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Galway V Mayo

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Replying To EDH:  "Just reviewed it. Lavelle 32 starts and 16 clean sheets, Power 8 starts and 4 clean sheets.
In fact four of Powers starts occured following the previous number one been dropped.
Mayo in 2016
Donegal in 2017 after the poor Connacht final
Sligo in 2019 after the London game and
Mayo in 2019 again following a poor Connacht final.

They both have the same stats on clean sheets but Power excels on restarts with Lavelle regularly struggling. Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone in league this year come to mind."
Thanks for those stats and those earlier. You could also add the London game to that list.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 774 - 19/07/2019 13:02:46    2213141

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Replying To EDH:  "Just reviewed it. Lavelle 32 starts and 16 clean sheets, Power 8 starts and 4 clean sheets.
In fact four of Powers starts occured following the previous number one been dropped.
Mayo in 2016
Donegal in 2017 after the poor Connacht final
Sligo in 2019 after the London game and
Mayo in 2019 again following a poor Connacht final.

They both have the same stats on clean sheets but Power excels on restarts with Lavelle regularly struggling. Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone in league this year come to mind."
Jesus wept. if you are comparing stats of two lads and because you come up with 50% for both they are comparable I'll leave you be. You mention the "previous number one" being dropped but fail to mention why Lavelle got his spot back from the Connacht Final. You have you mind made up. I've seen enough of both to see they are very good keepers. But for me Lavelle has never had a poor enough game to be dropped. he's had mediocre games like a lot of goalies have. The mistake Power made against Mayo which again can happen was a bigger mistake than any Lavelle has made in the last few years. But of course he made this mistake because he isn't been played enough.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 506 - 19/07/2019 13:29:39    2213152

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Replying To SamandLiamSoon:  "Jesus wept. if you are comparing stats of two lads and because you come up with 50% for both they are comparable I'll leave you be. You mention the "previous number one" being dropped but fail to mention why Lavelle got his spot back from the Connacht Final. You have you mind made up. I've seen enough of both to see they are very good keepers. But for me Lavelle has never had a poor enough game to be dropped. he's had mediocre games like a lot of goalies have. The mistake Power made against Mayo which again can happen was a bigger mistake than any Lavelle has made in the last few years. But of course he made this mistake because he isn't been played enough."
I'm not saying that at all. But you cannot rule out that Power never got his place back in 2018 following his run with Corofin. He was number one at the end of the championship in 2017. He never got a chance to reclaim the jersey and was third choice. He dropped to 4th choice this year behind Ruairi, Ronan (who got injured prematch in Tuam) and Manus who fell out of favour after his Club semi final mistake.
If you dig deeper into the stats, Power had played only 4 games since Lavelle made his debut and three of these following poor displays by Ruairi, the Donegal game in 2017 he then kept his place for the Kerry game, Sligo and Mayo this year. You could argue Lavelle has had 8 times as many chances. But sure as Benjamin Disraeli there are three kinds of lies, lies, damed lies and statistics.

As for Lavelle getting his spot back for the Connacht final we won't know the exact story until Kevin clears that up. But what we do know is that Kevin has a personal preference for Lavelle and that is fine as he has picked him consistently since 2017 unless Galway were under severe pressure following a defeat or poor performance and then he reverted to Power thus putting enormous pressure onto him for these games.

EDH (Galway) - Posts: 347 - 19/07/2019 14:17:40    2213179

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Replying To Ailteoir:  "Neither is good enough. You still haven't refuted the point EDH made. Sure Power has had chances. Lavelle has had many more. How many chances does the latter need?"
I thought it was obvious enough across the posts I made but here is it for you.

Lavelle justified his starting place throughout all of 2018. It had nothing to do with "chances"

FallenStar (Galway) - Posts: 282 - 19/07/2019 16:04:13    2213216

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If we're going to cherry pick bad performances, homepage style, let gets get to the point.

