Monaghan Forum

Malachy's Successor

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You's have miss read my post guys.......il clear it up for you's.

In September 2012 who was Malachy O'Rourke and what was he doing?

Yes,we all knew He was a good club manager with all the clubs he took over,and only he was missing a free taker he would of overseen Fermanagh's first ever Ulster title in 2008.

In 2012 he was NOT ON ANY COUNTY BOARDS LIST for a managers job...........he wasnt been talked about and was a kinda forgotten about at County level,to the extent that he was a selector with Latton for the Championship.

I believe Owen Lennon and Dick Clerkin asked him to take the Monaghan job and he said yes.

When he was announced as manager know one really paid much attention to him as nobody taught he would have done the job he did....................No One!!!

The Monaghan senior football team put Malachy O'Rourke in the shop window for some big job's in the future.

Malachy O'Rourke brought Monaghan football to a level even he didnt think we could reach.

So Guy's let this new management team have their chance,who knows it could just be as good as the last one,personal agendas against the Banty is wrong, and cowardly sitting behind a computer...................Its not the way Monaghan supporters should be acting,taught we were better than that!

Let next season play out, nobody knows whats gonna happen,just like in 2012 heading for 2013.............

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1353 - 10/09/2019 23:47:33    2234260

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Some have wrote here that the true fans voice is never heard , unfortunately these forums don't allow for proper debate on any topic , as for a super backroom team ... most of which were over the under 20's . They lost every game , Wexford and Meath done well under control of our newly elected manager .. not .. This is some reflection on all the grass root supporters who work hard at their clubs .. this is rotten to the core .. as time will tell

stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 118 - 17/09/2019 18:11:26    2236745

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Realistically folks, an ulster title is monaghans only objective

Kerry/Dublin proving they are light years ahead of the rest now
Ulster will be interesting next year, you have tyrone and Donegal and cavan, monaghan, Armagh in the chasing pack

Would anyone disagree with this? Monaghan looked a jaded and fragile looking team this summer.
Drew, mc manus, Darren hughes & vinnie have a lot of miles on the clock with a few others. You could see the youth and pace of Armagh hurting monaghan badly this year

Are we really that convinced the new blood can take monaghan to the heights of super eight football

222 (UK) - Posts: 507 - 18/09/2019 12:50:14    2237073

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Replying To 222:  "Realistically folks, an ulster title is monaghans only objective

Kerry/Dublin proving they are light years ahead of the rest now
Ulster will be interesting next year, you have tyrone and Donegal and cavan, monaghan, Armagh in the chasing pack

Would anyone disagree with this? Monaghan looked a jaded and fragile looking team this summer.
Drew, mc manus, Darren hughes & vinnie have a lot of miles on the clock with a few others. You could see the youth and pace of Armagh hurting monaghan badly this year

Are we really that convinced the new blood can take monaghan to the heights of super eight football"
Power Rankings

1 Dublin
2 Kerry
3 Donegal
4 Tyrone
5 Mayo
6 Cork
7 Galway
8 Armagh

The best of the rest
Monaghan
Roscommon
Kildare
Meath


Its hard reading but Monaghan are just outside the Top 8 Teams

fonzy (Monaghan) - Posts: 63 - 18/09/2019 15:04:53    2237167

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Replying To fonzy:  "Power Rankings

1 Dublin
2 Kerry
3 Donegal
4 Tyrone
5 Mayo
6 Cork
7 Galway
8 Armagh

The best of the rest
Monaghan
Roscommon
Kildare
Meath


Its hard reading but Monaghan are just outside the Top 8 Teams"
Hard reading surely and probably true based on last year but keep in mind we were missing Kieran hughes and niall kierns for all of the league. thats our midfield and the game is often won/lost in the middle. we were also missing finty for a few games i think. that's a big chunk of core footballers.

imagine dublin were missing fenton and mccarthy against kerry.. u could argue the outcome may have been different (definitely the first day)

MalsBalls (Monaghan) - Posts: 77 - 18/09/2019 17:12:17    2237239

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Replying To 222:  "Realistically folks, an ulster title is monaghans only objective

Kerry/Dublin proving they are light years ahead of the rest now
Ulster will be interesting next year, you have tyrone and Donegal and cavan, monaghan, Armagh in the chasing pack

Would anyone disagree with this? Monaghan looked a jaded and fragile looking team this summer.
Drew, mc manus, Darren hughes & vinnie have a lot of miles on the clock with a few others. You could see the youth and pace of Armagh hurting monaghan badly this year

Are we really that convinced the new blood can take monaghan to the heights of super eight football"
Think this is fair comment based on last year. Two schools of thought one that last year was understandably an off year after so many years on the road for a lot of players and let's face it a lot of them looked completely off the pace in matches the first half hour against Cavan some lads were at challenge match pace. The thinking is a few new additions and the show will be back on the road under Banty. Not so sure.Second school of thought is a lot of the players are finished at the higher level of the game been overtaken by other counties in ulster and beyond and huge rebuild needed which will take 3 to 4 years before we have a team capable of challenging again in ulster even.

