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Replying To Viking66: "Wouldn't the North Leinster team be pretty much the Westmeath team? Maybe the odd 1 or 2 from Louth and Longford?" Bit like how Connacht teams in the Railway Cup used to be 14 from Galway and then Dave Sinnott of Mayo (and originally from Wexford) in goal.
You're forgetting Meath. But overall, it'd be another flaw in the Mayo man's plan. "North Leinster" would probably be 75 to 80% Westmeath, 15 to 20% Meath, and maybe the odd one or two from Louth and Longford. Hard to see what it would do for hurling in those two counties.
Similarly with "Team Ulster". If you were picking it this year, how many from the likes of Cavan, Monaghan or Fermanagh would be in the squad?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3765 - 11/06/2026 11:29:08
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Replying To WanPintWin: "True. Hurling is already tiered though, as the levels are much lower in some counties, many with only a handful of hurling clubs. The winners of some county championships go into the All-Ireland intermediate and junior championships.
However, football is much more difficult to tier, as there are and have been strong clubs from many counties, including those considered weaker at intercounty level." True too. Clubs from weaker counties in Football have definitely produced more exceptional teams than has been the case in hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20000 - 11/06/2026 12:25:45
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Bit like how Connacht teams in the Railway Cup used to be 14 from Galway and then Dave Sinnott of Mayo (and originally from Wexford) in goal.
You're forgetting Meath. But overall, it'd be another flaw in the Mayo man's plan. "North Leinster" would probably be 75 to 80% Westmeath, 15 to 20% Meath, and maybe the odd one or two from Louth and Longford. Hard to see what it would do for hurling in those two counties.
Similarly with "Team Ulster". If you were picking it this year, how many from the likes of Cavan, Monaghan or Fermanagh would be in the squad?" Sorry I wasnt meaning any disrespect to Meath, its just Id think of them as mid Leinster as opposed to North Leinster!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20000 - 11/06/2026 12:39:06
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Replying To Viking66: "Sorry I wasnt meaning any disrespect to Meath, its just Id think of them as mid Leinster as opposed to North Leinster!" Well, it's more North than South. But anyway - how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?? :D
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3765 - 11/06/2026 13:01:34
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The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1890 - 11/06/2026 13:11:51
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly." I suppose it does border Cavan up around Virginia ok! Just most Meath people I know live on the Kildare border.
And hurling was played in most of the counties where it is strong long before cricket was a big thing. Kilkenny the most obvious exception to that.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20000 - 11/06/2026 14:03:47
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly." I suppose it does border Cavan up around Virginia ok! Just most Meath people I know live on the Kildare border.
And hurling was played in most of the counties where it is strong long before cricket was a big thing. Kilkenny the most obvious exception to that.
I agree with the rest of your post though.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20000 - 11/06/2026 14:04:46
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The status quo hasn't improved a single county for more than a one of generation of players.
Do what you've always done and get what you always got.
The idea of amalgamated teams would be similar to the Kerry club football.
Players play for their own county and then move to the amalgamated region for senior championship.
Munster championship, Leinster championship, regional championship.
Regional winners play Munster and & Leinster champs in All Ireland q finals - or not, just their own championship until they become stronger.
Could be started at underage fairly easily.
In Connacht, Galway clubs wouldn't hurl against a Mayo club in an underage friendly if you paid them - so any good hurlers in the rest of Connacht are excluded from a higher standard of play. Picking the best of Connacht to have a hop of Galway from U14 upwards might keep good hurlers (who just go to play football) playing a bit longer, if there is hope for bigger days.
The current system of keeping weak counties playing each other just keeps them weak.
Hurling wont ever grow unless it becomes more inclusive to those that want to play it outside of the former Cricket strongholds it started in.
Also, Meath broders Ulster, if thats not North Leinster I dont know what North is clearly." So many holes in the plan that it's hard to know where to start in dissecting it.
So, all I'll say is to take your second line there ("Do what you've always done and get what you always got."), and turn it inwards.