Power has made two howlers leading to opposition goals. Tipperary in 2016, Mayo 2019.
Lavelle to date hasn't.
(Posters tend to bring up the Tyrone game this year as an example, forgetting that Sean Andy O'Ceallaigh was the guilty party here with a suicidal handpass)

His shot-stopping leaves a lot to be desired. Roscommon drawn game 2016, Tipperary 2016.
Lavelle is superior in this regard imo.

His famed restarts which I hear so much about weren't game changing factors in any senior Inter-County game I've watched him play. For example, his kickouts against Mayo left a lot to be desired.

Power in my opinion, is an average keeper, hyped up to an unrealistic standard on account of being part of an excellent club side and general mistrust of Lavelle (which I don't agree with)

FallenStar (Galway) - Posts: 282 - 19/07/2019 16:13:51    2213221

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Replying To SamandLiamSoon:  "Jesus wept. if you are comparing stats of two lads and because you come up with 50% for both they are comparable I'll leave you be. You mention the "previous number one" being dropped but fail to mention why Lavelle got his spot back from the Connacht Final. You have you mind made up. I've seen enough of both to see they are very good keepers. But for me Lavelle has never had a poor enough game to be dropped. he's had mediocre games like a lot of goalies have. The mistake Power made against Mayo which again can happen was a bigger mistake than any Lavelle has made in the last few years. But of course he made this mistake because he isn't been played enough."
Lavelle has been scapegoated for two Connacht finals and never got a "chance" to redeem himself in some supporters eyes

FallenStar (Galway) - Posts: 282 - 19/07/2019 16:15:10    2213222

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Replying To FallenStar:  "Nonsense, he's been on the panel for the last four seasons. Sice had no problem integrating, nor has Ian Burke or Liam Silke after All-Ireland winning campaigns. The truth is Power isn't good enough to hold down the No.1 jersey."
this is an interesting point

if Power was good enough surely he would have went straight back into the starting team like the other Corofin players no?

exceptions are made in this regard if players are good enough, we see it in many other counties.

HighBaIlsPlease (Galway) - Posts: 4 - 19/07/2019 16:20:57    2213225

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lavelle is not good enough- i think we have seen enough of him to know
bernie deserves a protracted run to see if he is- coming in and out over the years is not a fair chance to prove his worth

squares_edge (Galway) - Posts: 599 - 19/07/2019 16:34:37    2213229

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Replying To FallenStar:  "I thought it was obvious enough across the posts I made but here is it for you.

Lavelle justified his starting place throughout all of 2018. It had nothing to do with "chances""
Says the man who talks about what is obvious! FFS what has 2018 got to do with the present? I'd answer that for you but who ever moderates this probably wouldn't let it through.

No surprise though to see you ignoring facts that don't suit you when it comes to chances for both players. Earlier in this thread you were asking how many more 'chances' should Power get. As I said before, how many should Lavelle get? And if you're going to answer, try not relying on performance a year ago.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 774 - 19/07/2019 18:23:10    2213255

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Replying To FallenStar:  "If we're going to cherry pick bad performances, homepage style, let gets get to the point.

Power has made two howlers leading to opposition goals. Tipperary in 2016, Mayo 2019.
Lavelle to date hasn't.
(Posters tend to bring up the Tyrone game this year as an example, forgetting that Sean Andy O'Ceallaigh was the guilty party here with a suicidal handpass)

His shot-stopping leaves a lot to be desired. Roscommon drawn game 2016, Tipperary 2016.
Lavelle is superior in this regard imo.

His famed restarts which I hear so much about weren't game changing factors in any senior Inter-County game I've watched him play. For example, his kickouts against Mayo left a lot to be desired.

Power in my opinion, is an average keeper, hyped up to an unrealistic standard on account of being part of an excellent club side and general mistrust of Lavelle (which I don't agree with)"
Ok so we are going to breakdown performances, it is well documented against Tipperary that the Galway midfield, or any other line including Power didn't function that day, it was said Tipp knew all the calls or that Galway had subconsciously settled for a Connacht title.

