looked into.
Yeah the PRO situation is not great, in the modern age we are used to get up to the muinute information on twitter, some clubs are excellent for their social media presence but sadly the county board have yet to catch up with the whole thing. I think their should be a PRO but that under the PRO there should be a social media team, to keep Twitter, Instagram and Facebook updated whilst matched are taking place."
Sad reality is this is predictable and there isn't one sole reason what has caused this.

The numbers of Irish haven't reduced in London but the difference is many are choosing not to become involved in clubs here or are flying back to play with their clubs every weekend is one reason. You would be surprised at the number of high profile lads from back home who are working in the city and would be big names back in their Home Counties but not involved in a club here. The successful clubs (numbers wise) like Fulham, TCG, Kiernans, Towers and Thomas McCurtains, Eire Og have seen this and stopped relying on a gang of lads coming to work on a building site for the summer like some of the clubs who have had trouble recently have done. We know who those clubs are and unfortunately for them failed to see the warning signs. But it is important not to penalise those clubs who have spent years getting their house in order and volunteers doing their best to promote their clubs and communities through training, underage, ground and clubhouse development and as a result making their clubs attractive to play football for.

However there are reasons why the teams gave walkovers. For at least two of the teams, they have been associated with sums of money being paid to certain players to bridge the gap and those experiments haven't worked which cannot be great for spirit the rest who go without. One of those clubs have been caught up in a real divide between their underage and senior set up's while all three have been seen quite high profile fall out's between players and mentors at one stage or another the past two seasons. Common between all of them has been the internal apathy within each of those clubs with lads confirming from each of the 3 teams that training numbers have at times been no more than 3-4 on some nights, and when there is a session is put on, it's a bit of a shambles in the words of one player which further feeds the apathy. If a training session is a shambles these lads have plenty more to be doing in a city like London on a Tuesday and Thursday instead. Perhaps the apathy was at play the weekend especially as those clubs have managed to field most matches this season.

Agreed that the county board silence on this has been atrocious and the general lack of promotion of the club game is scandalous especially given the sponsors support to the competitions. The PR was in full flow up until Galway and since then virtually non-existent. The Secretary has moved back to Galway and has left a huge void to fill. Unfortunately, the remaining executive there just do not have the foresight to lead a progressive organisation in a modern-day city such as London. The current Chairman was previously in the position 20 odd years ago and was only voted in to the current position in response to the protest vote against the Naomh Padraig issue. With the stadium in place, it's such a let down and really needs fresh impetus to drive it forward.

opinion1986 (Cork) - Posts: 5 - 24/09/2019 18:44:44    2238852

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Replying To Rosineri1:  "Yeah things not looking good for some of the so called bigger clubs at the moment, I hear people saying numbers not coming over but it looks to me that the teams that are struggling are the teams in North London, would appear that people are coming over and moving to different parts of the city, we now have five teams south of the river all seem to be doing well, also McCurtains thriving out east and Eire Og seem to be doing well in the Islington/Camden area. People coming over are being attracted to different parts of London not the areas around County Kilburn any more, Clapham etc are all more attractive propositions nowadays. Maybe it is time for the GAA to look at maybe leasing a pitch of a south London council for 10 years.
In regards to underage set ups, there was an idea thrown about on here a few years ago to introduce a quota system that all senior club had to have a certain number of home grown players, but don't think it ever got discussed at county board level. Definitely something that should be looked into.
Yeah the PRO situation is not great, in the modern age we are used to get up to the muinute information on twitter, some clubs are excellent for their social media presence but sadly the county board have yet to catch up with the whole thing. I think their should be a PRO but that under the PRO there should be a social media team, to keep Twitter, Instagram and Facebook updated whilst matched are taking place."
Yes good point regarding people moving or staying in different areas, but clubs wherever they're based have to have a decent youth set up and not just rely on who is coming over from one year to the next. As well as people moving to different areas, nowhere near as many lads are moving here long term. Most will be living here now for a couple of years and then head home. You can't base a club on that long term.

As for the PRO, I'm not trying to have a pop at anyone (if there is one) as people give up their time and do their best. But, the website as it is was massively ambitious and it would be nearly a full time job keeping that going. It doesn't need half that stuff on there, up to date fixtures, results, tables etc. are obviously a must, but also club information, links, maybe a couple of blogs/match reports written by players/coaches or whatever. Keep it simple and use it in tandem with Facebook and Twitter. The PRO wouldn't have to do it all, just compile or upload whatever people are sending into them. Loads of people probably happy to help.