If a county is serious about improving its lot in hurling, then is it not first up to that county to change how it does things itself, rather than tinkering with championship structures and artificial amalgamations in the hope that somebody else can do it for them?
As I've said before in relation to this sort of thing - horse, water, and drink. You could throw all the hurling resources in the world at such counties, and make all the changes in the world to try improve them, but if they don't have a genuine will themselves to take advantage of them, then nothing will change anyway.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3765 - 11/06/2026 14:40:58
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How about this:
As 'growing the game' is the goal, my preference is "Option Two", but I start with "Option One" for ease of presentation.
All teams play mixed-province, inter-group ties, encompassing all Prov 'KO ties', prior to AIC KO:
TWO OPTIONS
OPTION ONE
- Munster KO 5 & Leinster KO 5
- AIC with two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Groups 'formed', not drawn
- Muns QF loser to Group A, winner to B
- SF opponent of Muns QF winner to A
- Muns Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Muns SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Muns trio in A & pair in B
- Lein QF winner to Group A, loser to B
- SF opponent of Lein QF winner to B
- Lein Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Lein SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Lein pair in A & trio in B
- Merge to form two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Each team completes a 5-game inter-group
schedule, including all their Prov KO ties (1-3)
- Prov KO is 'winner on the day' (1 point each, if
drawn at full time)
- Top 6 advance to AIC KO from a combined 10-
team table
- Top 2 of 6 earn QF byes (not necessarily Prov
Champs)
- AIC KO targets 'intra-group ties' to avoid
repeat pairings
- QFs could be 3v6 & 4v5 (avoid repeat pairings,
if possible)
SFs could have 'seed 1 v lowest QF seed winner'
SCHEDULE:
- Apr 18/19: Muns QF & Lein QF
- Apr 25/26: 4 Prov SFs & 1 'Cross-Prov' tie (QF
losers); then 'form' Groups A & B
- May 2/3: Bye Week
- May 9/10: 3 'Cross-Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties
- May 16/17: 5 'Cross-Prov' ties
- May 23/24: Bye Week
- May 30/31: 1 'Cross- Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties (bye week for Prov
Finalists)
- June 6/7: 2 Prov Finals & 3 'Cross-Prov' ties
Currently, there are 25 Provincial round-robin games (Munster 10 & Leinster 15), with six teams (three from each province) advancing to the AIC KO from 'unbalanced' groups.
My proposal has 25 inter-group games (5v5), with six teams (could have 'more than three' from either province) advancing from groups, expected to be 'balanced' . The 25 games, include 8 Prov KO, 4 other intra-province & 13 cross-province ties. The latter include mouthwatering matchups, with Kilkenny and Galway opposing Munster teams.
In their 5-game schedule, a Prov Finalist would play 2-3 Prov KO games and 3-2 cross/ mixed-province ties.
Given Prov Finals are embedded in the inter-group schedule, all teams could play for AIC KO berths concurrently on the final inter-group weekend (June 6/7). If the AI Finals could be 'flipped' (football first) and played on either side of the August Bank Holiday weekend, inter-group play could be extended to June 20/21 (with AIC KO QFs, SFs & Final played on July 5, 19 & Aug 9, respectively).
Or, alternatively (my preferred option):
OPTION TWO
- Target 'growing the game' (more 'Kildares')
- Consider 'Lein KO 9' (& Muns KO 5) instead
- Lein splits to a 'quartet & quintet'
- Merge 'Lein quartet & Muns trio' to AIC Group A
- Schedule '7v7' (reduce NHL, if necessary)
- One relegated/McDonagh Cup Champ promoted
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3453 - 11/06/2026 15:37:17
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Replying To omahant: "How about this:
As 'growing the game' is the goal, my preference is "Option Two", but I start with "Option One" for ease of presentation.
