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Clare Senior Hurlers 2017

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Who got the first score yesterday, I thought it was Tony Kelly- so they were not behind all day."
They had the Devil by the tail all day ,, alll day oldtourman.....

hoppingball (Galway) - Posts: 963 - 23/07/2017 12:47:59    2021644

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Replying To hoppingball:  "They had the Devil by the tail all day ,, alll day oldtourman....."
A message learned from the game yesterday.We have a very dedicated management ,but they do not have the ability to make changes which are obvious when required.Ithink Anthony Daly could do wonders with the talent available,. he would not allow four puck out on for successive occasions to be made to opposing team. Do we really need Donal Og anyway?

brianboru (Clare) - Posts: 561 - 24/07/2017 03:03:38    2022209

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on reflecting on Saturdays match there is a sense of regret like the Munster final that we somehow left this behind us its no shame in losing to All Ireland champs but we had the shore in sight but failed to reach it.

A number of factors sealed our fate

(1) The loss of form for Tony Kelly Podge and to a lesser degree Colm Galvin
(2) Injuries to David Mac & Aaron Shanagher { how on earth did we engage in a full blooded training session 5/6 days from a knockout match
(3) lack of a reliable freetaker somebody like Colin Ryan
(4) Horror missed chances
(5) The Madness before 1/2 time when we coughed up 4 unnecessary points from short puckouts {Touhy should be there in goal anyway }
(6) Taking off John Conlon { even though he was going badly { surely switch to opposite wing centree forward even Podge was the man to replace at that time
(7) Finally failure to pick players in form {Aaron Cunningham Peter Duggan Cathal McInerney} they made huge impact
(8) David Reidy should not have been dropped
(9) Disallowed goal for Conor it looked harsh to me
In fairness Donal Moloney said after match that they have learned more in 8 months that in all their days at underage

In hope that next year they will bring that knowledge to the table in fairmess this time we went man to man it was a sdhoot out and we nearly did it so i hope we have seen last of negative tactics.
They need to realise that like Kilkeenny always did the forwards have to win hard ball at times that means that you need some tall strong men in hald forward line and i think that for next league Deasy & Duggan & Conlon should be given plenty of matches to gel we already have a lethal full forward line of any McGrath/O Connell/ Shanagher/ Cunningham
Jamie Shanaghan brought intellligeny use of ball to half back line Cleray also but Fitzgereld is very rakeish in his clearances very unpolished
Hope also that Podhe & Tony Kelly get back to where they were in 2013 ans underage

Our management are good lads and i think will learn so hope reamins for this panel

Finally Pairc U Chaoibh magnificent statium a credit to Cork GAA & indeed the GAA period and there was good support there for Clare.

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 532 - 24/07/2017 09:07:26    2022243

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I think there needs to be a bit of a shake up from a mental perspective, these lads for the most part have had successful underage careers and have an all ireland medal. But they dont seem to have that genuine desire and hunger to go that extra mile to achieve success. They need to be made to realise that they are incredibly lucky to have such a talented bunch together and that that have to believe and want another all ireland.

Peter duggan is one of the only players in the county that can give us that edge we need in the half forward line. We all know that he is excellent in the air but before he didbt seem to have the hunger for this level, but when he came on the other day he was excellent, catching balls, winning frees, scoring and most of all he was showing a genuine willingness and workrate. If he can carry this form into next year he will be a massive player for us in future and will mean we wont have to carry passengers

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 24/07/2017 14:16:57    2022595

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Replying To clooney:  "on reflecting on Saturdays match there is a sense of regret like the Munster final that we somehow left this behind us its no shame in losing to All Ireland champs but we had the shore in sight but failed to reach it.

