Carlow Forum

Tier 2

(Oldest Posts First)

So seeing as we are one of the counties effected by it what are posters opinions on the new structure is it meerly Tommy Murphy expanded or do you think this will be a positive step forward.

I have doubts myself, firstly 8 of the 16 counties who are in it voted against it which asks major questions over how viable this competition will be if half the counties are against the idea. Would an opt in policy rather than enforcing this on unwilling participants not have been a better idea. Start off with the 8 that want it and expand if counties wish to enter it, I'm not against the basic idea of tiers but apathy killed the Tommy Murphy and I can see the same happening here. The gap from 1-16 Is probably far greater than 17-33 yet they gloss over that.

Turlough O'Brien wrote a fine piece on it here.
https://rotharroutes.com/2019/10/20/the-trail-of-tiers/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1270 - 22/10/2019 13:24:53    2244945

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I think we ve to give it a go in a positive way rather than doom it from the start. We are miles off a lot of teams, maybe not 1 to 16 but a cut off needed to be drawn and our/other counties form over a good many years would indicate that we re a tier 2 team. The tiers have worked for our hurlers in allowing them to be successful at their level and allowing them to build and consolidate then when facing better opposition. We talk about not wanting moral victories anymore yet we ll take a lad drawing out our name and a big guns one out of a drum at 8 30 of a Friday morning in October on radio 1 and think we re progressing. While we had a few good days, bar the kildare game, we ultimately lost all the other key games (3 v laois in one year, lge and champ I know). I don't buy this media and promotion thing. While it is great to get recognition it shouldn't hinder progress. We were the only liam McCarthy team not to get a live game this year but we still were well supported and hurled well. Weaker counties losing players to the states has also been mooted. This has been happening after first rounds and leagues for years already!
I think we have to have change and whilst this might not be the best, at least it's a start.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 22/10/2019 18:18:34    2245024

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Replying To old yellar:  "I think we ve to give it a go in a positive way rather than doom it from the start. We are miles off a lot of teams, maybe not 1 to 16 but a cut off needed to be drawn and our/other counties form over a good many years would indicate that we re a tier 2 team. The tiers have worked for our hurlers in allowing them to be successful at their level and allowing them to build and consolidate then when facing better opposition. We talk about not wanting moral victories anymore yet we ll take a lad drawing out our name and a big guns one out of a drum at 8 30 of a Friday morning in October on radio 1 and think we re progressing. While we had a few good days, bar the kildare game, we ultimately lost all the other key games (3 v laois in one year, lge and champ I know). I don't buy this media and promotion thing. While it is great to get recognition it shouldn't hinder progress. We were the only liam McCarthy team not to get a live game this year but we still were well supported and hurled well. Weaker counties losing players to the states has also been mooted. This has been happening after first rounds and leagues for years already!
I think we have to have change and whilst this might not be the best, at least it's a start."
I agree. We should approach this new format with positivity. This competition could give the footballers something to build some momentum and possibly get into tier 1. The hurlers built up serious momentum in the Christy Ring and Joe McDonagh competitions. While they didn't win a game at Liam McCarthy level they did hurl well and I'm sure they will be approaching the winter with the hunger to get back to that level.
This new format will give us more meaningful games than the current format and there might actually be more lads out there who might go into the county set up as there is a chance of us winning something. While beating Kildare in Tullamore was magical, watching the hurlers walk up the Hogan Stand winning the McDonagh Cup that year was equally magical. Watching a Carlow team winning in Croke Park. Now that's what I want to see.

GAA_WayOfLife (Carlow) - Posts: 60 - 22/10/2019 19:25:17    2245041

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Grand in theory but theres 16 teams so getting close to a final might be very difficult for some counties. No gurantee of success ever. What then? I dont think comparing it to hurling is logical but in all the years of tiered hurling who has become stronger than their traditional standing?

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 22/10/2019 19:46:50    2245044

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Replying To Bimb:  "Grand in theory but theres 16 teams so getting close to a final might be very difficult for some counties. No gurantee of success ever. What then? I dont think comparing it to hurling is logical but in all the years of tiered hurling who has become stronger than their traditional standing?"
Well if we cant get close to a final with only the 16 bottom teams in it, what chance do we have with the existing system??
We currently have no guarantee of success now. Realistically we have none. So why continue the existing system??
Hurling tiers have lifted the standard in our own county certainly.

I think we need a change and acknowledge that while this might not be what we exactly want in terms of structure, what we have isn't working for a lot of lower division teams as the results clearly show over the last number of years.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 22/10/2019 22:40:42    2245112

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Replying To Bimb:  "Grand in theory but theres 16 teams so getting close to a final might be very difficult for some counties. No gurantee of success ever. What then? I dont think comparing it to hurling is logical but in all the years of tiered hurling who has become stronger than their traditional standing?"
That's a fair point after roughly 20 years of tiered hurling in one form or another not one weaker county has made a breakthrough in fact it could be argued some have gone backwards Antrim down and offaly spring to mind. I note to that the Joe macdonagh all stars have been cancelled this year and despite it been a very competitive hurling championship it gets little or no media coverage. That doesn't make me very positive about a tier two football championship.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1270 - 23/10/2019 08:40:08    2245138

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In fairness what is there to be positive about? This has been done time and time again and has failed each time. Why will this be any different? Its hard to understand how they can think this will work using practically the same tommy murphy format

Hometown45 (Carlow) - Posts: 162 - 23/10/2019 10:23:48    2245161

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Replying To old yellar:  "Well if we cant get close to a final with only the 16 bottom teams in it, what chance do we have with the existing system??
We currently have no guarantee of success now. Realistically we have none. So why continue the existing system??
Hurling tiers have lifted the standard in our own county certainly.