As for Mayo match he was put into an impossible position again by management. No wonder the fullback line was so shaken if management did have faith in the chosen number one how could the back three. Anyway, Power could do nothing about the second goal as Gary ODonnell didn't pick up Durcan despite Shane Walsh pointing to him to pick up his man as he was pressing the runner and short kickout, if Gary nailed that tackle or even made a challenge the further mistakes by Silke and Brannigan don't happen, but it was a great finish by the Mayo player. The first goal was a fumble by Power, but go back to the kickout, Johnny Heaney (normally solid) takes two steps in from the sideline and gets under the ball (it happens), everybody in the middle eight switched off and nobody picked up runners (that happened for the second goal also, remember I just explained it to you). But you have to give him some credit for the Corofin kickout strategy(it ain't bad) for an average keeper as you call him.

As for the Lavelle, lets look at the NFL, Cavan game he was poor, Cavan at one stage were down to 12 men yet when they got back to 15 they put the full press on the Galway kickout, from 12 to 8 up with minutes left, Galway crawled home 13 to 11 and but for a monster catch from Flynn on the stand side after Galway lost 6 of the last 8 kickouts Cavan would have won. We will forget about Dublin as he gave them catching practice, Monaghan away again they pressed the kickout as he couldn't get any kickout away, Flynn again saved Galway with another massive catch just under the stand in Inniskeen but it was extremely windy in Monaghan that day (sure he wouldn't be used to that in Salthill). Mayo away another poor performance remember the solo run in the mud and then doing circles when Aidan O'Shea got him, he got a favourable decision from the Ref. In Tuam against Kerry another poor showing, Omagh away no matter what you say he caused both goals, he didn't claim the high ball for the first goal, he was out wandering between the 21 and 45 and called for a ball from Sean Andy, yes he got a poor pass but he never should have been there and again Tyrone pressed his kickouts (there is a pattern developing) Against Roscommon in the league he again flapped under a high ball, a greatful Cox made him pay. His performances in London and the Connacht final are well documented. I could go on and on. Your central agrument is you don't like Power and have a preference for Lavelle and that is fine but we also hear about Lavelles meltdowns in challenge games this year and the Cork game in particular but we give him a pass on that as they may have been experimenting with something. Be in no doubts Galway got beat this year because of a poor kickout strategy, you have to wonder was the strategy so limited because the preferred number one has limitations in his kicking, a great shot stopper (usually) but the one he had to stop against Roscommon he got beat at the near post or did I imagine that.

EDH (Galway) - Posts: 347 - 19/07/2019 20:10:12    2213279

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Replying To Ailteoir:  "Says the man who talks about what is obvious! FFS what has 2018 got to do with the present? I'd answer that for you but who ever moderates this probably wouldn't let it through.

No surprise though to see you ignoring facts that don't suit you when it comes to chances for both players. Earlier in this thread you were asking how many more 'chances' should Power get. As I said before, how many should Lavelle get? And if you're going to answer, try not relying on performance a year ago."
Ok. So let's not rely on performances from a year ago. How about we go on the last match. How would you rate Power by those standards?

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 506 - 19/07/2019 20:31:47    2213291

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Replying To EDH:  "Ok so we are going to breakdown performances, it is well documented against Tipperary that the Galway midfield, or any other line including Power didn't function that day, it was said Tipp knew all the calls or that Galway had subconsciously settled for a Connacht title.

As for Mayo match he was put into an impossible position again by management. No wonder the fullback line was so shaken if management did have faith in the chosen number one how could the back three. Anyway, Power could do nothing about the second goal as Gary ODonnell didn't pick up Durcan despite Shane Walsh pointing to him to pick up his man as he was pressing the runner and short kickout, if Gary nailed that tackle or even made a challenge the further mistakes by Silke and Brannigan don't happen, but it was a great finish by the Mayo player. The first goal was a fumble by Power, but go back to the kickout, Johnny Heaney (normally solid) takes two steps in from the sideline and gets under the ball (it happens), everybody in the middle eight switched off and nobody picked up runners (that happened for the second goal also, remember I just explained it to you). But you have to give him some credit for the Corofin kickout strategy(it ain't bad) for an average keeper as you call him.

