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Replying To Commodore: "Fine Gael are not Centre right, they are center left like their identical twin Fianna Fail, there are no clear distinctions between the two anymore, hasn't been for years. Yet members of the public are fooled into thinking these two are distinct political options, despite neither being able to openly state those distinctions anymore. They have collectively mismanaged the Country for long-enough, running up massive debts during the most prosperous years of the Irish state.
PUBLIC SECTOR SUMMARY
Of 5.5 million ROI population, ~2.5 million are in employment, ~1.9 million in full-time employment.
-- The Public Sector/Civil Service employs ~410k people.
-- If we include Commercial Semi-public entities (ESB, Uisce Eireann, DAA, RTE, Coilte etc), its ~500k people employed.
-- Almost 25% of employed people in ROI work for the state.
Why is that a problem?
-- Efficiency from the Public Sector is vital to any successful Country, as the private sector is generally bringing in the bulk of the money into the State, while public sector is funded by the taxpayers for share services.
-- We are seeing time and time again that millions of taxpayers money is getting wasted every year by a public sector that has no comprehension of bringing projects in on budget, most of them spent their careers working in this environment of automatic pay scales, not performance related, so no accountability. Think Children's Hospital, Iarnrod Eireann IT system, Bicycle sheds and Data Centers etc.
-- Essential Front line services tend to be underpaid, understaffed and overworked, the general public are deeply frustrated with A&E and hospital waiting times, overcrowding etc. Yet, we have overstaffed, overpaid admins across the board, these inefficiencies are protected by Unions.
-- Public Sector workers are considered to have 'Jobs for life' by banks when it comes to Mortgage applications, there are even Public Sector only Mortgage groups, who provide them with favorable borrowing terms. This in turn keeps the housing market inflated." It's not even funny how incredibly simplistic this analysis is, so simplistic that it cannot be taken, in any way, seriously.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 2079 - 14/06/2026 20:59:44
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Winner: Spain
Top Scorer: nico Williams.
Dark Horse: Ecuador
Player of the Tournament: Van dijk
Lúla571210 (Louth) - Posts: 189 - 14/06/2026 21:32:41
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Replying To Lúla571210: "Winner: Spain
Top Scorer: nico Williams.
Dark Horse: Ecuador
Player of the Tournament: Van dijk" Germany to beat the English on penalties, hopefully.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2757 - 14/06/2026 22:17:10
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Replying To Saynothing: "Germany to beat the English on penalties, hopefully." A group stage exit would be better, and we could all get on with our lives and hear no more about England's World Cup chances, 1966 and so on.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 2079 - 14/06/2026 22:59:09
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The government doesn't build, maintain or hire personnel for data centres in Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8610 - 14/06/2026 19:33:45 26
The direct fiscal return is exceptionally low, relative to the cost of the infrastructural burden attributed to them.
- Data Centers provide very little employment.
- Data Centers account for a very large and growing share of Electricity demand on our grid.
- Most of the economic value associated with Cloud services is captured globally by multinationals, not in or by Ireland.
- Corporate tax cannot be easily applied to these, its questionable how much these actually contribute after subsidies etc they were granted.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1889 - 15/06/2026 11:05:29
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It's not even funny how incredibly simplistic this analysis is, so simplistic that it cannot be taken, in any way, seriously.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 2071 - 14/06/2026 20:59:44 26796
The analysis is accurate, its just not the type of summary normally floated by pro-Government types for obvious reasons.
What isn't funny, is that taxpayers money is being wasted hand over fist for decades by people who have never worked a day in a results based environment with real repercussions for missing targets.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1889 - 15/06/2026 11:27:46
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Replying To Square_B: " Replying To Commodore: "Fine Gael are not Centre right, they are center left like their identical twin Fianna Fail, there are no clear distinctions between the two anymore, hasn't been for years. Yet members of the public are fooled into thinking these two are distinct political options, despite neither being able to openly state those distinctions anymore. They have collectively mismanaged the Country for long-enough, running up massive debts during the most prosperous years of the Irish state.
<u><b>PUBLIC SECTOR SUMMARY</b></u>
Of 5.5 million ROI population, ~2.5 million are in employment, ~1.9 million in full-time employment.