It's not all doom and gloom, loads of people at all levels are doing great work and there are some positives, but it's been bad this year alright. Hopefully now there will be a couple of cracking semi finals and a good finish to the hurling too.

LondainBhoy (UK) - Posts: 27 - 24/09/2019 19:38:16    2238868

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I think as a collective the whole issue needs to be addressed. There is a lot of "holier than though" attitudes developing by some clubs which is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Chairmen calling other teams out on social media, clubs on their high horse about fielding teams whilst not acknowledging their actions directly contributed to this whole mess (but will end up empty handed regardless).

Genuine Gaels are now needed to sort this mess, not mud slinging.

interested32 (Galway) - Posts: 69 - 25/09/2019 06:15:56    2238955

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Great point earlier about South London. Look at Wandsworth Gaels. Only their second year in existence and they are in Junior final on Sunday. Apparently they have a panel of at least 25 lads. They're picking up lads in the Clapham, Brixton, Wandsworth which is a great catchment in present day London.

custopper (Cork) - Posts: 26 - 25/09/2019 13:15:23    2239060

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well done to Dulwich yesterday, finally taking the Junior Championship, better team throughout, won't have any fears of any intermediate teams next year, Wandsworth managed to get a few scores towards the end to give the scoreboard a better look but Dulwich were comfortable. Fair play to Wandsworth second season and getting to final, a club that are building nicely and had a decent amount of support for a new club.
McCurtains pushed all the way by TCG in the intermediate, got a flying start and though TCG tried to get back into it could never get close enough to really apply pressure, did have the chance to grab a dramatic draw with the last play of the game.
Should be a decent game next week between McCurtains and Dulwich to see who goes onto the All Britian, hopefully conditions will be a bit better than yesterday.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1910 - 30/09/2019 14:30:17    2240330

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Awful day for football on Sunday.

Not seen much reserve football before but it was painful to watch, and, not just down to the weather.

Junior final was very one sided. A shame as Dulwich and Wandsworth had a very tight game in the group stage, was hoping for something similar. Unlike their other games during the championship, Wandsworth were very very slow to get going. You give a side like Dulwich free reign for the first 5/10 minutes and you're not going to get back into the game.

Longer term defeat might work out better for the new boys. Think next year they should look to target the cups and the league to get more experience in these big games. Dulwich certainly aren't short of experience there and it showed.

McCurtains winning Intermediate is a fantastic achievement. They are an incredibly well run club and although it was very nervy towards the end(!) they deserved the win. The TCG lads can hold their heads high, the young lads will do well in intermediate again next year.

WestAwake88 (Galway) - Posts: 52 - 01/10/2019 11:32:44    2240572

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Congrats to TMC and Dulwich, both deserved winners and the stand out teams in their respective levels. Has to be said TCG (homegrown) and Wandsworth and are also big winners even reaching the final (and that's not supposed to sound patronising). TCG have shown their strength as a club but being so competitive in both senior and intermediate needs applauding. Similarly Wandsworth who are relatively new to the scene, showing they are well run and have a good side and will inevitably only get better. Disappointing news that Parnells have forfeited the relegation play off this weekend when they would have at least 25/30 to pick from between the senior players and Homegrown team. How can they justify that? KKG will stay up as a result and again that makes a mockery of the championship as they didn't even win a game.

interested32 (Galway) - Posts: 69 - 03/10/2019 08:19:01    2241088

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How seriously will McCurtains and Dulwich take the All Britain play off this weekend? Is the calendar that tight?

Did the fixture take place last year between Neasden and TCG Homegrown?

