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@tirawleybaron - it's absolutely laughable that you accuse me of knowing little about rural Ireland considering I'm in my early 50s and have spent about 45 of those years living in the countryside. I grew up on a farm in the foothills of a mountain, and apart from my college club while I was a student and then a club in Sligo while I worked there for two years after graduating, the only clubs I've ever been involved with have been rural clubs - one where I grew up, and the other in the place where I've settled after marriage.
Anyway, I could write a long, long post to show the many ways you've the wrong idea about things. But instead I'll just thank you for further proof of my statement "it's easy to make excuses".
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3781 - 23/06/2026 17:22:34
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Replying To tirawleybaron: " Replying To Pikeman96: "<b>@tirawleybaron -</b> in relation to this line you wrote:
<i>In most Connacht and ulster rural clubs, they are lucky to be able to field teams. Having dual clubs is just not possible in that environment.</i>
Ah, come on now. To use an internet phrase that actually annoys me but which seems appropriate here: tell me you know little about it without actually telling me you know little about it. And by the way, you've just provided proof of my earlier statement of "easy to find excuses".
Whether you have 10 children in a given age group, or 50, there's no issue in getting them to use hurls and sliotars for the odd training session instead of throwing a few footballs to them.
There are many rural clubs here in Wexford that struggle for numbers too. But that doesn't stop them providing both hurling and football to their members.
You seem to believe that having a dual club would mean having one panel of say 18 to 20 footballers, and a separate panel of 18 to 20 hurlers at that age?????"</div>How little you seem to know about actual rural Ireland,
Most of Wexford can be covered in 30min driving - its a county with a lot of urban areas with big numbers of kids - see the GAA demographic study if you don't believe me.
In rural clubs in the midlands, north and west you are looking at 2-3 volunteers to take on any age group in GAA.
of those volunteers - do you actually thing you will be able to get them to coach both hurling and football teams - 4 nights a week + matches from U14 upwards? No one is going to do that.
If you have a magic solution to get volunteer coaches in Wexford - lets hear it - around here its the same few people volunteering for every sport.
To be a hurling coach in rural Mayo - you are likely already coaching football and soccer now in summer, adding hurling is another night on to that. You could possible do 3 up to U10 as its 3 nights combined - go up to U12 - its 6 times a week commitment - go up to U14 and each sport requires 2 nights a week and weekends.
The kids cant turn out that often if they have homework or any non sport hobby.
once coach has to skip training - safeguarding prevents you having a training session with less than 2 coaches.
Wexford has soccer in winter - so not as much demand on volunteers during summer months.
The point is Hurling needs to change its model to grow.
Having a sport that requires a panel of 20 to field a team at all - in an area where there is little or no hurling - it will never grow.
Having a 7 a side version - would increase the chances of fielding a team. Rural, amalgamated clubs can barely get 15 for football - not a hope of ever getting 13/15 for a hurling match.
The GAA needs to think differently about hurling if they want it to grow. A model that works in Kilkenny/Cork/ Limerick wont work in other places." Wexford is bigger than you think. We are fairly central in the county, but Fethard is a 40 minute drive from my house, Rosslare is a half hour away in a different direction, Blackwater is 40 minutes, Kilanerin is an hours drive. Fethard GAA to Castletown GAA would take an hour and 20 minutes. Some of our clubs u14 lads are only finishing up with soccer on Saturday coming. Some of our adult lads only finished up 2 weeks ago. Kennedy Cup was only week before last. We have a lad at the Academy at Wexford FC and he will be playing soccer all summer. They will all be back playing soccer in August. We have 11 adult soccer Leagues here in Wexford, and hundreds of underage soccer teams, mainly concentrated in the urban areas, but also covering most rural areas also. As regards training most of our teams only have 3 to 4 mentors including the manager, we train twice a week and have a game a week, sometimes an extra challenge game also. Thats between hurling and football. The motion put forward by the demographics people at Congress this year allowing smaller sides down to 11 aside was passed. Our neighbouring parish has only 90 children, altogether boys and girls, in its National School, and still fields 2 adult teams in Football, and 2 in Hurling. Anything is possible if you arent a quitter.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20067 - 23/06/2026 17:44:07
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@tirawleybaron - it's absolutely laughable that you accuse me of knowing little about rural Ireland considering I'm in my early 50s and have spent about 45 of those years living in the countryside. I grew up on a farm in the foothills of a mountain, and apart from my college club while I was a student and then a club in Sligo while I worked there for two years after graduating, the only clubs I've ever been involved with have been rural clubs - one where I grew up, and the other in the place where I've settled after marriage.
