Clare Forum

Clare Senior Hurlers 2017

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "People have different opinions LRH. After all you said Seamus Hickey was a busted flush and should be dropped, and he held Tony Kelly scoreless yesterday and Manager O'Connor very graciously praised him on his performance, one of our few bright ones."
I retracted that comment on another thread - Hickey had a fine game. There is more to the Kelly situation however as he appears stuck to the ground at the moment. The club campaign has sucked the life out of him.

I understand people have opinions but some opinions are totally unfounded. The semi retired DF claims before the game that he couldnt see how Clare could win the game. The few injuries Limerick had no give him an excuse but the reality is that I couldnt at any point in the lead up see Clare losing the game.

Limerick are going through a transition that could be 2-3 years in the making. The likes of Hickey and McCarthy are important for the time period but are not the answer going forward.

For what its worth I think McCarthy is getting slammed somewhat unfairly. He held his man scoreless and therefore, performed the key job of a full back. Finn is being praised from all angles but his man took him for 1-3? Strange really.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2011 - 06/06/2017 03:13:41    1995354

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Mighty to win, so relieved. We were much the better side it was a nervy ending. Winning by a small amount is probably good as we will go into the final with a lot to prove and the hype will be low.

We have an issue with the balance of the half back and half forward line but overall I am happy the way we played. Kelly and Podge were quiet and didn't score yet we ran up 3-17.

Cork and especially Waterford will be a major step up in class but its doable. We have guaranteed a 1/4 final place so already we have equaled last year's achievements. My own personal viewpoint is that we are a year away from where we want to be under this mgmt team but this is an open year so lets see if we can pick up some more silverware.

Hon The Banner.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1009 - 06/06/2017 11:32:05    1995470

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "I retracted that comment on another thread - Hickey had a fine game. There is more to the Kelly situation however as he appears stuck to the ground at the moment. The club campaign has sucked the life out of him.

I understand people have opinions but some opinions are totally unfounded. The semi retired DF claims before the game that he couldnt see how Clare could win the game. The few injuries Limerick had no give him an excuse but the reality is that I couldnt at any point in the lead up see Clare losing the game.

Limerick are going through a transition that could be 2-3 years in the making. The likes of Hickey and McCarthy are important for the time period but are not the answer going forward.

For what its worth I think McCarthy is getting slammed somewhat unfairly. He held his man scoreless and therefore, performed the key job of a full back. Finn is being praised from all angles but his man took him for 1-3? Strange really."
Any of the 2005 Minor All Ireland Minor Final team,(McCarthy, Jim Bob, Gavin O'Mahony, Condon and Hickey, are not the answer going forward, but Hickey has a year or two more in him, just to help to settle in the young players.
You are basically right about McCarthy last Sunday but he should not be coming so far out the field and should not have left two rookie corner backs to defend a square dropping against three experienced Clare men. Significantly the 'extra man' was not Ritchie's man however. I also think that Hannon could be much better going forward, if he avoids injury, as you cannot spend a month off the training field at the height of the season without an adverse effect.
However I feel our biggest elephant in the room is what to do about our goalkeeper. He very seldom,if ever, makes a truly brilliant save and we have a goalie who do to College obligations cannot join the panel throughout the year. I just feel whatever the circumstances, allowances should be made and Eoghan McNamara should be the man to guard the net.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 06/06/2017 11:46:14    1995483

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Replying To brianboru:  "Clare were the better team and deserved to win by a biggerscoreline,. Mcgrath and O Donnell were magnificent,Kelly will need to improve for the Munster final,but should be given the job of free taker.Iwould drop Reidy from the panel, a nice enough hurler but a ligthtweightWe have a huge problem with the goalie position. Ihave been saying that for monthsNone of the present panel is up to par,That was obvious all year but the management failed to look at other possibilities within the county.and now have left us with quite a problem!!!!!!"
Mental comment - you would drop Reidy?? He shouldnt be on frees but dropping him would be madness - if ye dont want him send him over to us!