As for the Lavelle, lets look at the NFL, Cavan game he was poor, Cavan at one stage were down to 12 men yet when they got back to 15 they put the full press on the Galway kickout, from 12 to 8 up with minutes left, Galway crawled home 13 to 11 and but for a monster catch from Flynn on the stand side after Galway lost 6 of the last 8 kickouts Cavan would have won. We will forget about Dublin as he gave them catching practice, Monaghan away again they pressed the kickout as he couldn't get any kickout away, Flynn again saved Galway with another massive catch just under the stand in Inniskeen but it was extremely windy in Monaghan that day (sure he wouldn't be used to that in Salthill). Mayo away another poor performance remember the solo run in the mud and then doing circles when Aidan O'Shea got him, he got a favourable decision from the Ref. In Tuam against Kerry another poor showing, Omagh away no matter what you say he caused both goals, he didn't claim the high ball for the first goal, he was out wandering between the 21 and 45 and called for a ball from Sean Andy, yes he got a poor pass but he never should have been there and again Tyrone pressed his kickouts (there is a pattern developing) Against Roscommon in the league he again flapped under a high ball, a greatful Cox made him pay. His performances in London and the Connacht final are well documented. I could go on and on. Your central agrument is you don't like Power and have a preference for Lavelle and that is fine but we also hear about Lavelles meltdowns in challenge games this year and the Cork game in particular but we give him a pass on that as they may have been experimenting with something. Be in no doubts Galway got beat this year because of a poor kickout strategy, you have to wonder was the strategy so limited because the preferred number one has limitations in his kicking, a great shot stopper (usually) but the one he had to stop against Roscommon he got beat at the near post or did I imagine that."
He didn't play against Dublin. Bull talk. He was excellent against Mayo in the league. Gale force wind second half he found both Sean Andy and Shane Walsh to get us up the pitch and helped turned the tide when we were under serious pressure. You also failed to mention his solo up the pitch against Mayo that set up the first goal. Don't know what your issue is with Monaghan. Absolute muck match but he made two brilliant saves one in either half. Your comments about Tyrone make you think you weren't there. Only talk after the match was about our full back not the goalie. The fact you didn't know he didn't play against Dublin shows a lo to be honest. It was Manus by the way just to save you the time to looking it up.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 506 - 19/07/2019 20:38:40    2213295

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Replying To SamandLiamSoon:  "He didn't play against Dublin. Bull talk. He was excellent against Mayo in the league. Gale force wind second half he found both Sean Andy and Shane Walsh to get us up the pitch and helped turned the tide when we were under serious pressure. You also failed to mention his solo up the pitch against Mayo that set up the first goal. Don't know what your issue is with Monaghan. Absolute muck match but he made two brilliant saves one in either half. Your comments about Tyrone make you think you weren't there. Only talk after the match was about our full back not the goalie. The fact you didn't know he didn't play against Dublin shows a lo to be honest. It was Manus by the way just to save you the time to looking it up."
Error against Dublin in fairness. I was there in the small crowd as the country watched Ireland get stuffed in the rugby. But the way Fallen Star writes about him you would swear he was Cluxton.

EDH (Galway) - Posts: 347 - 19/07/2019 20:52:39    2213302

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Replying To SamandLiamSoon:  "Ok. So let's not rely on performances from a year ago. How about we go on the last match. How would you rate Power by those standards?"
Poor, as I've said before.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 774 - 19/07/2019 20:59:43    2213305

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Neither of them fill me with confidence.
There has to be another option.

johnterry (Galway) - Posts: 355 - 19/07/2019 21:58:01    2213323

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Replying To johnterry:  "Neither of them fill me with confidence.
There has to be another option."
There aren't many other options. Unfortunately Tadgh O'Malley hasn't kicked on, he looked ok when I saw him for NUIG at Sigerson. It is a pity as he plays club football with Sean Andy and it could work. Cormac Haslam unfortunately may be a little small. The next option is Oran Burke (U20's) but he is not the Corofin number one. Trayers from Tuam I don't think so, Healy Annaghdown was sub keeper on an U21 winning team to his cousin Tom who is the now the Corofin intermediate keeper, O'Donnoghue Claregalway is 34. Only other one is Damien Boyle from Mountbellew who I've only seen a few times. Not sure about the Moycullen keeper, I can't think of his name. I can't see Manus returning.