A number of factors sealed our fate

(1) The loss of form for Tony Kelly Podge and to a lesser degree Colm Galvin
(2) Injuries to David Mac & Aaron Shanagher { how on earth did we engage in a full blooded training session 5/6 days from a knockout match
(3) lack of a reliable freetaker somebody like Colin Ryan
(4) Horror missed chances
(5) The Madness before 1/2 time when we coughed up 4 unnecessary points from short puckouts {Touhy should be there in goal anyway }
(6) Taking off John Conlon { even though he was going badly { surely switch to opposite wing centree forward even Podge was the man to replace at that time
(7) Finally failure to pick players in form {Aaron Cunningham Peter Duggan Cathal McInerney} they made huge impact
(8) David Reidy should not have been dropped
(9) Disallowed goal for Conor it looked harsh to me
In fairness Donal Moloney said after match that they have learned more in 8 months that in all their days at underage

In hope that next year they will bring that knowledge to the table in fairmess this time we went man to man it was a sdhoot out and we nearly did it so i hope we have seen last of negative tactics.
They need to realise that like Kilkeenny always did the forwards have to win hard ball at times that means that you need some tall strong men in hald forward line and i think that for next league Deasy & Duggan & Conlon should be given plenty of matches to gel we already have a lethal full forward line of any McGrath/O Connell/ Shanagher/ Cunningham
Jamie Shanaghan brought intellligeny use of ball to half back line Cleray also but Fitzgereld is very rakeish in his clearances very unpolished
Hope also that Podhe & Tony Kelly get back to where they were in 2013 ans underage

Our management are good lads and i think will learn so hope reamins for this panel

Finally Pairc U Chaoibh magnificent statium a credit to Cork GAA & indeed the GAA period and there was good support there for Clare."
Clooney
You did not the mention the attempts at points from long range, and sometimes from ridiculous positions, while a potentially lethal full forward line was starved of possession, when it was also obvious that the Tipp full back lie was far from comfortable.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 25/07/2017 09:00:30    2022975

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Replying To clooney:  "on reflecting on Saturdays match there is a sense of regret like the Munster final that we somehow left this behind us its no shame in losing to All Ireland champs but we had the shore in sight but failed to reach it.

A number of factors sealed our fate

(1) The loss of form for Tony Kelly Podge and to a lesser degree Colm Galvin
(2) Injuries to David Mac & Aaron Shanagher { how on earth did we engage in a full blooded training session 5/6 days from a knockout match
(3) lack of a reliable freetaker somebody like Colin Ryan
(4) Horror missed chances
(5) The Madness before 1/2 time when we coughed up 4 unnecessary points from short puckouts {Touhy should be there in goal anyway }
(6) Taking off John Conlon { even though he was going badly { surely switch to opposite wing centree forward even Podge was the man to replace at that time
(7) Finally failure to pick players in form {Aaron Cunningham Peter Duggan Cathal McInerney} they made huge impact
(8) David Reidy should not have been dropped
(9) Disallowed goal for Conor it looked harsh to me
In fairness Donal Moloney said after match that they have learned more in 8 months that in all their days at underage

In hope that next year they will bring that knowledge to the table in fairmess this time we went man to man it was a sdhoot out and we nearly did it so i hope we have seen last of negative tactics.
They need to realise that like Kilkeenny always did the forwards have to win hard ball at times that means that you need some tall strong men in hald forward line and i think that for next league Deasy & Duggan & Conlon should be given plenty of matches to gel we already have a lethal full forward line of any McGrath/O Connell/ Shanagher/ Cunningham
Jamie Shanaghan brought intellligeny use of ball to half back line Cleray also but Fitzgereld is very rakeish in his clearances very unpolished
Hope also that Podhe & Tony Kelly get back to where they were in 2013 ans underage

Our management are good lads and i think will learn so hope reamins for this panel

Finally Pairc U Chaoibh magnificent statium a credit to Cork GAA & indeed the GAA period and there was good support there for Clare."
Excellent post

BartMcQueen (Cork) - Posts: 196 - 25/07/2017 09:26:38    2022989

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I said it before the game and il say it again now - I have always thought that podge is better starting corner forward and coming deep - rather than playing a kind of floating center forward role!

Then in turn i think kelly is much more effective when he plays center forward rather than when he plays midfield.