-- The Public Sector/Civil Service employs ~410k people.
-- If we include Commercial Semi-public entities (ESB, Uisce Eireann, DAA, RTE, Coilte etc), its ~500k people employed.
-- Almost 25% of employed people in ROI work for the state.
<b>Why is that a problem?</b>
-- Efficiency from the Public Sector is vital to any successful Country, as the private sector is generally bringing in the bulk of the money into the State, while public sector is funded by the taxpayers for share services.
-- We are seeing time and time again that millions of taxpayers money is getting wasted every year by a public sector that has no comprehension of bringing projects in on budget, most of them spent their careers working in this environment of automatic pay scales, not performance related, so no accountability. Think Children's Hospital, Iarnrod Eireann IT system, Bicycle sheds and Data Centers etc.
-- Essential Front line services tend to be underpaid, understaffed and overworked, the general public are deeply frustrated with A&E and hospital waiting times, overcrowding etc. Yet, we have overstaffed, overpaid admins across the board, these inefficiencies are protected by Unions.
-- Public Sector workers are considered to have 'Jobs for life' by banks when it comes to Mortgage applications, there are even Public Sector only Mortgage groups, who provide them with favorable borrowing terms. This in turn keeps the housing market inflated."</div>It's not even funny how incredibly simplistic this analysis is, so simplistic that it cannot be taken, in any way, seriously." I thought his analysis was spot on, we have the same issues in the six counties where public sector workers are allowed in some cases 3 weeks sick leave a year.
tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 479 - 15/06/2026 11:43:22
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Replying To Square_B: "A group stage exit would be better, and we could all get on with our lives and hear no more about England's World Cup chances, 1966 and so on." Not good for a man's heart but English beat on penalties in the final would be better viewing.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2757 - 15/06/2026 11:49:36
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Replying To Commodore: "The government doesn't build, maintain or hire personnel for data centres in Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8610 - 14/06/2026 19:33:45 26
The direct fiscal return is exceptionally low, relative to the cost of the infrastructural burden attributed to them.
- Data Centers provide very little employment.
- Data Centers account for a very large and growing share of Electricity demand on our grid.
- Most of the economic value associated with Cloud services is captured globally by multinationals, not in or by Ireland.
- Corporate tax cannot be easily applied to these, its questionable how much these actually contribute after subsidies etc they were granted." Most of the data and information you have posted is pretty close to the mark, but I think you have hopped on a knot re data centres. Just do a little more research on the importance and relevance of data centres to FDI and the multinationals on which our economy is possible overly reliant - but that is a different argument. The fact is that we have been dragging our feet for various reasons for decades when it comes to infrastructure and expanding the power grid and electricity generation being just one aspect of that. Just rehashing statistics to support a narrative is fine as an academic exercise, but I haven't as yet heard a single coherent argument from those on the left as to how we can get ourselves out of our current predicament, but biting the hand that feeds us is hardly an option, even if it is a familiar trope from PBP and others. That and adopting a pick and choose approach to the EU. I am old enough to remember what kind of country we were living in prior to joining what was then the Common Market. It was only a pretty place to live in the minds of some romantic writers, the reality was much different.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 2280 - 15/06/2026 12:07:22
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Replying To Commodore: "It's not even funny how incredibly simplistic this analysis is, so simplistic that it cannot be taken, in any way, seriously.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 2071 - 14/06/2026 20:59:44 26796
The analysis is accurate, its just not the type of summary normally floated by pro-Government types for obvious reasons.
What isn't funny, is that taxpayers money is being wasted hand over fist for decades by people who have never worked a day in a results based environment with real repercussions for missing targets." Your post would qualify as opinion, not analysis. Let me tell you, there's absolutely nothing analytical about what you've posted.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 2079 - 15/06/2026 13:12:48
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Replying To Commodore: "The government doesn't build, maintain or hire personnel for data centres in Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8610 - 14/06/2026 19:33:45 26
The direct fiscal return is exceptionally low, relative to the cost of the infrastructural burden attributed to them.
- Data Centers provide very little employment.
- Data Centers account for a very large and growing share of Electricity demand on our grid.
- Most of the economic value associated with Cloud services is captured globally by multinationals, not in or by Ireland.