McFan88 (Limerick) - Posts: 405 - 06/06/2017 12:12:27    1995504

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Let's start with the positives - Clare did win and are into their first Munster final since 2008. They also scored goals. I don't care how they got them. Mc Inerney & Morey were solid. Conlan, O Donnell and Mc grath looked sharp (3 players arguably more important than the trio of Kelly, Galvin and Podge for pure impact) and the subs we brought on made a big impact. Im not worried about POC either, first game back in a while so the full back line is set for me.

Now for the negatives - Kelly looked exhausted and stuck to the ground. Our goalie situation is at critical status. Can't believe how poor we are in this area tbh. Thought Cleary looked every shaky at CB. Podge looked lost. Reidy was dire on the frees. We have no dead eye marksman and havent since colin ryan left. Huge issue.

Limerick had 11 wides in the first half. Even if they had scored 3-4 of them (some were woeful misses tbf) it would have been a different game going in at half time. Clare still would have won i reckon but still.

A lot of the players were nervous which is to be expected, it was a huge game and they did win but I think we are a good bit off Galway, KK, Tipp and waterford

doyler5 (Limerick) - Posts: 44 - 06/06/2017 12:26:51    1995514

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I cannot believe that the mamagent didnt have a puck out strategy in place!! Everyone has been aware that after the league fahy would be selected. I presumed after an 8 week break we wouls have had a strategy in place and we would have been able to effectively win our own puckouts. Fahys most times just aimlessly tried to hit it as far as he could. Then on 4 or 5 occasions, he hit it straight over the sideline!!

Our 3 goalkeepers are of similar standard but i have always thoughtvpa kelly was the best option because he has the best distribution!
Also fahy may have been unsighted for limerick second goal but from that distance he needs to do better. Starting with his own positioning. He was also at fault for the first goal as it was a poor save (should have been comfortably dealt with) leaving it there for the forward to finish. I think we need kelly back in.
Reidys place on the panel is obviously not in doubt but his place in the starting 15 might be now!! Personally i would have mcgrath on the frees.
Management also need to try to get kelly more involved, hopefully fatigue was the issue with him on sunday as i would like to see the same forward line in the munster final. Puckout strategy didnt help get the most of of him anyway thats for sure.
I think jason mccarthy could start midfield the next day. Gudgie was a little disappointing i must admit. Cian dillon or oisin o'brien could come into corner back with pat o'connor possibly going to the wing.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 06/06/2017 14:27:14    1995627

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Management have to address a number of areas

(1) Puck outs need a plan Nash for Cork has it perfected if Fahy cannot be master at this then Touhy is a better goalie
(2) Ball winners in half forwards we wont get away with Podge & Tony Kelly on same line only Conlon can win a ball over his head Malone cant do it either or Golden so it was very strange to see neither Peter Or Bobby Duggan in first 26 at least. Hope Deasy is fit soon he is both a freetaken and a ball winner
(3) Freetaking was awful our other options are Conor McGrath Tony Kelly or Shanagher all only middling on frees

I know this sounds like Ger Loughnane in yesterdays Star but he made a lot of sense as always

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 532 - 06/06/2017 14:37:05    1995640

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Replying To doyler5:  "Let's start with the positives - Clare did win and are into their first Munster final since 2008. They also scored goals. I don't care how they got them. Mc Inerney & Morey were solid. Conlan, O Donnell and Mc grath looked sharp (3 players arguably more important than the trio of Kelly, Galvin and Podge for pure impact) and the subs we brought on made a big impact. Im not worried about POC either, first game back in a while so the full back line is set for me.

Now for the negatives - Kelly looked exhausted and stuck to the ground. Our goalie situation is at critical status. Can't believe how poor we are in this area tbh. Thought Cleary looked every shaky at CB. Podge looked lost. Reidy was dire on the frees. We have no dead eye marksman and havent since colin ryan left. Huge issue.

Limerick had 11 wides in the first half. Even if they had scored 3-4 of them (some were woeful misses tbf) it would have been a different game going in at half time. Clare still would have won i reckon but still.