Anyway, I could write a long, long post to show the many ways you've the wrong idea about things. But instead I'll just thank you for further proof of my statement "it's easy to make excuses"." for the ways you claim it can be done and use Wexford as the example - Wexford are the prime example of a county stuck between two stools. Not challenging for Leinster titles in either code, at any age grade. Clubs that don't challenge either. Another reason why a lot of counties don't try to become dual counties.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1931 - 24/06/2026 12:36:31
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "for the ways you claim it can be done and use Wexford as the example - Wexford are the prime example of a county stuck between two stools. Not challenging for Leinster titles in either code, at any age grade. Clubs that don't challenge either. Another reason why a lot of counties don't try to become dual counties." Well, you've changed your tune completely.
Now you're looking for reasons why clubs and counties promoting and developing both codes roughly equally shouldn't be done, as opposed to why it can't be done.
So, when push comes to shove - do you actually want more resources and effort in promoting and developing hurling in places like Mayo after all, or are you fearful too that it would impact too much on football?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3781 - 24/06/2026 13:55:22
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "for the ways you claim it can be done and use Wexford as the example - Wexford are the prime example of a county stuck between two stools. Not challenging for Leinster titles in either code, at any age grade. Clubs that don't challenge either. Another reason why a lot of counties don't try to become dual counties." Its not true that we arent challenging for Leinster titles at any level. The current Leinster Senior hurling club champions are from Wexford.
And the current Leinster Junior club hurling champions.
This year our county minor hurlers had one bad game this year, against Galway, should have beaten Cork and beat Kilkenny.
And it took Galway to score a tough last gasp 65 from way out on the sideline to bring our Leinster u20 hurling SF to extra time. Id of been reasonably confident of beating Kilkenny in Wexford Park in the final had we beaten Galway that day. Kilkenny needed a last gasp free to snatch a draw with us in Nowlan Park.
Just on your last paragraph, the GAA is the GAA, not the GFA or GHA. And if winning is more important than being true to the ethos of the GAA with some people then maybe they should just pick some other minority sport that they might find even easier to win at.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20067 - 24/06/2026 14:29:23
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "for the ways you claim it can be done and use Wexford as the example - Wexford are the prime example of a county stuck between two stools. Not challenging for Leinster titles in either code, at any age grade. Clubs that don't challenge either. Another reason why a lot of counties don't try to become dual counties." St Martins of Wexford are the reigning Leinster club hurling champions!
bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 599 - 24/06/2026 15:49:33
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Replying To Viking66: "Its not true that we arent challenging for Leinster titles at any level. The current Leinster Senior hurling club champions are from Wexford.
And the current Leinster Junior club hurling champions.
This year our county minor hurlers had one bad game this year, against Galway, should have beaten Cork and beat Kilkenny.
And it took Galway to score a tough last gasp 65 from way out on the sideline to bring our Leinster u20 hurling SF to extra time. Id of been reasonably confident of beating Kilkenny in Wexford Park in the final had we beaten Galway that day. Kilkenny needed a last gasp free to snatch a draw with us in Nowlan Park.
Just on your last paragraph, the GAA is the GAA, not the GFA or GHA. And if winning is more important than being true to the ethos of the GAA with some people then maybe they should just pick some other minority sport that they might find even easier to win at." Wexford have won one Leinster minor hurling title since 1985. They've won 2 Leinster senior hurling titles since 1997. In fairness they've have won 5 Leinster u20/21 titles since 1997. They've won 3 Leinster Senior club hurling titles since 1997. They haven't won a national title at any of those levels since the senior All Ireland win in 1996. The last minor title was won in 1968. The last u20/21 All Ireland was won in 1965. The last club All Ireland was won in 1989 and the last National Hurling League title came in 1973. Not good.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6205 - 24/06/2026 19:31:46
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A minor tweak might improve things
Right now we have too few teams, and too many of the good teams gone too early, and imbalance in provinces
we also have situation where third placed team might actually be better off than losing provincial finalists as they get a break
So have 3rd and 4th placed teams play-off for AI series
This year you would have
Offaly v Waterford in Tullamore
Clare v Kilkenny in Ennis
Attractive fixtures both of them and no dead rubbers in Munster. Played day before the Provincial finals
For arguments sake Waterford and Clare win and now you have two QFs with
Dublin v Clare in Parnell Park, and
Cork v Waterford in Pairc u chaoimh
(You also need home advantage for top seeds as an incentive and plus right now the QFs are non events often in empty stadia so need a boost
Semis. An still be Croke Park
You potentially lose some of the blood and thunder in Munster but something needs to change; QFs right now are a non event, and teams like say Tipp who start slow are still alive last day of round robin
Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 273 - 25/06/2026 04:34:15
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Replying To Greengrass: "Wexford have won one Leinster minor hurling title since 1985. They've won 2 Leinster senior hurling titles since 1997. In fairness they've have won 5 Leinster u20/21 titles since 1997. They've won 3 Leinster Senior club hurling titles since 1997. They haven't won a national title at any of those levels since the senior All Ireland win in 1996. The last minor title was won in 1968. The last u20/21 All Ireland was won in 1965. The last club All Ireland was won in 1989 and the last National Hurling League title came in 1973. Not good." Think he was talking about right now? And he specifically said competitive rather than winning outright?
