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CELTIC CHALLENGE - DOWN U17 HURLERS

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Unbelievable Down can't field in the Celtic Challenge tomorrow against Wicklow... whats going on? After winning the competition last year we are now pulling out this year. Why are Down pulling out who made this decision?

trueport (Down) - Posts: 26 - 15/06/2018 22:15:01    2111996

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They can field county board pulled them out due to being disqualified I'm lead to believe

nosides (Down) - Posts: 229 - 15/06/2018 23:53:53    2112012

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Replying To nosides:  "They can field county board pulled them out due to being disqualified I'm lead to believe"
Disqualified? For what

trueport (Down) - Posts: 26 - 16/06/2018 10:12:44    2112048

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Replying To trueport:  "Disqualified? For what"
They fielded their Leinster MHC panelists, in the group Celtic Challenge matches, this is against the rules so disqualified.

downredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 549 - 16/06/2018 10:55:57    2112059

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Why can the county board not state the reason?
Young lads training all year and this happens if it's true

nosides (Down) - Posts: 229 - 16/06/2018 13:31:44    2112089

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Yet another blunder by the county board against the hurling end of the county

trueport (Down) - Posts: 26 - 16/06/2018 15:14:34    2112113

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They weren't disqualified but were told that anyone who played in the Leinster championship couldn't play in Celtic Challenge........this was known months ago yet no steps were taken to create two separate panels or to use the Celtic Challenge as prep with our u16s for minor the following year.......an Armagh team that Down beat by circa 40 points has beaten Westmeath today in the Celtic Challenge highlighting the fact that the stronger 2nd tier counties are using this competition now solely for development that the Celtic Challenge and Minir championship are effectively the same age group.........we are still in the Leinster shield and these lads should get another 2/3 games but would need to get back out training again soon......

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 682 - 16/06/2018 17:07:22    2112148

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "They weren't disqualified but were told that anyone who played in the Leinster championship couldn't play in Celtic Challenge........this was known months ago yet no steps were taken to create two separate panels or to use the Celtic Challenge as prep with our u16s for minor the following year.......an Armagh team that Down beat by circa 40 points has beaten Westmeath today in the Celtic Challenge highlighting the fact that the stronger 2nd tier counties are using this competition now solely for development that the Celtic Challenge and Minir championship are effectively the same age group.........we are still in the Leinster shield and these lads should get another 2/3 games but would need to get back out training again soon......"
'this was known months ago yet no steps were taken to create two separate panels or to use the Celtic Challenge as prep with our u16s for minor the following year'

Sorry to burst your bubble oh knowledgeable one, but where exactly was this 'second panel' coming from? The so-called 'stronger panel' played in Leinster and got destroyed!!! They were just about holding their own in the Celtic challenge against Derry, Tyrone and Antrim! Maybe you and others should just except the fact that, apart from 3 or 4 very good hurlers, this is not a vintage year for this age group! The year group below it isn't much better! That's an issue for the clubs in Down to address! It has nothing to do with the county board, or the current Minor management this year! Waken up and smell the coffee!!

john101 (Down) - Posts: 91 - 17/06/2018 10:58:43    2112228

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Replying To john101:  "'this was known months ago yet no steps were taken to create two separate panels or to use the Celtic Challenge as prep with our u16s for minor the following year'

Sorry to burst your bubble oh knowledgeable one, but where exactly was this 'second panel' coming from? The so-called 'stronger panel' played in Leinster and got destroyed!!! They were just about holding their own in the Celtic challenge against Derry, Tyrone and Antrim! Maybe you and others should just except the fact that, apart from 3 or 4 very good hurlers, this is not a vintage year for this age group! The year group below it isn't much better! That's an issue for the clubs in Down to address! It has nothing to do with the county board, or the current Minor management this year! Waken up and smell the coffee!!"
John - my point is we had two choices either play our u16s in the Celtic Challenge like the likes of Carlow, Westmeath , Kildare have been doing or else not enter at all but we did neither and ended up in the situation were we had to withdraw..........

We need to consider what way we approach this next year as the fact the minor and Celtic Challenge are effectively the same age group makes things incredibly difficult for counties like Down......to be honest there would be more value moving the Celtic Challenge to u19 now or something similar........