I think our full forward line from the first 2 games is the only line i am sure of looking ahead. I think o'donnell, shanagher and mcgrath 100% have to be the 3 in there. I hate leaving podge out but these 3 will offer more of what we need than what podge does. I know a lot of people will think its strange to not mention cunningham, but the fact is that, other than finishing the 2 goals within a minute of eachother - he did nothing for the rest of the game!

Another point id like to make is in relation to conor cleary - i was critical of his for the last few games and i had said he wasnt good enough for no.6 at this level, but he was in my opinion our best player against tipp. But does one quality performance justify sticking with him in future?! To be honest i dont think.

The thing is that nearly every successful team is based on a really good half backline and getting the balance right here is so important. Considering that bugler and donnellan wont be involved our options are - morey, o,connor, dillon, browne, mcinerney, gudgie, fitz, mccarthy, shanahan, conor ryan and cleary.
Just in listing those names - its interesting to see the versatility, for example the first 4 names can also play in the fullback line, mc, most of the rest can play midfield and half foward line as well - with cleary being the only one who you could definitley say is a half back. Verstaility is great but its a negative here as players get moved aroubd cant solely focus on perfecting one position.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 25/07/2017 14:42:59    2023266

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Hurlingexpert ,,, you are dropping Cunningham who belted in two goals and was starved of ball for the rest of the game,,, a stack of wides from way out the country,,, sure a dog with a mallet up his tail end woudnt have Collins on the 40,,, and Bugler on the bench,,,,

hoppingball (Galway) - Posts: 963 - 25/07/2017 15:31:57    2023298

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Guys it's slowly beginning to Dawn on everyone that Cody is 100% right. Each man has to be able to win his own ball. That's high or low. As they say in Kilkenny about ball to the full fiwards , 'the only bad ball is the one that doesn't come in'. Podge, Reidy even McGrath and Kelly are horrible in the air due to height and no real tradition of high fielding. Reidy adds no value to Clare buzzing around like wasp.We 've the same problem in Limerick. Unless they bring back the high Double then at least coach guys to copy S.O.D who gave an exhibition of preventing the back catching by deflecting the ball high up in its arc.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1243 - 25/07/2017 16:24:10    2023336

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Guys it's slowly beginning to Dawn on everyone that Cody is 100% right. Each man has to be able to win his own ball. That's high or low. As they say in Kilkenny about ball to the full fiwards , 'the only bad ball is the one that doesn't come in'. Podge, Reidy even McGrath and Kelly are horrible in the air due to height and no real tradition of high fielding. Reidy adds no value to Clare buzzing around like wasp.We 've the same problem in Limerick. Unless they bring back the high Double then at least coach guys to copy S.O.D who gave an exhibition of preventing the back catching by deflecting the ball high up in its arc."
Many reasons have been given for Clare,s defeat to Tipp. in the quarter final.The obvious reason for Clare's defeat was the inability of MCINERNEY to play.His loss was huge.There is no way Tipp could have scored so much if he was present.Mavbe more care must be taken in the prematch preparation games.Depending on who is available the game in BOSTON in November should be interesting.

brianboru (Clare) - Posts: 561 - 25/07/2017 22:49:01    2023548

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Replying To hurlingexpert:  "I said it before the game and il say it again now - I have always thought that podge is better starting corner forward and coming deep - rather than playing a kind of floating center forward role!

Then in turn i think kelly is much more effective when he plays center forward rather than when he plays midfield.

I think our full forward line from the first 2 games is the only line i am sure of looking ahead. I think o'donnell, shanagher and mcgrath 100% have to be the 3 in there. I hate leaving podge out but these 3 will offer more of what we need than what podge does. I know a lot of people will think its strange to not mention cunningham, but the fact is that, other than finishing the 2 goals within a minute of eachother - he did nothing for the rest of the game!

Another point id like to make is in relation to conor cleary - i was critical of his for the last few games and i had said he wasnt good enough for no.6 at this level, but he was in my opinion our best player against tipp. But does one quality performance justify sticking with him in future?! To be honest i dont think.