A lot of the players were nervous which is to be expected, it was a huge game and they did win but I think we are a good bit off Galway, KK, Tipp and waterford"
There was three wides all from good positions after Paul Brown levelled the game and Clares next score. That was a killer for Limerick. We would not have won anyway but it would have made for a better game.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 06/06/2017 15:57:53    1995708

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Leave Fahey in the goals,,, put Bugler on the forty, believe Fahey is also a serious long range free taker,,,,

hoppingball (Galway) - Posts: 963 - 06/06/2017 19:36:51    1995925

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Loughnanne said our 3 problems are, puckouts, ball winners and feee taking. Now on the face of it they are 3 fair points. The issue i have with his comments are what he said about '13 and about the character and ability of the current squad.

Just going back to his points , there is only 1 player

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 06/06/2017 22:28:18    1996090

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Loughnanne said our 3 problems are, puckouts, ball winners and feee taking. Now on the face of it they are 3 fair points. The issue i have with his comments are what he said about '13 and about the character and ability of the current squad.

Just going back to his points , there is only 1 player on the panel who could be brought in as a ball winning half forward. Thats is peter duggan, if peter could only preduce his club and underage form and class at this level he would solve all our problems. He is a quality free taker and incredible in the air. For some reason that i dont think anyone here knows why - peter has never came close to delivering at this level.
Another point to note is that the best free taker on the panel is bobby duggan who also seems to be out of favour , although i understand he is going on a j1 this summer.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 06/06/2017 22:32:34    1996094

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I have been preaching for a long time about our problems in the air and physical stakes. I thought the option was to drop Galvin to bring in a more physical presence. After seeing Galvin the last day I was wrong but something needs to give. We must bring a more physically imposing player into our half forward line. The dogs on the street could see the picked half forward line would struggle to play the role of a traditional half forward line.

What about:

Fahy

Dillon McInerney Morey

POC Cleary Fitzgerald

Kelly Galvin

Shanagher Podge (if fit) Conlon

O Donnell McGrath Reidy

Reidy to take close frees, Kelly from deeper.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2011 - 07/06/2017 07:52:17    1996162

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Replying To hurlingexpert:  "Loughnanne said our 3 problems are, puckouts, ball winners and feee taking. Now on the face of it they are 3 fair points. The issue i have with his comments are what he said about '13 and about the character and ability of the current squad.

Just going back to his points , there is only 1 player on the panel who could be brought in as a ball winning half forward. Thats is peter duggan, if peter could only preduce his club and underage form and class at this level he would solve all our problems. He is a quality free taker and incredible in the air. For some reason that i dont think anyone here knows why - peter has never came close to delivering at this level.
Another point to note is that the best free taker on the panel is bobby duggan who also seems to be out of favour , although i understand he is going on a j1 this summer."
Good post I think that no matter what systems teams come up with it always goes back to the basics being able to contest win your own hard ball.

Cork and indeed Galway beat Tipperary by taking the play away from the Mahers but it will only work some days you have to have a good half back line to win major games but you also have to have strong Half Forwards to win at least some off your own puckouts.
The management tried Cathal Malone all through the league and while he does contribute, he is not the ball winner he should be I dont think that this management favour hurlers like Peter Duggan they seem to like those lovely touch hurlers that we have (turning Jarleth Colleran in to a corner back for instance) but you only can have so many small/average players on a team. We have Reidy/Galvin/Podge/Shane O Connell/Sheana
If Deasy was fit and available he could do a job but i think selectors should at least have Duggan in the panel of 26 the Cork half back line looks very solid but if its Waterford with 4 in half back line how are we going to win puck outs.

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 532 - 07/06/2017 11:35:21    1996333

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "There was three wides all from good positions after Paul Brown levelled the game and Clares next score. That was a killer for Limerick. We would not have won anyway but it would have made for a better game."
Agree, Limerick are not as bad as many people are saying, they just didn't turn up and lacked intensity. I thought Limerick would leather into Clare and impose themsleves.

doyler5 (Limerick) - Posts: 44 - 07/06/2017 12:53:47    1996403

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Kelly - Reidy
Galvin Bugler Conlon
Collins O'Donnell McGrath

hoppingball (Galway) - Posts: 963 - 07/06/2017 13:21:33    1996427

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Replying To clooney:  "Good post I think that no matter what systems teams come up with it always goes back to the basics being able to contest win your own hard ball.

