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Clare Senior Hurlers 2016

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If Tony Kelly plays well then Clare do well. This fact has shone out over the past 5 years whether at U21 or senior. Opposition find him very difficult to shackle when he is given any space at all so he is double marked on most occasions. Even with double marking most teams can't get to grips with Kelly as he finds the couple of inches necessary to excel. However the Clare set up yesterday just played into Waterfords hand as it meant that kelly was completely crowded out every time he got on the ball as he was surrounded by not just about five or six Waterford players but also five or six Clare players thereby ensuring he had no chance of opening up.

This tactic of crowding it out through the middle and bunching the central area is backfiring on Clare and stymieing their own natural talents.

O'Donnell is also being seriously hampered by this style also by being expected to win high ball possession when surrounded by at least 3 defenders. He doesn't have the physique for this but if he got a quick low ball in space to run on to he can outsmart any defender. Colm Honan is not a wing forward - you need a nippy & crafty man in that position.

Short passing game also caught Clare out yesterday & turnovers responsible for a fair few Waterford scores.

Clare need to open up and play their own game as they have the natural talent and ability to do so and should fear nobody. Right now their formation suggests they fear everybody and their game is concentrated on keeping opposition scores down and they have no plan on how to score themselves. They play like Jim McGuinness' Donegal in 2011 and have done so in the last two years and will win nothing unless they evolve back into the side that was there in 2012 fresh out of U21 playing good hurling at breakneck speed.

dingle2 (Kerry) - Posts: 232 - 06/06/2016 19:03:59    1862408

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i agree that clare need to open up and let the shackles off.a few questions,is honan one of the best wing forwards in clare?where is conlan.s best position?is there room for colin ryan?apart from the all ireland final of 2013 when has o donnell produced a good performance?looking at the clare boys yesterday,have they to much heavy training done and not enough hurling?the first touch of a lot of them was way off.

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 966 - 06/06/2016 20:31:34    1862463

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "i agree that clare need to open up and let the shackles off.a few questions,is honan one of the best wing forwards in clare?where is conlan.s best position?is there room for colin ryan?apart from the all ireland final of 2013 when has o donnell produced a good performance?looking at the clare boys yesterday,have they to much heavy training done and not enough hurling?the first touch of a lot of them was way off."
To answer your questions - honan is not one of the best wing forwards in the county in my own opinion.
Conlons best position is wing forward but i wouldnt be against playing him full forward as he gives us that extra dimension when hes in there.
Colin ryan i think should be starting before honan. Although if we play a sweeper i dont think either of them will be in the team.
O'donnell missed most of 2014 then was excellent against kilkenny in the 2 league games last year and was very good against limerick in the chanpionship against cork last year limited ball came into him but he won almost everything that did come in. If we had given hin more ball that day we would have beaten cork..
I cant answer the last question though as i dont know what exactly clare do in training..

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1809 - 07/06/2016 09:27:29    1862596

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Dreadful disappointing performance from Clare on Sunday last Waterford fully atoned for the League Final (in which they were better team both days in the leagues imo)

Our team are being severally limited in how effective they can be by those systems they are forced to play in and quiet how the management get away with this is baffling to say the least Kelly spend so much time in the backs Mc Grath out at half forward down 7 points and only Podge in full forward line being double marked while all Clare forwards about the half way line

John Conlon was no way fit neither was David McInerney Aaron Cunningham brought in 3 weeks after doing ham string put at half back what does this say to the Clare Substitutes why was Peter Duggan not brought in to win a few dirty balls. I am sick of this talk that Shane O Donnell is not getting the proper ball he is in my opinion. I know of course his 3.03 in 2013 AI but you are as good as your last match.

Colm Galvin has not being anywhere as good since he went to America last year we will have to throw off the shackles we cannot hit a line ball any more have to try to link up in crowed areas A Gleeson had no such problems if he played in Clare he would not have shone like he did.

Our Championship record under Davy Fitzgerald is dreadful in my opinion. I watched the Intermediate match before the big event Donal Moloney had them flying the full forward line got something like 2.10 between them he played a conventional game trusted his players. TIME TO GO IN MY OWN OPINION

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 452 - 07/06/2016 10:19:24    1862625

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just a question to clare lads here sunday been clares first loss this year do ye think that this could be the cause of arguements between clares bk room team...when clare kept winning there was never going to be a word but now with a defeat and a poor performance id be thinking that it could cause a divide between clares coaching staff am i right including davy fitz that clare have 5 hurling coaches.