I think the truth as ever lies in the middle some of the lads from last few years will be back refreshed next year bit like Mayo this summer but some won't and we at the minute have v little proven back up for these lads. Hard to see likes of McManus o Connell Beggan having the same impact again on games they had in 18. Monaghan will need new heroes next year especially in the forwards if they are to progress. Jack mccarron Conor McCarthy really need to lead the attack and assume the mantle. Kieran Hughes staying injury free and playing at 11 or 14 be a big boost.

Think we will be dogged and hard to beat but that said be a big achievement to get back to the super 8s next year after the summer just gone. If we got there id be confident.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1396 - 18/09/2019 21:07:09    2237339

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I think the tactics have to fundamentally change. 3 Ulster Finals, 3 Quarter Finals, one semi final and 3 Super 8 games is 10 games. We scored 2 goals. Under Malachy we were dogged and hard to beat and very, very occasionally, brilliant. But the days of winning games in an arm wrestle are over. We need new, more attacking tactics and that is going to take a while to bed in. I've seen nothing in the club championship that would move the needle for the county. There is potential there but we need McCarthy and McCarron to step up and Banty needs to give O'Hanlon a fair shake, which he didn't get this year I wouldn't be surprised if we went down. Next year's Div 1 is for real. No Cavan or Roscommon scraping the barrell. I wouldn't see it as a bad thing. Championship is everything.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 378 - 18/09/2019 22:37:35    2237374

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "I think the tactics have to fundamentally change. 3 Ulster Finals, 3 Quarter Finals, one semi final and 3 Super 8 games is 10 games. We scored 2 goals. Under Malachy we were dogged and hard to beat and very, very occasionally, brilliant. But the days of winning games in an arm wrestle are over. We need new, more attacking tactics and that is going to take a while to bed in. I've seen nothing in the club championship that would move the needle for the county. There is potential there but we need McCarthy and McCarron to step up and Banty needs to give O'Hanlon a fair shake, which he didn't get this year I wouldn't be surprised if we went down. Next year's Div 1 is for real. No Cavan or Roscommon scraping the barrell. I wouldn't see it as a bad thing. Championship is everything."
Championship is not everything. You simply cannot just turn it on for the championship. Performance is everything.. Winners win, you should be winning all games.. Would Dublin\Kerry be happy to be playing in Division 2? Beating and playing against the top teams is what makes players\teams better..

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 716 - 19/09/2019 10:29:24    2237481

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Championship is everything. League is in my opinion a way to prepare for championship. If that means making mistakes in the league, but learning valuable lessons for championship, then its a success, win lose or draw.

Trial and error leads to innovation.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1056 - 19/09/2019 11:56:36    2237505

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Replying To Farney:  "Championship is not everything. You simply cannot just turn it on for the championship. Performance is everything.. Winners win, you should be winning all games.. Would Dublin\Kerry be happy to be playing in Division 2? Beating and playing against the top teams is what makes players\teams better.."
Donegal won Ulster after getting relegated with a new manager in 2018. So it seems you can turn it on for the Championship. That's those pesky facts getting in the way!
"Performance is everything" is a buzz phrase. Results are everything. We won 2 games out of 7 in last years league one against a team just back from the beach and one against a team who have proved time and again in last 5 years they they are not Div One standard. We survived due to the bigger inadequacies of others rather than any of our own virtues.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 378 - 19/09/2019 20:43:28    2237674

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "Donegal won Ulster after getting relegated with a new manager in 2018. So it seems you can turn it on for the Championship. That's those pesky facts getting in the way!
"Performance is everything" is a buzz phrase. Results are everything. We won 2 games out of 7 in last years league one against a team just back from the beach and one against a team who have proved time and again in last 5 years they they are not Div One standard. We survived due to the bigger inadequacies of others rather than any of our own virtues."
So what Did Monaghan do in 2018?

Won 5 out of 7 matches in the league.. Should have beaten Mayo in one of the lost games only for a crazy refereeing decision, and were well beaten by Galway after getting a red card.. altogether a positive league performance and actually our best league performance in 32 years..

In the Championship.. we got caught out by a late goal by Fermanagh and gifted the Ulster title to Donegal.. which we would have beaten if we got to the final.. We then finished up with our best performance in the Championship in 34 years by narrowly losing to Tyrone in the semi-final..