The thing is that nearly every successful team is based on a really good half backline and getting the balance right here is so important. Considering that bugler and donnellan wont be involved our options are - morey, o,connor, dillon, browne, mcinerney, gudgie, fitz, mccarthy, shanahan, conor ryan and cleary.
Just in listing those names - its interesting to see the versatility, for example the first 4 names can also play in the fullback line, mc, most of the rest can play midfield and half foward line as well - with cleary being the only one who you could definitley say is a half back. Verstaility is great but its a negative here as players get moved aroubd cant solely focus on perfecting one position."
my last comment on Clare for 2017, many of you are aware that Clare was my dark horse for 2017, here's what I have discovered - Clare have now lost (possibly forever) the magic from that golden U21 squad, there were great at that underage level but they have failed to mature into winning seniors, the management team were carried on the crest of that young squad (sure even I would have been able to manage guys like that), management, by their own declaration, have learned much in the last 8 months, suggest Clare had a better man readily available but spurned him such was the starvation to rekindle the underage magic, Clare came so close to being knocked out of Munster by Tipperary with the first U21 squad, injury time goal in Ennis, Loughnane insisted Clare were fortunate (not his words) to win 2013, what's needed now is a new management team, current management are unqualified to manage a senior team (club or county), Daly needs to be given complete control for 5 years, Podge's goose is cooked following his cruciate, the full back line needs to become the halfback line (Morey, McInerney and O'Connor), the half forward line needs to be replaced in block (as they duly were in Pairc Ui Chaoimh), tight marking corner backs are needed to support Dillon and probably Taffee from Tubber needs to be restored to goals, McGrath is the rough diamond that can form an axis with Kelly and Galvin - there's loads of work but change must be embraced before Winter sets in.

TouchOfClass (Galway) - Posts: 730 - 25/07/2017 23:00:37    2023553

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Look i think its embarressing to even consider changing the management at thid stage.
The management were given 2 years. At the start of this year/ end of last year when they took over they were not facing into a complete re build of the team - they had worked with the majority of those lads before. This year although they may not have said it - for them was probably about getting the understanding of senior hurling and learning about what is required. As well as working with the few players they had not previously worked with.
Next year, one would think is the year they will have been targeting. With the quality of players that they have and due to the fact they they only signed up for 2 years, next year has to produce silverware.

But in saying that i think donal og cusack should depart from the management team at this stage. Its hard to see anything positive he brings / has brought to us in the past 2 seasons. So i think its time he was replaced. It would be great to get paul kinnerk back involved with the 2 lads but i dont know if that would be possible given his commitments with limerick at the moment.

The way hurling is at the moment, strength is such an important factor. I think players like reidy abd podge are just too small and i dont think they can be in the starting team next year! Aside from the 15 that started the last day theres 5 players i can pick out that can add that bit of strength - davy mcinerney, aron shanagher, jason mccarthy, peter duggan and conor ryan if he is able to return to this level. I would probably start all that 5!!

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 27/07/2017 09:58:30    2024314

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Replying To TouchOfClass:  "my last comment on Clare for 2017, many of you are aware that Clare was my dark horse for 2017, here's what I have discovered - Clare have now lost (possibly forever) the magic from that golden U21 squad, there were great at that underage level but they have failed to mature into winning seniors, the management team were carried on the crest of that young squad (sure even I would have been able to manage guys like that), management, by their own declaration, have learned much in the last 8 months, suggest Clare had a better man readily available but spurned him such was the starvation to rekindle the underage magic, Clare came so close to being knocked out of Munster by Tipperary with the first U21 squad, injury time goal in Ennis, Loughnane insisted Clare were fortunate (not his words) to win 2013, what's needed now is a new management team, current management are unqualified to manage a senior team (club or county), Daly needs to be given complete control for 5 years, Podge's goose is cooked following his cruciate, the full back line needs to become the halfback line (Morey, McInerney and O'Connor), the half forward line needs to be replaced in block (as they duly were in Pairc Ui Chaoimh), tight marking corner backs are needed to support Dillon and probably Taffee from Tubber needs to be restored to goals, McGrath is the rough diamond that can form an axis with Kelly and Galvin - there's loads of work but change must be embraced before Winter sets in."
TOCH OF CLASS, for all the reasons you give,and more, I agree the management team should be replaced immediatelyThe result of THEIR work last year is proof enough. They just don't have it,even though I,m sure they tried their best.AnthonyDaly is the best replacement available.Iwould suggest he make the decision of the length of the tenure that would satisfy himAnd NO.we don't need Donal Og any more!!!!!!!!!