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 805 - 07/06/2016 18:27:14    1863056

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Replying To munsterchamps:  "just a question to clare lads here sunday been clares first loss this year do ye think that this could be the cause of arguements between clares bk room team...when clare kept winning there was never going to be a word but now with a defeat and a poor performance id be thinking that it could cause a divide between clares coaching staff am i right including davy fitz that clare have 5 hurling coaches."
obviously there will be discussions and arguments as there is in every backroom in the country. theres no point in them being there if they just agree with davy. i think its a little silly/premature to suggest that it will cause a divide in the backroom team though after 1 defeat. with regard to coaches theres cusack, kinnerk, aonghus o'brien and bulfin (goalkeeping coach). mulqueen and michael browne are selectors rather than coaches. although both are known for their coaching ability. so thats 6 plus davy - theres 7. surely between 7 of them they can figure out how to get this team hurling in an effective manner in attack and defense.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1809 - 07/06/2016 21:14:38    1863208

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Replying To hurlingexpert:  "obviously there will be discussions and arguments as there is in every backroom in the country. theres no point in them being there if they just agree with davy. i think its a little silly/premature to suggest that it will cause a divide in the backroom team though after 1 defeat. with regard to coaches theres cusack, kinnerk, aonghus o'brien and bulfin (goalkeeping coach). mulqueen and michael browne are selectors rather than coaches. although both are known for their coaching ability. so thats 6 plus davy - theres 7. surely between 7 of them they can figure out how to get this team hurling in an effective manner in attack and defense."
in fairness to the great man Davy,, he has turned Clare around, has them in the top 6...

hoppingball (Galway) - Posts: 963 - 07/06/2016 23:36:43    1863344

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A pathetic shambles of a performance. Everyone from mgmt to players needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Juvenile mistakes, inept goalkeeping and defending and brainless passing and shooting. A nightmare display. Tactics and systems can be argued over but unless you do the basics and have heart, fight and spirit you are doomed.

Our record over the last 4 seasons indicates we only have a 25% chance of getting to the 1/4 finals let alone further. A sad depressing fact.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 977 - 08/06/2016 11:21:01    1863483

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Well put Clareman the years are rolling by and the talent is being wasted or so it seems at least to me I have no problem with a particular system but if its not working you change it, the direct ball to full forward worked V Limerick/Tipp/Kilkenny wasen't used on Sunday how were such proud hurlers so lacking in heart/desire work rate were they over trained you have to ask why we need so many coaches and back room I really think that unless Clare get to semi final at least Davy will be under massive pressure to stand aside.

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 452 - 08/06/2016 11:30:57    1863487

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Difficult time for Clare hurling, I suggest it is obvious, from a talent perspective, that you posses all the ingredients required to reach the top and stay there for 4 maybe 5 years. Much chat above about players not performing - I believe that the lads are being asked to play a system devised to thwart the opposition rather than playing to Clare's strengths - performance against [albeit a weakened] Kilkenny being case and point

Magnificent facility in Caherlohan, coaches being imported left, right and centre - but if their drills are alien there is little prospect of achievement. Remember that no manager or coach ever scored or saved, it is down to what people are allowed to do inside the whitewash. I have tipped Clare to deliver in 2016 but unless there is a major reawakening the opportunity will be lost

Where are the U21 management team of Moloney and O'Connor? Where is Seadna Morey? These guys were the envy of every other county for years! Get back to basics and let lads hurl with a free spirit, can't remember the U21 using sweepers

TouchOfClass (Galway) - Posts: 730 - 08/06/2016 12:37:41    1863549

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clooney im of same opinion i think if clare go out of the championship tamely davy will be under pressure to go....league wins and form are well forgotten if the championship goes wrong. i just get the feeling that things could get worse for clare as this saying "too many cooks spoiled the broth" comes to mind when you keep winning everything seems rosy but after sunday i think that with so many coaches involved that they are bound to start disagreeing on game management. im sure they all have their opinions as to how clare should play.

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 805 - 08/06/2016 13:22:45    1863583

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Maloney is over the 21s and O Connor is now coaching Eire Og in Ennis. Both would jump at the chance to coach clare but we all know that wont happen for a while yet...

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 977 - 08/06/2016 13:23:14    1863586

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I think you are right Clooney on lots of fronts. There was so much wrong about the whole performance. Kelly played in his own half while Austin Gleeson had free reign to pick off 5 points from play from centre back. We had two small lads in midfield - too similar in my opinion and they were both playing too deep. We struggled to win primary possession and left Peter Duggan on the bench!

I'd love to hear Donal Ogs analysis of the puckout strategy. We needed three plays to get the ball into opposing half and it went out over sideline in process at times. There is no variety. We are too obvious. There needs to be a few long ones to winnable positions to draw out opposition and force them to mark up. They knew we'd go short so they let the corner backs have it and retreated to edge of scoring zone. Its the same in our game - zero variety. What is wrong with a 80 yarder from half back line to full forward line every now and again. We are way too obvious in what we do.

