Westmeath Forum

Club Championships - Football 2019

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Replying To midfield9:  "Rules on amalgamations etc apply to championship and league competitions. The U17 is a knockout tournament and independent teams can be formed to take part. St Vincents and Clann na Gael joined up in the hurling U17 to take part. St Martins isn't an "Amalgamation". If clubs agreed we could have more group teams taking part in these types of tournaments. The whole point is to encourage participation."
Amalgamated teams are the exact opposite of participation
Less players get to play.

It's elitism and trophy hunting

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1718 - 14/10/2019 20:31:58    2243537

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Presumably all clubs were given the opportunity to enter the u17 championship/tournament? From what I can see, only about 12 clubs entered. The u17 is a tournament ran I presume to give games to players under 17 who might not make their minor teams (which is u18). There were u16 and u18 championships independent of this. Under 17 is not an actual grade in Westmeath seen as we have stuck with the u16/u18 model, minor being u18.
As an aside, amalgamations for these "premier" type competitions are not a new thing, I remember "Clann Brannaoin" (Tyrellspass/Miltownpass/St Marys) winning a minor premier championship about 10 years ago. Call it trophy hunting or whatever, but they are what they are: an opportunity for players to play at a higher standard while also playing for their clubs at their own level, ala Kerry club championships at adult level.

TheLineKing (Westmeath) - Posts: 11 - 14/10/2019 21:43:15    2243556

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Maryland/Tang could field a team at both u16 and minor this year.
Millmore Gaels could field a team at both u16 and minor this year.

Id really love the county board or any of these clubs to come out and defend this

the21yardline (Westmeath) - Posts: 124 - 14/10/2019 22:13:56    2243569

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Replying To TheLineKing:  "Presumably all clubs were given the opportunity to enter the u17 championship/tournament? From what I can see, only about 12 clubs entered. The u17 is a tournament ran I presume to give games to players under 17 who might not make their minor teams (which is u18). There were u16 and u18 championships independent of this. Under 17 is not an actual grade in Westmeath seen as we have stuck with the u16/u18 model, minor being u18.
As an aside, amalgamations for these "premier" type competitions are not a new thing, I remember "Clann Brannaoin" (Tyrellspass/Miltownpass/St Marys) winning a minor premier championship about 10 years ago. Call it trophy hunting or whatever, but they are what they are: an opportunity for players to play at a higher standard while also playing for their clubs at their own level, ala Kerry club championships at adult level."
As a County are we not required to run the U17 competition as our premier underage competition as per Croke pk instructions, the alternative is U13/15/17 competitions which our clubs rejected

Westmeathgeal (Westmeath) - Posts: 38 - 14/10/2019 22:45:26    2243574

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Replying To valley84:  "Amalgamated teams are the exact opposite of participation
Less players get to play.

It's elitism and trophy hunting"
Elitism would be having a knock out tournament that only stand alone clubs can enter. This tournament was a bit off fun, a few knock out games with a final in cusack park as the prize.

midfield9 (Westmeath) - Posts: 36 - 15/10/2019 00:37:58    2243588

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Replying To valley84:  "Amalgamated teams are the exact opposite of participation
Less players get to play.

It's elitism and trophy hunting"
Elitism would be having a knock out tournament that only stand alone clubs can enter. This tournament was a bit off fun, a few knock out games with a final in cusack park as the prize.

midfield9 (Westmeath) - Posts: 36 - 15/10/2019 00:38:06    2243589

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speaking as someone closely related to players on the st martins team, i feel like adults on this page who are giving harsh comments about the short term amalgamation are simply taking away from what is a fantastic achievement from a group of lads who joined together on short notice and managed beat teams from north westmeath which otherwise (playing as individual clubs) was unlikely. the way st martins won this tournament is really being made seem like it's not a fantastic achievement due to people bringing them down due to amalgamating with another club. credit to st martins on a fantastic win and hard luck to kinnegad

sportfan22 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1 - 15/10/2019 08:23:23    2243597

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Replying To sportfan22:  "speaking as someone closely related to players on the st martins team, i feel like adults on this page who are giving harsh comments about the short term amalgamation are simply taking away from what is a fantastic achievement from a group of lads who joined together on short notice and managed beat teams from north westmeath which otherwise (playing as individual clubs) was unlikely. the way st martins won this tournament is really being made seem like it's not a fantastic achievement due to people bringing them down due to amalgamating with another club. credit to st martins on a fantastic win and hard luck to kinnegad"
Very easy to manage a team that picks 3/4 of the best players from 4 clubs

Moorehead (Westmeath) - Posts: 107 - 15/10/2019 11:23:19    2243651

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Replying To Moorehead:  "Very easy to manage a team that picks 3/4 of the best players from 4 clubs"
An unnecessary comment. The final was very competitive and it looked for a long time that Kinnegad would win it. Those Kinnegad players have great chance to win the Minor U18 championship final. They won a one sided U17 final last year against the Downs. None of the St Martins players were on teams capable of winning the minor U18.

midfield9 (Westmeath) - Posts: 36 - 15/10/2019 12:32:02    2243668

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Replying To sportfan22:  "speaking as someone closely related to players on the st martins team, i feel like adults on this page who are giving harsh comments about the short term amalgamation are simply taking away from what is a fantastic achievement from a group of lads who joined together on short notice and managed beat teams from north westmeath which otherwise (playing as individual clubs) was unlikely. the way st martins won this tournament is really being made seem like it's not a fantastic achievement due to people bringing them down due to amalgamating with another club. credit to st martins on a fantastic win and hard luck to kinnegad"
The amalgamation is only an issue since they won. Maybe its not the amalgamation that's the issue!
Well done to both teams on a great match, and especially St. Martins for sticking to the task and finishing very strongly.