brianboru (Clare) - Posts: 561 - 27/07/2017 16:20:48    2024543

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Replying To brianboru:  "TOCH OF CLASS, for all the reasons you give,and more, I agree the management team should be replaced immediatelyThe result of THEIR work last year is proof enough. They just don't have it,even though I,m sure they tried their best.AnthonyDaly is the best replacement available.Iwould suggest he make the decision of the length of the tenure that would satisfy himAnd NO.we don't need Donal Og any more!!!!!!!!!"
Quiet honostly i find this talk about sacking current management boring it wont and should not happen, they gave us the best hurling time ever in Clare, had a bit of luck as somebody said in Ennis V Tipperary in Munster Final that started the 3 in a row but even Kilkeeny were lucky at times.
They are good guys who will have learned a lot and as Anthony Daly said its unforgiving at this level. Does the players not bear any responsibility we have an excellent full forward line starved on 2 days ofd possession terrible wides frees hardly management faults plus we had crucial injuries.

i go to a fair amount of matches and quiet honostly i cannot give 15 names outside current PANEL that i could name potential county men Nicky O Connell had great potential as did Stepen O Halloran of Clarecastle.

Our u21 team went down badly to Limerick but has no Clarecastle Newmarket or Sixmilebridge Players 3 off the best traditionbal clubs in Clare that must be telling.
To me the best Club hurlers this year were in Ballyea & Clonlara but Ballye especially { best in Ireland} Paul Flanagan seems to be totally gone off radar fine hurler im my opinion.

I think next year we will enjoy watching Clare more but i think our expectations will have to be downsized i think we are outside top 4 at moment anyway last 20 years has been great in Clare IMO

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 532 - 28/07/2017 08:58:21    2024755

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I agree with most of that clooney, but i definitley do not agree with downsizing expectations!! Our expectations should be on winning an all ireland and nothing less!!

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 28/07/2017 10:13:50    2024786

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Replying To clooney:  "Quiet honostly i find this talk about sacking current management boring it wont and should not happen, they gave us the best hurling time ever in Clare, had a bit of luck as somebody said in Ennis V Tipperary in Munster Final that started the 3 in a row but even Kilkeeny were lucky at times.
They are good guys who will have learned a lot and as Anthony Daly said its unforgiving at this level. Does the players not bear any responsibility we have an excellent full forward line starved on 2 days ofd possession terrible wides frees hardly management faults plus we had crucial injuries.

i go to a fair amount of matches and quiet honostly i cannot give 15 names outside current PANEL that i could name potential county men Nicky O Connell had great potential as did Stepen O Halloran of Clarecastle.

Our u21 team went down badly to Limerick but has no Clarecastle Newmarket or Sixmilebridge Players 3 off the best traditionbal clubs in Clare that must be telling.
To me the best Club hurlers this year were in Ballyea & Clonlara but Ballye especially { best in Ireland} Paul Flanagan seems to be totally gone off radar fine hurler im my opinion.