Would also question our freshness. Apparently did a mammoth few days at a training camp in Mayo a fortnight before the game. I wonder were they over trained? Were they burnt out? You can only go to the well so often. Conor Ryan injury is a classic example of possible over training. Lads looked to be second to ball for long periods. That said thought Oisin O Brien was excellent.

Subs a bit unusual - Cunningham coming in so deep - a workers role for a lad that had resigned himself to be out in press only days before the game. This was a needless risk when game was over. Davy Mac great to have back but again, if not fit to start, should he have played given he is so central to us.

If we had performed to ability and lost by a point or three, I'd take that but this was gross under performance in my opinion.

I always feared that Donal Og is not enough of a foil for Fitz - too like Fitz. These lads just need to be let relax, play to their strengths in their natural positions. The players are well good enough but the management are over thinking it. Paralysis by analysis.

Have management a case to answer? I think they do!

Moloney and O'Connor have got to be the next management and leave Kinnerk with them also and let them play like they did in the past. They would let them go out and hurl and express themselves like they did so often at underage.

mrbinman (Offaly) - Posts: 29 - 08/06/2016 21:28:58    1863892

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I am by no means saying davy should go or anything of the sort, but hypotethically if the manager position was available would people rather have daly or donal moloney (+ jerry o'connor)?

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1809 - 08/06/2016 21:54:04    1863914

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Hexpert it wouldn't surprise me if it was dalo with maloney and o connor as his selectors but i would like maloney myself, i think he just seems to have the knack for it, reminds me a lot of liam sheedy. He is always calm yet his teams play with fire, speed, skill and a real method to their play.

However there will be no change until 2017 at least, mark my words so we just have to row behind the team and hope for the best.

On the game, another thing that i feel needs to be said is that if Clare keep persisting with the shorts puck puck outs due to our lack of ball winners ( which i believe can be corrected if proper selection is followed) then the opposition will simply push up on the lads more comfortable in possession ie dillon, POC...and you end up with O Brien and Fitz on the ball for example. Now dont get me wrong these lads are good players and have added some ballast to our defence but they are not ball players, imagine if they were replaced by Morey and DAvy Mac, harder then for opposition to counter act...it is just an observation..i think david fitzgerald should be tried at 12, he has played there a good bit for club and clare underage at times, cody wouldnt waste a second being experimental, we never did it once in the league, instead we have wing backs sprinting up for puck outs, which might work once or twice, but you are basically telling the opposition that you dont back your half forwards to win the ball.

Also, as Donal O Grady rightly pointed out, if you play 5 across half back line liek waterford do, teams have to go long against themand we just simply didnt do that cos we only had conlon, surely duggan or shanagher should hae been an option after 50/55 mins...breaking bal for likes of o donnell and tots...hurling can be very simple at times.

things happen too slow with this mgmt team and perhaps as munsterchamps says, there are 2 many voices now. a mgmt team should be 4 maximum, we currently have 7.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 977 - 09/06/2016 09:52:05    1864019

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Draw later this morning. I am really eager for them to get out a prove themselves. If they are not hungry after the last day then we might as well throw in the towel. Hoping we get Dublin.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 1980 - 20/06/2016 08:24:25    1869279

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Clare against Laois.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 1980 - 20/06/2016 08:41:18    1869285

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Its one of those games that is damned if you do and damned if you dont.

If Clare lose all hell will break out. Win by less than 8 and they will be criticised. Win by more than 8 and people will say sure its only Laois.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 1980 - 20/06/2016 08:54:43    1869289

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its a pity we didnt get dublin or wexford away, a real test. this team has to produce when the heat is on and that hasnt happened in the championship since September 2013. With all due respect to Laois and i have good time for them as a hurling county, but clare need to lay down a marker.

Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 977 - 20/06/2016 09:46:48    1869333

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I know a lot of people are a little disappointed that we got laois rather than a "bigger" test. But to look at this from a positive point of view, the teams confidence is probably at a real low after the disaster against waterford, so a win (hopefully a big 1) will slowly build us up again. Similarly to 3 years ago we got laois in the first qualifier and built momentum, against wexford, galway etc.. Could get wexford again in the next game then potentially this time around..

The farce with the laois, armagh football thing means we avoid the dual player clash for podge collins but the second round qualifier game is now on the same weekend as the football qualifier will be so there will be some decisions to be made for podge in the coming weeks..

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1809 - 22/06/2016 13:20:50    1870725

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