The only Wexford team that wasnt competitive in the last year in hurling was the Senior intercounty hurlers, from u14 upwards and including our clubs.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20067 - 25/06/2026 07:31:28
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Replying To Yadse: "A minor tweak might improve things
Right now we have too few teams, and too many of the good teams gone too early, and imbalance in provinces
we also have situation where third placed team might actually be better off than losing provincial finalists as they get a break
So have 3rd and 4th placed teams play-off for AI series
This year you would have
Offaly v Waterford in Tullamore
Clare v Kilkenny in Ennis
Attractive fixtures both of them and no dead rubbers in Munster. Played day before the Provincial finals
For arguments sake Waterford and Clare win and now you have two QFs with
Dublin v Clare in Parnell Park, and
Cork v Waterford in Pairc u chaoimh
(You also need home advantage for top seeds as an incentive and plus right now the QFs are non events often in empty stadia so need a boost
Semis. An still be Croke Park
You potentially lose some of the blood and thunder in Munster but something needs to change; QFs right now are a non event, and teams like say Tipp who start slow are still alive last day of round robin" Kevin O'Donovan hinted at that for a change yesterday
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20067 - 25/06/2026 09:05:09
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It's funny that the lower hurling leagues had 2nd v 3rd semi finals for a few years and it is only next year that that is coming into the Joe Mac. The league was being more championship than the championship!
With the current groups of 5 or 6, there is little scope for much more knockout hurling. It is only viable really for the top 3 to enter the knockout stages. If the Joe Mac semi final is a relative success, hopefully it'll extend to the lower tiers.
It is bizarre that New York parachute into semi finals without at least playing away to the side that earned 2nd place after 5 group games. Even more bizarre that counties aren't pushing a motion for the 2nd place to have home game. A reflection of the scant attention those counties pay to hurling anyway.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9882 - 25/06/2026 09:26:55
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Replying To Yadse: "A minor tweak might improve things
Right now we have too few teams, and too many of the good teams gone too early, and imbalance in provinces
we also have situation where third placed team might actually be better off than losing provincial finalists as they get a break
So have 3rd and 4th placed teams play-off for AI series
This year you would have
Offaly v Waterford in Tullamore
Clare v Kilkenny in Ennis
Attractive fixtures both of them and no dead rubbers in Munster. Played day before the Provincial finals
For arguments sake Waterford and Clare win and now you have two QFs with
Dublin v Clare in Parnell Park, and
Cork v Waterford in Pairc u chaoimh
(You also need home advantage for top seeds as an incentive and plus right now the QFs are non events often in empty stadia so need a boost
Semis. An still be Croke Park
You potentially lose some of the blood and thunder in Munster but something needs to change; QFs right now are a non event, and teams like say Tipp who start slow are still alive last day of round robin" 4 out of 5 or 6 getting out of the groups is madness but with the push for more high profile games, I think there will be a push to get it through.
Step 1: preliminary quarter finals against Joe Mac teams have been scrapped.
Step 2: add preliminary quarter finals between 3rd v 4th.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9882 - 25/06/2026 11:31:58
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Replying To Yadse: "A minor tweak might improve things
Right now we have too few teams, and too many of the good teams gone too early, and imbalance in provinces
we also have situation where third placed team might actually be better off than losing provincial finalists as they get a break
So have 3rd and 4th placed teams play-off for AI series
This year you would have
Offaly v Waterford in Tullamore
Clare v Kilkenny in Ennis
Attractive fixtures both of them and no dead rubbers in Munster. Played day before the Provincial finals
For arguments sake Waterford and Clare win and now you have two QFs with
Dublin v Clare in Parnell Park, and
Cork v Waterford in Pairc u chaoimh
(You also need home advantage for top seeds as an incentive and plus right now the QFs are non events often in empty stadia so need a boost
Semis. An still be Croke Park
You potentially lose some of the blood and thunder in Munster but something needs to change; QFs right now are a non event, and teams like say Tipp who start slow are still alive last day of round robin" Hasn't the munster chairman ruled that out? I think he has.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 608 - 25/06/2026 11:38:24
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Hasn't the munster chairman ruled that out? I think he has." That sort of change wouldn't be up to the Munster Chairman or the Munster Council, though. Structure of the All-Ireland Championship (i.e. Liam McCarthy Cup) is set out in Part 1 of the overall Rule Book. Means change would be at Congress, where all counties and overseas delegations have a vote.