Cork and indeed Galway beat Tipperary by taking the play away from the Mahers but it will only work some days you have to have a good half back line to win major games but you also have to have strong Half Forwards to win at least some off your own puckouts.
The management tried Cathal Malone all through the league and while he does contribute, he is not the ball winner he should be I dont think that this management favour hurlers like Peter Duggan they seem to like those lovely touch hurlers that we have (turning Jarleth Colleran in to a corner back for instance) but you only can have so many small/average players on a team. We have Reidy/Galvin/Podge/Shane O Connell/Sheana
If Deasy was fit and available he could do a job but i think selectors should at least have Duggan in the panel of 26 the Cork half back line looks very solid but if its Waterford with 4 in half back line how are we going to win puck outs."
What about Fitzgerald in the half forward line?

POC or Dillon could replace him in the half back line.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1055 - 07/06/2017 13:56:23    1996453

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I thint it may be a bit late in the year now to move fitzgerald, i was advocating for this move earlier in the year but realistically its too late now.

With regard to deasy i think if hes a good club player and a decent free taker. But i think its a step too far to expect him to be a ball winner at this level. Also it is very different taking frees in front or <1000 people in comparison to >20000 at this level.

As far as i know oisin o'brien is very close to a return to action. I think he will come back in a corner back, with o'connor going to the wing to replace gudgie. Its unlikely that reidy or any of the forwards would get dropped, only change i could possible see is if podges injury rules him out as from what ive heard he could be very doubtful.

I wouldnt think bringing shanagher to the wing is the answer. I know he is good in the air but he is a pure inside forward. I dont think he would be comfortable being out on the wing contesting puckouts - it would really take away the serious threat he does being when hes inside.

It seems a lot of people want to to see malone brought back in to win ball. But to be honest despite malones size tots o'connell is as good a ball winner as he is!!

I think we have to change keeper and try to play a smarter game. If we can use the ball better and give it into space for kelly rather than launching up in the air over his head then we'd be in a better positon.

If it will be waterford we'll be playing, it'll be a different game as we would expext them to have an extra man back - allowing us to go short from puckouts. Thus letting us work the ball more easily through the lines. Cork are no better in the air than us either actually so this shouldnt be as much of an issue for us whoever we're playing in the munster final.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 07/06/2017 15:05:00    1996510

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Podge supposedly out with a broken bone in his foot, that's what i heard.

O Brien in for POC with POC switched to wing, yeah agree this is probably better option defensively but don't think winning or losing will be decided by our full back line as Mc Inerney and Morey are absolutely class there. Heard Jack Browne and flanagan are doing very well in training too.

GK and winning the dirty ball will ruin us this year unless we have a puckout strategy. I hope we didn't show our full hand a against a limerick team who were woefully poor. I hope there was some mind games going on with management.

doyler5 (Limerick) - Posts: 44 - 08/06/2017 11:01:15    1996828

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There must be some mind games going on with yourself doyler! Judging by what county your account says your from and then you referring to clare as "us"

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1855 - 08/06/2017 16:28:11    1997008

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "I have been preaching for a long time about our problems in the air and physical stakes. I thought the option was to drop Galvin to bring in a more physical presence. After seeing Galvin the last day I was wrong but something needs to give. We must bring a more physically imposing player into our half forward line. The dogs on the street could see the picked half forward line would struggle to play the role of a traditional half forward line.

What about:

Fahy

Dillon McInerney Morey

POC Cleary Fitzgerald

Kelly Galvin

Shanagher Podge (if fit) Conlon

O Donnell McGrath Reidy

Reidy to take close frees, Kelly from deeper."
Congratulations Lohan. Was just too disgusted to come on here before now. As you say the dogs in the street knew about the Clare half forward line but luckily for you the Limerick management team didn't. If Cork beat Waterford the Clare have every chance of winning Munster if it's Waterford then it's hard to see Clare winning since Waterford can set up to counteract what the dogs in the street know.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 10/06/2017 08:30:29    1997499

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