EDH (Galway) - Posts: 347 - 19/07/2019 22:15:58    2213332

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Replying To Ailteoir:  "Says the man who talks about what is obvious! FFS what has 2018 got to do with the present? I'd answer that for you but who ever moderates this probably wouldn't let it through.

No surprise though to see you ignoring facts that don't suit you when it comes to chances for both players. Earlier in this thread you were asking how many more 'chances' should Power get. As I said before, how many should Lavelle get? And if you're going to answer, try not relying on performance a year ago."
"Sure Power has had chances. Lavelle has had many more. How many chances does the latter need?"

This is what you said earlier. And I responded. The one reason I refer to 2018 is because that was a chance he took. Let's look at them overall. Lavelle gets his first opportunity in 2017, and he takes it with a good league campaign. He had a poor Connacht final that summer (as did many that day), and he's demoted. In 2018, he gets an opportunity to stake his claim again. Despite the horrendous Connacht final the year before, he not only has another solid league campaign but he extends this into Championship too. That's another chance taken.

So I count two before 2019. Not the 32 or four times as many narrative that's developing here.

Power gets his big break out of nowhere in 2016. He starts every game in the Championship that year. However he did not cover himself in glory in the Tipperary game. Nor did the rest of the Galway XV that day but he did make two significant mistakes leading to Tipperary goals.

He gets another chance in 2017, replacing Lavelle for the Donegal game. He did very well that day but wasn't as effective in the quarter-final against Kerry. Certainly not to the same game changing kickout effect same posters have him down as.

So I count two for Power again. I'm sure he would have gotten a third if Lavelle wasn't good enough in 2018. Yet he was, and a lot of people are missing that in this debate. As well as this, while other Corofin players in previous years like Sice, Burke, and Silke can go straight back into the starting XV after long All-Ireland campaigns, Power can't? There could be many explanations for this. And what I think is that Lavelle earned his spot after being given the chance, and Power didn't show enough in both games and in training that he earned it instead. That's my two cents, not that you'll be taking them.

This year was interesting. EDH has gone to great lengths to analyse Lavelle in the League so lets focus on Championship, when Power became available. I felt Lavelle wasn't marvellous against London but nor was he atrocious. The same could be said for Power against Sligo. They were nothing games in the grand scheme of things. I have no idea what happened prior to the Connacht final throw in but for that first half nor will I get into it., Lavelle was fine. The 2nd half he had one terrible kickout I can remember. The rest were normal. Of course, by this stage, every 50-50 was being won by the Rossies whose intensity in the 2nd half Galway had no answer for. Could we say this was his third chance after being demoted for the Sligo game, perhaps.

Power gets an opportunity against Sligo and does as expected. I don't think we were gonna learn anything new that day. The Connacht final comes and goes and much innuendo about why he was dropped. Again I have no idea what happened and will not suggest anything to discredit Power. He does get another chance against Mayo however, and while much debate surrounds how soon he knew about this change, his first half performance was very poor. To his credit, he did improve as the game went on and it would have been very easy to collapse altogether but the performance to me was another confirmation he is not a better option in my eyes.

And if you don't like that opinion, you do not have to. But think about your response a bit longer next time you post here for everyones benefit

HighBaIlsPlease (Galway) - Posts: 4 - 19/07/2019 22:27:31    2213341

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May be a case for some outside the box thinking and look for an outfield player in goal. It's not that unusual. I think Niall Morgan and Rory Beggan both play outfield for their clubs.

Marooned (Galway) - Posts: 1743 - 20/07/2019 02:01:07    2213395

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Replying To HighBaIlsPlease:  ""Sure Power has had chances. Lavelle has had many more. How many chances does the latter need?"