All teams play mixed-province, inter-group ties, encompassing all Prov 'KO ties', prior to AIC KO:
TWO OPTIONS
OPTION ONE
- Munster KO 5 & Leinster KO 5
- AIC with two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Groups 'formed', not drawn
- Muns QF loser to Group A, winner to B
- SF opponent of Muns QF winner to A
- Muns Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Muns SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Muns trio in A & pair in B
- Lein QF winner to Group A, loser to B
- SF opponent of Lein QF winner to B
- Lein Finalists placed in opposite groups
- Lein SF losers to opposite groups
- There is a Lein pair in A & trio in B
- Merge to form two groups of 5 (A & B)
- Each team completes a 5-game inter-group
schedule, including all their Prov KO ties (1-3)
- Prov KO is 'winner on the day' (1 point each, if
drawn at full time)
- Top 6 advance to AIC KO from a combined 10-
team table
- Top 2 of 6 earn QF byes (not necessarily Prov
Champs)
- AIC KO targets 'intra-group ties' to avoid
repeat pairings
- QFs could be 3v6 & 4v5 (avoid repeat pairings,
if possible)
SFs could have 'seed 1 v lowest QF seed winner'
SCHEDULE:
- Apr 18/19: Muns QF & Lein QF
- Apr 25/26: 4 Prov SFs & 1 'Cross-Prov' tie (QF
losers); then 'form' Groups A & B
- May 2/3: Bye Week
- May 9/10: 3 'Cross-Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties
- May 16/17: 5 'Cross-Prov' ties
- May 23/24: Bye Week
- May 30/31: 1 'Cross- Prov' & 2 'Intra/non-Prov
KO' ties (bye week for Prov
Finalists)
- June 6/7: 2 Prov Finals & 3 'Cross-Prov' ties
Currently, there are 25 Provincial round-robin games (Munster 10 & Leinster 15), with six teams (three from each province) advancing to the AIC KO from 'unbalanced' groups.
My proposal has 25 inter-group games (5v5), with six teams (could have 'more than three' from either province) advancing from groups, expected to be 'balanced' . The 25 games, include 8 Prov KO, 4 other intra-province & 13 cross-province ties. The latter include mouthwatering matchups, with Kilkenny and Galway opposing Munster teams.
In their 5-game schedule, a Prov Finalist would play 2-3 Prov KO games and 3-2 cross/ mixed-province ties.
Given Prov Finals are embedded in the inter-group schedule, all teams could play for AIC KO berths concurrently on the final inter-group weekend (June 6/7). If the AI Finals could be 'flipped' (football first) and played on either side of the August Bank Holiday weekend, inter-group play could be extended to June 20/21 (with AIC KO QFs, SFs & Final played on July 5, 19 & Aug 9, respectively).
Or, alternatively (my preferred option):
OPTION TWO
- Target 'growing the game' (more 'Kildares')
- Consider 'Lein KO 9' (& Muns KO 5) instead
- Lein splits to a 'quartet & quintet'
- Merge 'Lein quartet & Muns trio' to AIC Group A
- Schedule '7v7' (reduce NHL, if necessary)
- One relegated/McDonagh Cup Champ promoted" I'll have a headache trying to get my head around all that!!
richiepmurphy (Kilkenny) - Posts: 108 - 11/06/2026 17:47:18
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One thing is for sure - hurling only reaches 10-12 counties - half of them stop playing intercounty hurling by Mid May.
The lack of big games all summer, combined with the move behind a paywall - means hurling will be of less interest year on year in the 10-12 who do care and wont every reach the other 20.
No big games, no big names, no social media presence = a sport that wont reach the public over the next few years.
The sport is destined for decline now football has got its act together.
We are in mid June in football and 12 counties are still playing - "weaker counties" are toppling the big guns. There are so many matches even the paywall of GAA+ has to allow RTE show some. Tailteann cup matches are good to watch.
Sunday game had highlights last week of 24 football counties in action.
What will we get in Hurling - Sunday game highlights of the same game they showed earlier in the day.