Well done also to Garrycastle. It didn't look good for them at half time. Super effort in the second half.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1053 - 15/10/2019 13:17:11    2243683

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My take on the Senior final was that it was high on drama with the magnitude of the comeback but not great in quality. First half was one of the strangest halves of football I have seen. Lomans led by 8 without playing well. I couldn't believe how open and loose Garrycastle were in defence. Acres of space for the Lomans forwards and runners and they didn't have to work hard to get in behind Garrycastle. Going forward it was obvious the tactic was to isolate their no 23 in space. Problem was every time he picked up possession he was a distance from the goals with his back to them. Garrycastle failed to get support around him most of the time. Obv the missed penalty didn't help and they blazed one other goal opportunity over the bar. Felt Lomans left 2-3 points behind them in that half also.

Second half Garrycastle really improved. Made tactical changes by pushing up on Lomans and going after the man in possession. They also made personnel changes up front which had a great impact. Not sure what happened Lomans. Looked from the sideline as if their players thought the game was won and were thinking about the celebrations after. Seemed very casual and lacked any urgency or energy about them. Surely they had a discussion at ht in which they were preparing themselves for Garrycastle throwing the kitchen sink at them first 10min of second half. The fact they couldn't wrestle momentum off Garrycastle at any stage for 30 mins of a half suggests a lack of leadership from both the field and the sideline. End of the road for Dempsey at Lomans?

lady_gaagaa (Westmeath) - Posts: 74 - 15/10/2019 14:17:24    2243706

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I think the way they lost in Leinster a couple of years ago has left a big scar in Lomans minds. Very little fight in them when they are under the cosh. Luke said after the game that it was time for a new voice in the camp. Be hard for them to recover from that loss with present panel with a few retirement s thrown in.

Baldy1 (Westmeath) - Posts: 55 - 15/10/2019 15:11:27    2243724

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Replying To sportfan22:  "speaking as someone closely related to players on the st martins team, i feel like adults on this page who are giving harsh comments about the short term amalgamation are simply taking away from what is a fantastic achievement from a group of lads who joined together on short notice and managed beat teams from north westmeath which otherwise (playing as individual clubs) was unlikely. the way st martins won this tournament is really being made seem like it's not a fantastic achievement due to people bringing them down due to amalgamating with another club. credit to st martins on a fantastic win and hard luck to kinnegad"
So what, that's what football is. Very few get to win the top prize. What about the young lads from Kinnegad who didn't get to win because of the amalgamation? Should they amalgamate with Killucan next year so they can beat St Martins? I know it was a close game and another day Kinnegad could beat them but I'm just making a point.

westmeathman99 (Westmeath) - Posts: 38 - 15/10/2019 17:46:14    2243767

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Replying To westmeathman99:  "So what, that's what football is. Very few get to win the top prize. What about the young lads from Kinnegad who didn't get to win because of the amalgamation? Should they amalgamate with Killucan next year so they can beat St Martins? I know it was a close game and another day Kinnegad could beat them but I'm just making a point."
Could you tell us the population of Coralstown Kinnegad and the St Martins area.i would bet that it is twice that of the amalgamation.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 740 - 15/10/2019 21:19:31    2243817

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Replying To westmeathman99:  "So what, that's what football is. Very few get to win the top prize. What about the young lads from Kinnegad who didn't get to win because of the amalgamation? Should they amalgamate with Killucan next year so they can beat St Martins? I know it was a close game and another day Kinnegad could beat them but I'm just making a point."
Coralstown and Kinnegad is an amalgamation too!!...;)

TheLineKing (Westmeath) - Posts: 11 - 15/10/2019 21:39:19    2243823

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Replying To jobber:  "Could you tell us the population of Coralstown Kinnegad and the St Martins area.i would bet that it is twice that of the amalgamation."
As I said bud, just making a point. A point made hypothetically! The previous post said that none of the clubs would usually beat Kinnegad, I made the point that football doesn't work like that. You can't make clubs stronger just so they can beat another.

westmeathman99 (Westmeath) - Posts: 38 - 15/10/2019 22:01:00    2243833

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What's population got to do with it? Combining two clubs is fine as it gives lads games. Four clubs is ridiculous. They beat killucan in semi final, you'll suggest next that killucan have a huge population!!

Bellewest (Westmeath) - Posts: 150 - 15/10/2019 22:28:46    2243839

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Maryland/Tang won the U16 D2 Championship last year and were D1 Minor finalists,Millmore Gaels have been very competitive at this age group over the years floating between D2/D1,both clubs are hardly struggling to field, they had 5 or more County players that started on the County U17 team this year, very hard for stand alone clubs to be competitive against a 4 club regional team. possibly the reason why so many stand alone Clubs didnt enter

this isnt some small "tournament" it is now the premier underage competition with final showcased before the Senior County Final

last year's Minor finals were played off out in Ballinacargy as a D1/D2 double header !!

Westmeathgeal (Westmeath) - Posts: 38 - 15/10/2019 23:58:00    2243847

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Replying To TheLineKing:  "Coralstown and Kinnegad is an amalgamation too!!...;)"
Same club at adult level though.

If this competition was intended to give players more games, why is it run as a knockout at the tail end of the year? And many clubs didn't enter

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1718 - 16/10/2019 07:47:36    2243859

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St Martins is not four clubs, Millmore Gaels is a club in itself, with its own committee and stands on its own. Maryland/Tang I believe is the same but I stand to be corrected on that. There were 5 amalgamation teams in the competition so most people would be under the understanding that this was done to allow lads Under 17 to complete.... but some seem to think it was done to 'just to win'. Kinnegad were good enough to win that game on Sunday but just could not push on and close it out.

abitpeevedoff (Westmeath) - Posts: 32 - 16/10/2019 08:20:55    2243865

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