- Corporate tax cannot be easily applied to these, its questionable how much these actually contribute after subsidies etc they were granted." Regardless of the pros and cons of data centers the government don't build them. This government has many flaws, the government of the middle class for me, but they don't build data centres or plant for other industries. I probably don't like even one TD but have to admire that they back themselves to get elected. I'd even respect anyone that runs for election when I disagree with their opinions.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8611 - 15/06/2026 13:13:24
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Most of the data and information you have posted is pretty close to the mark, but I think you have hopped on a knot re data centres. Just do a little more research on the importance and relevance of data centres to FDI and the multinationals on which our economy is possible overly reliant - but that is a different argument.
I disagree, the Data Centre justification is weaker than I have even stated.
The fact is that we have been dragging our feet for various reasons for decades when it comes to infrastructure and expanding the power grid and electricity generation being just one aspect of that. Just rehashing statistics to support a narrative is fine as an academic exercise, but I haven't as yet heard a single coherent argument from those on the left as to how we can get ourselves out of our current predicament,
I can't speak for the left, as I would self describe myself as Center-Right, But you're incorrect, the ESB is one of the best funded organizations in the Country, and Ireland has one of the most stable power grids in the EU for years. The problem now is that our grids are being overloaded by excessive consumption from Data Centres which were never part of the original power grid network roadmaps.
but biting the hand that feeds us is hardly an option, even if it is a familiar trope from PBP and others. That and adopting a pick and choose approach to the EU. I am old enough to remember what kind of country we were living in prior to joining what was then the Common Market. It was only a pretty place to live in the minds of some romantic writers, the reality was much different.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 2280 - 15/06/2026 12:07:22
Can you elaborate on the "but biting the hand that feeds us is hardly an option" comment?
Indeed Ireland benefited from years of EU investment, we are now a net contributor to the EU to assist the development of other EU countries. And on top of that, the Irish tax payers are still servicing the massive debt from 2008-2009 property/banking bubble bang.
We are technically now the hand that feeds others, so It would be a concern if we were allowing others to strong arm us into taking on projects that contribute little or nothing to our tax payers.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1889 - 15/06/2026 13:27:05
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Your post would qualify as opinion, not analysis. Let me tell you, there's absolutely nothing analytical about what you've posted.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 2074 - 15/06/2026 13:12:48 26
Opinions are what we give here, its an discussion thread on a forum.
However its incorrect to assume that a summarized comment has no analysis behind it, especially with one line responses.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1889 - 15/06/2026 13:29:56
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Replying To GreenandRed: " Replying To Commodore: "<b>The government doesn't build, maintain or hire personnel for data centres in Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8610 - 14/06/2026 19:33:45 26</b>
The direct fiscal return is exceptionally low, relative to the cost of the infrastructural burden attributed to them.
- Data Centers provide very little employment.
- Data Centers account for a very large and growing share of Electricity demand on our grid.
- Most of the economic value associated with Cloud services is captured globally by multinationals, not in or by Ireland.
- Corporate tax cannot be easily applied to these, its questionable how much these actually contribute after subsidies etc they were granted."</div>Regardless of the pros and cons of data centers the government don't build them. This government has many flaws, the government of the middle class for me, but they don't build data centres or plant for other industries. I probably don't like even one TD but have to admire that they back themselves to get elected. I'd even respect anyone that runs for election when I disagree with their opinions." I didn't say the Government build them or own them, they are responsible for them being here, the Irish Government facilitate them in a number of ways, despite the strain they put on our power grid and the little or no financial return the tax payers see from them. For the record, I'm not pro-opposition parties, none of them fill me with confidence as alternatives to Fianna Fail/Fine Gael right now. I'm just disgusted by the waste and inefficiencies, that could be putting our Country on the front foot. I am frustrated at how poorly things are being run, it wouldn't be tolerate in the private sector. As part of my job, I manage major capital projects and we go through rigorous steps before projects are funded and there no adjustment of funding once it begins. I was confused as to how Public sector projects seem to always run over budget by large margins, with no protections to prevent that. Its beyond a joke, its borderline criminal behavior.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1889 - 15/06/2026 13:47:07
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