I think we need a change and acknowledge that while this might not be what we exactly want in terms of structure, what we have isn't working for a lot of lower division teams as the results clearly show over the last number of years."
Why not wait till the fixtures review committe do there work? are we not worth including? mabey a champions league style group which determines tiers.......my point is why did counties vote for something that does nt improve their peospects?

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 23/10/2019 11:11:41    2245177

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Replying To old yellar:  "Well if we cant get close to a final with only the 16 bottom teams in it, what chance do we have with the existing system??
We currently have no guarantee of success now. Realistically we have none. So why continue the existing system??
Hurling tiers have lifted the standard in our own county certainly.

I think we need a change and acknowledge that while this might not be what we exactly want in terms of structure, what we have isn't working for a lot of lower division teams as the results clearly show over the last number of years."
Also, is club hurling in carlow not in a perilous position at the moment? less competitive than ever and clubs not delivering results in leinster

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 23/10/2019 11:13:39    2245178

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For a tier two championship to work the provincials need to be scrapped. The only provincial championship work talking about in Ulster. The tier 2 format introduced for 2020 is absolutely ridiculous.

hurlingguru (Carlow) - Posts: 1813 - 23/10/2019 12:08:24    2245189

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Replying To Bimb:  "Also, is club hurling in carlow not in a perilous position at the moment? less competitive than ever and clubs not delivering results in leinster"
Club hurling difficulties have nothing got to do with the tiered hurling. Internal issues. Some v good games between the 4 remaining senior teams this year and nothing much between them. Clubs not delivering results in leinster? We never really had a massively successful period at anytime bar when mlr made a run in inter and senior and Erin's own in junior. Isolated years.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 23/10/2019 12:53:57    2245206

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Replying To Bimb:  "Why not wait till the fixtures review committe do there work? are we not worth including? mabey a champions league style group which determines tiers.......my point is why did counties vote for something that does nt improve their peospects?"
Not sure on the fixtures committee thing tbh. Didn't make a lot of sense to me. But the crazy thing currently is that 30/40 elite players county schedules are dictating when hundreds or thousands of ordinary club players get to play games (county leagues excluded though not always in all counties). Crazy.
Champions league style - if you seed them, are you really doing anything for say the weaker 2/3 in the group? A hammering is really the only end result or the stronger team plays half a team which in itself is a reflection of what they think of the game/other county. I d say stronger counties had 2 reasons to vote for it - apathy and maybe just wanting to play against better teams on a constant basis (just an opinion). Maybe the weaker counties that did just want change and while this might not be the best solution, it might be the start of the tweaking and tiered/secondary comps will eventually get the best format. We just cant keep going the way we are I think anyhow.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 23/10/2019 13:04:18    2245210

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Replying To old yellar:  "Club hurling difficulties have nothing got to do with the tiered hurling. Internal issues. Some v good games between the 4 remaining senior teams this year and nothing much between them. Clubs not delivering results in leinster? We never really had a massively successful period at anytime bar when mlr made a run in inter and senior and Erin's own in junior. Isolated years."
Agree. just saying the tiered system has nt advanced carlow club hurling as suggested

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 23/10/2019 14:30:07    2245237

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "That's a fair point after roughly 20 years of tiered hurling in one form or another not one weaker county has made a breakthrough in fact it could be argued some have gone backwards Antrim down and offaly spring to mind. I note to that the Joe macdonagh all stars have been cancelled this year and despite it been a very competitive hurling championship it gets little or no media coverage. That doesn't make me very positive about a tier two football championship."
Gone backward? Antrim are a small county like our own and the number of clubs can limit progress. I d fancy them to be back there or there abours this year again in jmcd. Offaly, well sure they have hurled all of their time in the v top tier bar last year. So I cant see your point about tiered hurling having an effect on them! I worked up there for 12 years and trust me, their decline has nothing got to do with tiered hurling. Our own lads have made progress in my eyes. I might have different criteria than you. Is yours to win a comp etc? We certainly have progressd from needing a fluke goal v mayo in a Christy ring semi to help us win it (and a late pt), to hurling galway in salt hill and giving them socks of it. This has happened us in 11 years of tiered hurling. I d deem that progress.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 23/10/2019 17:23:38    2245293

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Replying To Bimb:  "Agree. just saying the tiered system has nt advanced carlow club hurling as suggested"
Who suggested that?

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 23/10/2019 17:24:58    2245295

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Replying To old yellar:  "Who suggested that?"
you did

"Hurling tiers have lifted the standard in our own county certainly"

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 23/10/2019 17:58:30    2245309

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Replying To Bimb:  "you did

"Hurling tiers have lifted the standard in our own county certainly""
Ah sorry. Meant of! Grammar error!

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2601 - 23/10/2019 18:25:59    2245312

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Replying To old yellar:  "Ah sorry. Meant of! Grammar error!"
...some great days alright

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 23/10/2019 19:16:31    2245316

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