I think next year we will enjoy watching Clare more but i think our expectations will have to be downsized i think we are outside top 4 at moment anyway last 20 years has been great in Clare IMO"
Clooney
When you mention those great clubs that were not represented on the Clare . I think you highlight a problem fife. In the Under Munster Final, Blackrock, Finbarrs, glen Rovers, Ahane , Croom and Claughaun, all great clubs in recent decades ahd two players involved between the six of them.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 28/07/2017 23:37:11    2025186

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Clooney
When you mention those great clubs that were not represented on the Clare . I think you highlight a problem fife. In the Under Munster Final, Blackrock, Finbarrs, glen Rovers, Ahane , Croom and Claughaun, all great clubs in recent decades ahd two players involved between the six of them."
I agree that some of those clubs are in trouble due to demographics. Claughaun and Glen Rivers, St Finnbars are all in old urban areas with aging populations. Glen Rovers are still doing well. Croom are diabolical at all grades. Blackrock are dominating underage and will be fine. Ahane have a reasonable structure and a healthy population growth. Sixmilebridge are Sixmilebridge...they Hoover up underage titles
...final of feile this year and favourites for Clare county championship.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1243 - 31/07/2017 12:09:49    2026574

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Clarecastle and newmarket wouldnt even be in contention for the senior championship and have won nothing underage in quiet a while! I think their days of being "big" clubs are over for the forseebale future.

Sixmilebridge on the other hand - i think are undoubtedly the biggest club in the county. When you factor in past achievements, underage success and just sheer playing numbers theres no doubt they are the biggest club right now. They are the only club currently fielding 4 adult teams. And the fourth team is very competitive at junior a level. Its a phenomenal pool of players!!

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 31/07/2017 14:28:12    2026676

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As I predicted Ballyea's defeat in the club final would be devastating on Tony Kelly. It has being he has lost his confidence of the old real Tony. Don't know how it can be mended. A dynamic Tony is what Clare winning was build round.
Clare without a reliable free taker is taking a hiding for starters. Tony Kelly is not a natural free-taker and I think his misses contributes to undermining of confidence. Colin Ryan made an impression when he came on in 2016 when Clare were in trouble. Still think he could be fitted into a Clare team when we haven't such. Just to mention don't know Colin and I have no association whatsoever with Newmarket. Again look at the effect Cork's Pat Horgan has. Clare needs a goalkeeper. A goalkeeper job description is no longer just minding between the posts but more important in the puck-outs. Foolish puck-outs cost at least 5pts in the Tipp quarterfinals. Just look at the impact Nash is having with this.
Height does matter just look at the effect Peter Duggan had when introduced in this game. From what I can't forgive in that game was Podge had nothing but the keeper for goal and he ran out to the wing. A forward doing this has lost the killer instinct that one needs.
Clare's magnificent winning U21 are in the last drink saloon, they are losing far too often, loosing too often destroys confidence.
Where has Darach Honan gone while not a great finisher but was good in the air. Clare to win anything have to regain their competitiveness but for starters we need a freetaker, goalkeeper, and a leader on the field in an inform Tony Kelly

onthestand (Clare) - Posts: 25 - 01/08/2017 12:04:38    2027271

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Lads I think we are all perhaps over analyzing the team a bit. As Eddie Brennan said, if Clare improved their shooting by 20% they would probably be Munster champions now.

The last 20 mins against Tipp were the best we hurled in a long time, we just went for it. We left ourselves open at the back at times but at least we were positive. We have created about 5 or 6 goal scoring chances in each of our 3 games this summer. Last year, we were barely creating one and scoring on average about 17/8 points a game, this year we hit 3.16, 1.20 and 3.16 again. Improve the shooting, and also get davy mac and hopefully a fully fit conor ryan back and our defence will improve.

We are yet to get the balance between power and skill right but we are getting there. Mgmt made mistakes but they also did well and some players have really improved this year. Galvin, Kelly and Podge are out of form, Conlon too and ultimately you cannot win with your top guns misfiring.

The Cork game was the big regret, that was very winnable, and would have been silverware with a semi final this Sunday knowing who you play in the final. The 20 mins after half time that day dictated our summer. Overall though, no complaints, we are top 6 side at present, and have work to do to get back to the big time in croker.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1009 - 09/08/2017 11:34:33    2031500

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