Munster could vote against it all right, but they can't rule it out.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3781 - 25/06/2026 11:49:42
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Replying To legendzxix: "4 out of 5 or 6 getting out of the groups is madness but with the push for more high profile games, I think there will be a push to get it through.
Step 1: preliminary quarter finals against Joe Mac teams have been scrapped.
Step 2: add preliminary quarter finals between 3rd v 4th." Either that or some sort of All Ireland Round Robin, or something like Football has this year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20067 - 25/06/2026 12:25:38
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Replying To Pikeman96: "That sort of change wouldn't be up to the Munster Chairman or the Munster Council, though. Structure of the All-Ireland Championship (i.e. Liam McCarthy Cup) is set out in Part 1 of the overall Rule Book. Means change would be at Congress, where all counties and overseas delegations have a vote.
Munster could vote against it all right, but they can't rule it out." It feels inevitable that the change will come. Just a matter of when, despite misgivings about 4th placed teams going through.
Provincial finals will be like a Round 2A - with winners direct to semi finals. The All Ireland preliminary quarter finals between 3rd v 4th will be like Round 2B - with the winners off to the quarter finals. There surely should be very little scope for complaining after that but it won't stop some!!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9882 - 25/06/2026 13:01:30
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Replying To Pikeman96: "That sort of change wouldn't be up to the Munster Chairman or the Munster Council, though. Structure of the All-Ireland Championship (i.e. Liam McCarthy Cup) is set out in Part 1 of the overall Rule Book. Means change would be at Congress, where all counties and overseas delegations have a vote.
Munster could vote against it all right, but they can't rule it out." Maybe so but he made Munster Councils position very clear on that.
I dont see how it helps anything either. It gives 2 teams an extra game on the same weekend as the provincial finals if I read it right. Im not sure what good that does.
The reality is that we have a quality issue atm. No tweaking or change to the system will change that. Counties need to improve their standards from within. Its not up to Cork or Limerick etc to fix Wexfords or Dublins problems.
Downgrading the provincial championships doesnt achieve anything. It just makes some folk feel better about themselves.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 608 - 25/06/2026 13:11:22
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Maybe so but he made Munster Councils position very clear on that.
I dont see how it helps anything either. It gives 2 teams an extra game on the same weekend as the provincial finals if I read it right. Im not sure what good that does.
The reality is that we have a quality issue atm. No tweaking or change to the system will change that. Counties need to improve their standards from within. Its not up to Cork or Limerick etc to fix Wexfords or Dublins problems.
Downgrading the provincial championships doesnt achieve anything. It just makes some folk feel better about themselves." I'm neither for nor against the idea myself, and am unaware of where exactly the Munster Chairman is on record about it, but is it not a little odd that they'd be so opposed to it?
If it really is the case that 4th in Munster is generally stronger than 3rd in Leinster (would have been Tipperary v Offaly this year), then it follows that 3rd in Munster would be stronger than 4th in Leinster too. And so, chances are you'd have four Munster teams through to All-Ireland quarter-finals or beyond, instead of just three.
I'd have thought Munster would be in favour of something that could very well see more of their teams through to the latter stages of the championship. Unless of course they're trying to do something nice for the rest of us after all! :)
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3781 - 25/06/2026 14:08:32
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "Maybe so but he made Munster Councils position very clear on that.
I dont see how it helps anything either. It gives 2 teams an extra game on the same weekend as the provincial finals if I read it right. Im not sure what good that does.
The reality is that we have a quality issue atm. No tweaking or change to the system will change that. Counties need to improve their standards from within. Its not up to Cork or Limerick etc to fix Wexfords or Dublins problems.
Downgrading the provincial championships doesnt achieve anything. It just makes some folk feel better about themselves." I know all the different threads arent helping, but you seem to be confusing 2 different issues.
Competitiveness in the other counties except Cork and Limerick is up to those counties to sort out.
Promoting and growing the game of hurling in general is the issue that having more than 7 top tier hurling games left in the latter two thirds of the intercounty Championship season might help with.
When you think that the intercounty championship hurling season runs from April to July its madness that there are only 7 top tier games left after the first month and a bit. And only 3 after schools finish up for the summer.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20067 - 25/06/2026 14:23:20
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Who put the Munster Council in charge of hurling?
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 2113 - 25/06/2026 14:24:03
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