WestAwake88 (Galway) - Posts: 52 - 03/10/2019 10:16:23    2241104

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Replying To interested32:  "Congrats to TMC and Dulwich, both deserved winners and the stand out teams in their respective levels. Has to be said TCG (homegrown) and Wandsworth and are also big winners even reaching the final (and that's not supposed to sound patronising). TCG have shown their strength as a club but being so competitive in both senior and intermediate needs applauding. Similarly Wandsworth who are relatively new to the scene, showing they are well run and have a good side and will inevitably only get better. Disappointing news that Parnells have forfeited the relegation play off this weekend when they would have at least 25/30 to pick from between the senior players and Homegrown team. How can they justify that? KKG will stay up as a result and again that makes a mockery of the championship as they didn't even win a game."
I don't see any wrong in what the Parnells did myself. They literally only have a handful of senior players this year, why would they expose their youngsters who had a great experience at Junior this year to senior football? Now I know KKG are struggling as well but if Parnells were somehow to beat them, I just don't see the point as they will struggle again next year unless they do some serious recruiting.

TCG intermediates have shown the path for how the St Kiernans and Parnells homegrown lads should go, years of building at Junior level before progressing up the ranks. They need the games as they just don't play enough games at underage compared to lads back home.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think Anthonys asked to be dropped down to Junior a couple of years ago when they survived Intermediate. In my own experience you are better off playing at a realistic level than taking a hammering every week.

Anchorman_6 (Cavan) - Posts: 26 - 03/10/2019 10:51:37    2241113

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Replying To WestAwake88:  "How seriously will McCurtains and Dulwich take the All Britain play off this weekend? Is the calendar that tight?

Did the fixture take place last year between Neasden and TCG Homegrown?"
I'd say both teams are keen to give it a good rattle, McCurtains did well a few years back and lost narrowly to the Warwickshire champions in the semi after winning Junior. Dulwich will have no fear of McCurtains having played each other regularly the last few years and only been a kick a the ball between them. (I think Dulwich would have made the semis in Intermediate this year if they were in it).
As for the tight time frame, believe the winners play Lanchashire champions and looking on the recent posts on here about their championship looks like one of the semi finals has gone to a replay, final was due to be on this weekend. Its been a good few years since a London team won the All Britain. Maybe Fulham back in 2006.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 1910 - 03/10/2019 11:39:58    2241128

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Replying To Anchorman_6:  "I don't see any wrong in what the Parnells did myself. They literally only have a handful of senior players this year, why would they expose their youngsters who had a great experience at Junior this year to senior football? Now I know KKG are struggling as well but if Parnells were somehow to beat them, I just don't see the point as they will struggle again next year unless they do some serious recruiting.

TCG intermediates have shown the path for how the St Kiernans and Parnells homegrown lads should go, years of building at Junior level before progressing up the ranks. They need the games as they just don't play enough games at underage compared to lads back home.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think Anthonys asked to be dropped down to Junior a couple of years ago when they survived Intermediate. In my own experience you are better off playing at a realistic level than taking a hammering every week."
How can they field in 1 Senior Championship this year and only have a handful of players a few weeks later? I'm not suggesting play all the homegrown players but they will supplement the existing team. TCG showed the path while simultaneously fielding a senior team so comparing apples and pears there. I agree playing teams at their own level will be better for them but same goes for KKG, Towers, NLS who know they won't win the senior championship next year (unless something significant changes) but they didn't just throw in the towel.

interested32 (Galway) - Posts: 69 - 03/10/2019 11:51:19    2241130

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Massive Congrats to Dulwich and Tommy Macs, two well run clubs thriving in the south and east respectively. Think there have been some very valid points made on here about Irish being attracted to settling in different areas of London more recently and it probably explains why some of the clubs out west are struggling given how close clubs are to each other.

Dulwich shouldn't have anything to fear next year in intermediate, stand out junior team all year round and deserved champions. Likewise Tommy Macs had a great year winning two competitions, hopefully they can avoid the drop straight away, it can be very tough for intermediate teams moving up to senior grade (without bucket loads of cash).

Great coverage by the Irish World on the games, nice to see. Not much content from London gaa however which isn't surprising.

TCG to beat Kiernans and Neasden to beat Fulham this weekend to set up a mouth watering final. Neasden's bench or lack of could cost them but it's hard to know.

See Tommy Macs play Dulwich in an All Britain contest, think the winner progresses to play in the quarter or semi of that competition around November time, CB are probably trying to run off the games as quickly as possible hence the quick turnaround? Speaking to one of the delegates this morning, I think the party is still going in East London so don't know how competitive the game will be. I'm sure Dulwich are still celebrating too, that cup was a long time coming for them! Always hard to tell how those games go.

Cilldara2012 (UK) - Posts: 88 - 03/10/2019 12:23:42    2241136

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