There is also little or no tactical discussion around hurling - it doesn't even have blood and guts anymore as everyone just pucks the ball over from halfway.
Rural Ireland is facing a massive demographic problem at underage level in the next few years - and hurling is worst placed to compete with rugby, Soccer and football. Even basketball is growing quicker than hurling.
By all means change nothing and focus on the Munster Hurling championship - watch the rest of the sport die out everywhere at the same time.
For any sport to grow these days - kids have their phones and need to see their hero's. Hurling doesn't even have 1 big name anymore.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1890 - 16/06/2026 08:38:26
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "One thing is for sure - hurling only reaches 10-12 counties - half of them stop playing intercounty hurling by Mid May.
The lack of big games all summer, combined with the move behind a paywall - means hurling will be of less interest year on year in the 10-12 who do care and wont every reach the other 20.
No big games, no big names, no social media presence = a sport that wont reach the public over the next few years.
The sport is destined for decline now football has got its act together.
We are in mid June in football and 12 counties are still playing - "weaker counties" are toppling the big guns. There are so many matches even the paywall of GAA+ has to allow RTE show some. Tailteann cup matches are good to watch.
Sunday game had highlights last week of 24 football counties in action.
What will we get in Hurling - Sunday game highlights of the same game they showed earlier in the day.
There is also little or no tactical discussion around hurling - it doesn't even have blood and guts anymore as everyone just pucks the ball over from halfway.
Rural Ireland is facing a massive demographic problem at underage level in the next few years - and hurling is worst placed to compete with rugby, Soccer and football. Even basketball is growing quicker than hurling.
By all means change nothing and focus on the Munster Hurling championship - watch the rest of the sport die out everywhere at the same time.
For any sport to grow these days - kids have their phones and need to see their hero's. Hurling doesn't even have 1 big name anymore." Hurling im afraid is now living in the shadow of football. Fair play to the football committee with the rules changes and structure changes it is very exciting to watch. Im really enjoying the football this year and i would be in a hurling stronghold.Like the hurling quarter finals are on this week and there is little talk about it. Its nearly all about the football now. Like you said there is only 5 games left compared to 14 in the football.
This year there was only a handful of good games amd alot of hammerings. Hopefully the last 5 games are quality.
One thing the I think is the structure of the championship is way to lopsided i think the group stages should be after the provincials but i reckon alot in the gaa be against this. But maybe for the greater good for hurling the gaa should really look at the championship.
We will see what comes out of the hurling review and see will that add to the game. Hopefully it does.
The_Full_Forward (Galway) - Posts: 2 - 16/06/2026 12:33:42
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Hurling has improved beyond recognition since the 70s/80s and 90s.
The skills levels, fitness, intensity, coaching, tactics
For all the nostalgia for the old days - first time pulling, ground hurling, man on man, knock out championship, and dont get me wrong there were some good parts to all that, the game now in my opinion is so much better
Thats not to say there are not problems, with the actual game, (for me the tackle, and the ease of scoring points are up there, but others will differ) but its more about making a good game even better
Regarding the number of competitive counties hurling was always thus- if anything there is more competition now with 7-10 counties operating at a decent level. Only 13 counties have ever won the All Ireland (and 3 of those won once and it will be a long time before they win again (Laois, Kerry, London) while this century six have won
There was a crazy decade in the 90s when 7 counties won, all of who are still in McCarthy Cup.
Offaly was the last great breakthrough
So the spread of the game has ever been thus.
The standing of hurling with regard to football is not down to problems with hurling its that football has finally got its act together with regard to its rules (for me the current format of football is confusing but I dont follow it closely TBH)
you always had more countries operating at a higher level in football
But it presents a challenge to hurling- it needs to seriously look at adapting the rules to make a good game better
And its past time we stopped paying lip service to development. But development starts at grassroots and with kids - it doesn't start with throwing counties that are not up to standard into an AI championship to be slaughtered. Or weird amalgamations.
Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 269 - 16/06/2026 13:59:45
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