This is what you said earlier. And I responded. The one reason I refer to 2018 is because that was a chance he took. Let's look at them overall. Lavelle gets his first opportunity in 2017, and he takes it with a good league campaign. He had a poor Connacht final that summer (as did many that day), and he's demoted. In 2018, he gets an opportunity to stake his claim again. Despite the horrendous Connacht final the year before, he not only has another solid league campaign but he extends this into Championship too. That's another chance taken.

So I count two before 2019. Not the 32 or four times as many narrative that's developing here.

Power gets his big break out of nowhere in 2016. He starts every game in the Championship that year. However he did not cover himself in glory in the Tipperary game. Nor did the rest of the Galway XV that day but he did make two significant mistakes leading to Tipperary goals.

He gets another chance in 2017, replacing Lavelle for the Donegal game. He did very well that day but wasn't as effective in the quarter-final against Kerry. Certainly not to the same game changing kickout effect same posters have him down as.

So I count two for Power again. I'm sure he would have gotten a third if Lavelle wasn't good enough in 2018. Yet he was, and a lot of people are missing that in this debate. As well as this, while other Corofin players in previous years like Sice, Burke, and Silke can go straight back into the starting XV after long All-Ireland campaigns, Power can't? There could be many explanations for this. And what I think is that Lavelle earned his spot after being given the chance, and Power didn't show enough in both games and in training that he earned it instead. That's my two cents, not that you'll be taking them.

This year was interesting. EDH has gone to great lengths to analyse Lavelle in the League so lets focus on Championship, when Power became available. I felt Lavelle wasn't marvellous against London but nor was he atrocious. The same could be said for Power against Sligo. They were nothing games in the grand scheme of things. I have no idea what happened prior to the Connacht final throw in but for that first half nor will I get into it., Lavelle was fine. The 2nd half he had one terrible kickout I can remember. The rest were normal. Of course, by this stage, every 50-50 was being won by the Rossies whose intensity in the 2nd half Galway had no answer for. Could we say this was his third chance after being demoted for the Sligo game, perhaps.

Power gets an opportunity against Sligo and does as expected. I don't think we were gonna learn anything new that day. The Connacht final comes and goes and much innuendo about why he was dropped. Again I have no idea what happened and will not suggest anything to discredit Power. He does get another chance against Mayo however, and while much debate surrounds how soon he knew about this change, his first half performance was very poor. To his credit, he did improve as the game went on and it would have been very easy to collapse altogether but the performance to me was another confirmation he is not a better option in my eyes.

And if you don't like that opinion, you do not have to. But think about your response a bit longer next time you post here for everyones benefit"
You clearly favour Lavelle over Power which is fine. As I've made clear several times now, I don't think one is better than the other. Both have had chances.

As for your comment: "And I responded. The one reason I refer to 2018 is because that was a chance he took".

It's a pity you don't follow your own advice about thinking before posting. When you made the reference earlier to Lavelle in 2018, you posted as FallenStar. Personally, I don't see the point in more than one account but if it's keeping you happy, I guess that's something.

Ailteoir (Galway) - Posts: 774 - 20/07/2019 12:09:26    2213475

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Replying To Ailteoir:  "You clearly favour Lavelle over Power which is fine. As I've made clear several times now, I don't think one is better than the other. Both have had chances.

As for your comment: "And I responded. The one reason I refer to 2018 is because that was a chance he took".

It's a pity you don't follow your own advice about thinking before posting. When you made the reference earlier to Lavelle in 2018, you posted as FallenStar. Personally, I don't see the point in more than one account but if it's keeping you happy, I guess that's something."
Lavelles performances in goal in 2017 were a big part in why we were promoted from division 2
A number of years up to that from 2012, goalkeeping mistakes in close games cost us results that might have got us promoted earlier
Don't think there is much between the two to be honest,
We are lucky to have the both of them

Maroonedinlongford (Galway) - Posts: 215 - 20/07/2019 22:54:29    2213761

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