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 682 - 17/06/2018 20:45:00    2112412

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I thought the Celtic challenge was brought in for players who weren't sitting any exams to give them game time instead of sitting doing nothing during the exam period?

RedDog68 (Down) - Posts: 160 - 17/06/2018 21:35:39    2112433

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "John - my point is we had two choices either play our u16s in the Celtic Challenge like the likes of Carlow, Westmeath , Kildare have been doing or else not enter at all but we did neither and ended up in the situation were we had to withdraw..........

We need to consider what way we approach this next year as the fact the minor and Celtic Challenge are effectively the same age group makes things incredibly difficult for counties like Down......to be honest there would be more value moving the Celtic Challenge to u19 now or something similar........"
We made a hames of this way back in Feb/March, but nothing was done to redress the issues and this was always going to happen.

Next year we either pick or attempt to pick an U17 team made up entirely of 17 year olds and play them in the Leinster championship and ensure they get loads of friendlies as we can't use the Ulster Celtic challenge or we pull out of Leinster and go full tilt at the Celtic challenge but neither on their own provide enough games for true development purposes.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2308 - 18/06/2018 11:05:30    2112571

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "John - my point is we had two choices either play our u16s in the Celtic Challenge like the likes of Carlow, Westmeath , Kildare have been doing or else not enter at all but we did neither and ended up in the situation were we had to withdraw..........

We need to consider what way we approach this next year as the fact the minor and Celtic Challenge are effectively the same age group makes things incredibly difficult for counties like Down......to be honest there would be more value moving the Celtic Challenge to u19 now or something similar........"
Would have been a waste of time and energy playing the Celtic challenge with an u16 side Paudie, they'd have been well out of their depth! And as you pointed out, it's a minor competition!

The fact is, Down simply isn't producing enough quality hurlers at this age group to run two teams! This year's minor team should have been allowed to focus solely on the Celtic challenge and been able to give the Leinster championship a miss!

I'm sure we all would like to see Down hurling up there with the best of them or at least competing at a higher level but that's not gonna happen anytime soon! We simply don't have the structures in place at this current time! We do the same thing year on year, so why should we expect to get different results!

john101 (Down) - Posts: 91 - 18/06/2018 15:14:21    2112682

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Replying To john101:  "Would have been a waste of time and energy playing the Celtic challenge with an u16 side Paudie, they'd have been well out of their depth! And as you pointed out, it's a minor competition!

The fact is, Down simply isn't producing enough quality hurlers at this age group to run two teams! This year's minor team should have been allowed to focus solely on the Celtic challenge and been able to give the Leinster championship a miss!

I'm sure we all would like to see Down hurling up there with the best of them or at least competing at a higher level but that's not gonna happen anytime soon! We simply don't have the structures in place at this current time! We do the same thing year on year, so why should we expect to get different results!"
John101,

Antrim's Celtic Challenge team is their U16 team.

Whilst we don't have the same playing pool as Antrim we need to concentrate on proper championship hurling in Leinster rather than deluding ourselves that we're competing with "the best" in Ireland against Cork City South minus their first 24 county players in the Celtic Challenge.

We need to be competing and beating the likes of Meath and Kildare if we've serious illusions of beating them at senior level in the years to come.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2308 - 19/06/2018 12:07:22    2113018

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Replying To bricktop:  "John101,

Antrim's Celtic Challenge team is their U16 team.

Whilst we don't have the same playing pool as Antrim we need to concentrate on proper championship hurling in Leinster rather than deluding ourselves that we're competing with "the best" in Ireland against Cork City South minus their first 24 county players in the Celtic Challenge.

We need to be competing and beating the likes of Meath and Kildare if we've serious illusions of beating them at senior level in the years to come."
'concentrate on proper championship hurling in Leinster'!! Did you happen to catch any of the scorelines from this year's Leinster campaign? Think you're the one deluding yourself Bricktop!

'We need to be competing and beating the likes of Meath and Kildare if we've serious illusions of beating them at senior level in the years to come.'

News flash!! The minor squad two years ago were beating Kildare, Meath, Carlow from u16 onwards! A decent squad with some fantastic hurlers and many of the stronger players were non-Ards!