2018 - So good in the league and good in the championship..

2019 - Last year as you say, we were poor in the League and we were also poor in the Championship.

Thanks for proving my point for me.

As a small county we need to be consistent and win against big boys, we need to prove that we are good enough and we do that by beating them and earning respect.. We are not Kerry who can experiment.. but in 2018 we proved that we can beat them in the league and dominate them in the super 8's You do not build for the future with your senior team, you do everything to win now or you may as well not compete at all...

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 716 - 20/09/2019 10:05:39    2237769

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2020

Away - Dublin, Mayo, Galway and either one of Meath/Donegal?

Home - to Tyrone, Meath/Donegal, Kerry

Tough assignment as always

conjack76 (Monaghan) - Posts: 55 - 20/09/2019 13:51:56    2237825

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Replying To Farney:  "So what Did Monaghan do in 2018?

Won 5 out of 7 matches in the league.. Should have beaten Mayo in one of the lost games only for a crazy refereeing decision, and were well beaten by Galway after getting a red card.. altogether a positive league performance and actually our best league performance in 32 years..

In the Championship.. we got caught out by a late goal by Fermanagh and gifted the Ulster title to Donegal.. which we would have beaten if we got to the final.. We then finished up with our best performance in the Championship in 34 years by narrowly losing to Tyrone in the semi-final..

2018 - So good in the league and good in the championship..

2019 - Last year as you say, we were poor in the League and we were also poor in the Championship.

Thanks for proving my point for me.

As a small county we need to be consistent and win against big boys, we need to prove that we are good enough and we do that by beating them and earning respect.. We are not Kerry who can experiment.. but in 2018 we proved that we can beat them in the league and dominate them in the super 8's You do not build for the future with your senior team, you do everything to win now or you may as well not compete at all..."
Yes but in those years what did we do for the good of the team as a whole? Did we rest senior players that seriously needed a rest or did we flog them? Did we rest players and start a process of blooding new talent?

If we did those things, i would accept inconsistency in the league. Even relegation.

2019 performances are the result of not doing those things. Players got injured and no one was up to standard needed to replace them.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1056 - 20/09/2019 14:55:43    2237840

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Niall Kearns being out of the team has nothing to do with getting flogged..
Barry Kerr going to the USA was not because he played too much football..
Malachy rested Kieran Hughes most of 2018 when he was coming back from injury and he was still injured for 2019.

We are short of players and that is because we have a small pool of players. We are not Dublin\Kerry\Cork
We have a great bunch of lads who put everything into playing for their county.. They would rather win than experiment and hope for a good day in the future.. Don't get me wrong.. we do need to improve the young lads and those who may have missed out. But what inspires them is playing against the top teams and beating them regularly.

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 716 - 20/09/2019 15:30:55    2237853

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Replying To Farney:  "Niall Kearns being out of the team has nothing to do with getting flogged..
Barry Kerr going to the USA was not because he played too much football..
Malachy rested Kieran Hughes most of 2018 when he was coming back from injury and he was still injured for 2019.

We are short of players and that is because we have a small pool of players. We are not Dublin\Kerry\Cork
We have a great bunch of lads who put everything into playing for their county.. They would rather win than experiment and hope for a good day in the future.. Don't get me wrong.. we do need to improve the young lads and those who may have missed out. But what inspires them is playing against the top teams and beating them regularly."
Come on. Small pool or not, we have to start playing someone new.

It becomes a question trust. Trust that you have picked new players as best you can, develped them as best you can and then take a leap of faith a throw them in. It has to be done eventually. Putting it off for short term gain with tried and trusted is myopic.

Best place to take the leap of faith is the league. Management and players should be given the breathing space to allow for improvement of performance, which is more than just putting points on the board on a league table.

In my opinion a player like O'Hanlon might have improved more if he didn't have the likes of McManus around him for a number of games in the league. I know that might not make sense to many, but if you think about it, he would have been the marquee forward for those games, forced into taking responsibility. With McManus there, you have his aura and presence overshadowing him. He is the main man, most of the scores go through him.

Look its all a balancing act when introducing new players and mixing them with the older ones. I really think we got the balance totally wrong last year. I think it should be changed up totally next season. Fresh faces all over the park. I think the Monaghan public would have a level of understanding here if results didnt go our way, especially if we know that we have the few older and experienced aces still up our sleeve ready to come in closer to championship. Unfortunately if it is the same players losing league games like last year, thats when one would worry.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1056 - 20/09/2019 22:26:20    2237956

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Replying To Farney:  "Niall Kearns being out of the team has nothing to do with getting flogged..
Barry Kerr going to the USA was not because he played too much football..
Malachy rested Kieran Hughes most of 2018 when he was coming back from injury and he was still injured for 2019.