Tired of pointing this out but what was in place for these lads when they came out of Minor! Answers on a postcard!

john101 (Down) - Posts: 91 - 19/06/2018 22:23:14    2113216

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Down have withdrew, end of season for this lot - few players available, manager away and more difficult years to come if you follow underage hurling in Down.

Galgetgael (Down) - Posts: 198 - 20/06/2018 21:18:19    2113450

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Replying To john101:  "'concentrate on proper championship hurling in Leinster'!! Did you happen to catch any of the scorelines from this year's Leinster campaign? Think you're the one deluding yourself Bricktop!

'We need to be competing and beating the likes of Meath and Kildare if we've serious illusions of beating them at senior level in the years to come.'

News flash!! The minor squad two years ago were beating Kildare, Meath, Carlow from u16 onwards! A decent squad with some fantastic hurlers and many of the stronger players were non-Ards!

Tired of pointing this out but what was in place for these lads when they came out of Minor! Answers on a postcard!"
"Tired of pointing this out but what was in place for these lads when they came out of Minor! Answers on a postcard!"

Adult hurling is what is next.

That's one of the reasons by and large very good hurlers in the likes of Liatroim or wherever don't develop unless they're on the county senior squad early on.

Ards hurlers get to play against the best hurlers in Antrim after they finish minor, but the other lads get to play against our seconds teams and that's hardly going to bring you on.

Liatroim and any other club who are serious about hurling need to get into the Antrim leagues and work their way up and that's not easy as Bredagh and Carryduff can attest to.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2308 - 21/06/2018 09:16:57    2113496

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Replying To bricktop:  ""Tired of pointing this out but what was in place for these lads when they came out of Minor! Answers on a postcard!"

Adult hurling is what is next.

That's one of the reasons by and large very good hurlers in the likes of Liatroim or wherever don't develop unless they're on the county senior squad early on.

Ards hurlers get to play against the best hurlers in Antrim after they finish minor, but the other lads get to play against our seconds teams and that's hardly going to bring you on.

Liatroim and any other club who are serious about hurling need to get into the Antrim leagues and work their way up and that's not easy as Bredagh and Carryduff can attest to."
I actually agree with most of what you say Bricktop! In fact, it supports my argument!

The young lads from non-Ards teams are cut loose by the county after minor, they either drift off, or play substandard hurling for years! That doesn't help anyone! Not the players themselves, or the county as a whole for that matter!

The Down senior team is a testimony to your shortsightedness!!

john101 (Down) - Posts: 91 - 21/06/2018 12:52:00    2113559

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Replying To john101:  "I actually agree with most of what you say Bricktop! In fact, it supports my argument!

The young lads from non-Ards teams are cut loose by the county after minor, they either drift off, or play substandard hurling for years! That doesn't help anyone! Not the players themselves, or the county as a whole for that matter!

The Down senior team is a testimony to your shortsightedness!!"
My short sightedness??

Explain.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2308 - 21/06/2018 13:51:34    2113572

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Replying To bricktop:  "My short sightedness??

Explain."
'Adult hurling is what is next.' what a statement!! Are you serious Bricktop!

Down have three senior teams! 1+1+1=3!! They bounce up and down from division 1/2 in Antrim, then you have the likes of Carryduff who are currently in division 3, with Bredagh in 4! The rest are playing in the Down leagues or elsewhere!

If you think the adult hurling scene in Down will solve the counties current problems you are deluded!! All the lads coming out of county minor should be exposed to a higher level of hurling!! That can only be done through a county setup!

Try thinking outside the box for a change!!

john101 (Down) - Posts: 91 - 21/06/2018 17:33:25    2113616

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What, like an U21 "development" Squad?

I'm sure you're aware that there's no U21 intercounty hurling league in any province, It's purely knock out championship as those lads now out of minor (U17) are supposed to be playing adult club hurling.

It happens in Cork, Clare, Galway, Tipp and so on and as much as Down has some unique circumstances, league club hurling is the only show in town. Our leagues are weak and inconsistent, the Tain leagues are a CONC joke, but at least you can get regular fixtures most of the time.

Let's hear your "outside the box" solution.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2308 - 22/06/2018 09:01:33    2113693

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