We are short of players and that is because we have a small pool of players. We are not Dublin\Kerry\Cork
We have a great bunch of lads who put everything into playing for their county.. They would rather win than experiment and hope for a good day in the future.. Don't get me wrong.. we do need to improve the young lads and those who may have missed out. But what inspires them is playing against the top teams and beating them regularly."
You're taking out of both sides of your mouth. You seem to want Monaghan to beat the big teams but you want new lads and those who missed out to play. Those lads will have a learning curve and Div One is a hard place to have that.
Also you've absolutely no proof thst we would have beaten Donegal in 2018, because it didn't happen. The only reason you say it is because Donegal winning that Ulster disproves your point about links between league and championship. All we know about Donegal is that they disposed of inferior opposition in both Ulster Finals that had beaten us in an earlier round.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 378 - 21/09/2019 09:26:44    2237998

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "You're taking out of both sides of your mouth. You seem to want Monaghan to beat the big teams but you want new lads and those who missed out to play. Those lads will have a learning curve and Div One is a hard place to have that.
Also you've absolutely no proof thst we would have beaten Donegal in 2018, because it didn't happen. The only reason you say it is because Donegal winning that Ulster disproves your point about links between league and championship. All we know about Donegal is that they disposed of inferior opposition in both Ulster Finals that had beaten us in an earlier round."
Loved Malachy but his defensive style of play while making us challenge against the big boys always gave the inferior opposition a great chance against us as opposed to if they played Tyrone or Donegal. This was proven over last few years with our defeats to Down Fernanagh and Cavan who then all got hockeyed when they came up against Tyrone/Donegal.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1396 - 21/09/2019 11:48:11    2238022

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Replying To supermon:  "Yes but in those years what did we do for the good of the team as a whole? Did we rest senior players that seriously needed a rest or did we flog them? Did we rest players and start a process of blooding new talent?

If we did those things, i would accept inconsistency in the league. Even relegation.

2019 performances are the result of not doing those things. Players got injured and no one was up to standard needed to replace them."
I cannot believe what I am reading on this thread . Monaghan have had a phenomenal seven years under Malachy O Rourke . What you are saying is nonsense . He has left not just a very good team but a very good panel . He has brought on a lot of good young footballers . The biggest loss you had all season was Niall Kearns . He's a young player of the type you say should have been brought in .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5009 - 21/09/2019 12:06:45    2238027

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Replying To Greengrass:  "I cannot believe what I am reading on this thread . Monaghan have had a phenomenal seven years under Malachy O Rourke . What you are saying is nonsense . He has left not just a very good team but a very good panel . He has brought on a lot of good young footballers . The biggest loss you had all season was Niall Kearns . He's a young player of the type you say should have been brought in ."
You say that like theres a load of Niall Kearns out there ready to step up. There isn't. No one is saying that Malachy wasn't great but he's gone now and as cold as that is, we move on. And for all his success, the sad thing is we under achieved in those 7 years. 3 Ulster finals in first 3 years followed by none in 4 while not losing to eventual winners in any of those years. 3 wins out of 8 in Croke Park in Championship and those 3 were Kildare twice and Down. And not one of those 5 defeats could you say we went down swinging.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 378 - 21/09/2019 13:25:30    2238053

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Replying To FootblockREF:  "You say that like theres a load of Niall Kearns out there ready to step up. There isn't. No one is saying that Malachy wasn't great but he's gone now and as cold as that is, we move on. And for all his success, the sad thing is we under achieved in those 7 years. 3 Ulster finals in first 3 years followed by none in 4 while not losing to eventual winners in any of those years. 3 wins out of 8 in Croke Park in Championship and those 3 were Kildare twice and Down. And not one of those 5 defeats could you say we went down swinging."
Underachieved ? Before Malachy O Rourke came along when was the last time Monaghan had won a championship match in Croke Park ? 1930. When was the last time Monaghan had won in Ulster before he came along ? 1988. Monaghan went straight grom Division Three to Division One in successive seasons winning both divisions along the way and staying in Division One for six successive seasons which is a record for Monaghan after he came along . Monaghan played in five quarter finals if you include the Galway game last year in seven seasons and came within a hairs breadth of winning a semi final last year. They certainly went down swinging in that one . In seven years the man and his players raised expectations and what they achieved together was staggering . Compare that record to what was achieved with a stronger group of players between 2005-2010. You've had a great seven years . I agree there are very few Niall Kearns out there and I agree that you have to move on but give the man fair credit . We'd love to have him here .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5009 - 21/09/2019 16:29:55    2238077

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