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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "There is no excuse for what Israel is doing. I was inclined to be sympathetic for historical reasons including their beating the Brits.

They've exhausted that credit. They seem determined to drag world into their mess. For first time in my life i can see Europe descending into chaos and horror again."
There is no excuse. Ive never said otherwise Barney. All Ive said is they are as bad as eachother.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18713 - 08/03/2026 01:18:53    2660487

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Replying To Viking66:  "We arent going to agree."
So you can't explain how that happened?

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1498 - 08/03/2026 11:10:02    2660503

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Replying To Viking66:  "There is no excuse. Ive never said otherwise Barney. All Ive said is they are as bad as eachother."
I know you haven't. It's a mess that needs a lid kept on it but the actions of Israel in last few years - with Americans being dragged more into it - is making it an awful lot worse.

Iran was content enough to keep to itself mostly. A nasty regime too but sometimes the devil you know.

In the past Americans regardless of party would have generally stopped something like the attack on Iran. Biden and Trump - despite him promising to do the opposite - have given them a free hand. They do as they please and seem to care nothing for the consequences. Indeed, some of the smaller parties in Netanyahu coalition see this as some Torah based final conflict. As do the Protestant Evangelical loons in the States.

This will end badly.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4059 - 08/03/2026 11:30:29    2660506

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Replying To Viking66:  "I drove a taxi round Ardoyne before the ceasefire for 3 years while I was at Queens. There are no similarities."
I did say 100 years ago, not 30/40 but you can still draw similarities from that too. I'm sure you will remember getting stopped at multiple check points on a regular basis back then. Springfield Road, Woodvale, Ballysillan etc. The same check points they put everywhere in Gaza. The only difference is that you still had the liberty to drive your taxi about after. In Gaza, any young male of student age is seen as a threat and will be treated as one. There are over 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons, most have been held there without charge for years. I think we called that 'internment' up here in the 70s/80s. I'm not trying to discredit your past, but to plainly say that 'there are no similarities' is like saying Donald Trump's face isn't orange.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2618 - 08/03/2026 11:50:06    2660507

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I did say 100 years ago, not 30/40 but you can still draw similarities from that too. I'm sure you will remember getting stopped at multiple check points on a regular basis back then. Springfield Road, Woodvale, Ballysillan etc. The same check points they put everywhere in Gaza. The only difference is that you still had the liberty to drive your taxi about after. In Gaza, any young male of student age is seen as a threat and will be treated as one. There are over 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons, most have been held there without charge for years. I think we called that 'internment' up here in the 70s/80s. I'm not trying to discredit your past, but to plainly say that 'there are no similarities' is like saying Donald Trump's face isn't orange."
For sure there are similarities now, but there were no Israeli checkpoints there in Gaza between the late noughties and the current flare up after the Hamas raids. For sure there were checkpoints between Gaza and Israel, and Gaza and Egypt.
I remember getting stopped and the car searched 4 times in the space of a journey less than 2 miles long from Ardoyne to the New Lodge Road. I agree its no way to be living.
The similarities, or lack of, I was talking about though were between Gaza and the 6 counties. The Israelis pulled their settlers out of Gaza, and should be doing that in the West Bank also, and compensating them dor the work done on the bits of land they were illegally occupying in the West Bank by giving them land to try get productive in Israel. I get that these settlers dont want to leave the land they have put so much work into, but they shouldn't have been there in the first place.
The "British" settlers in the North are now more Irish than alot of the population in the South, in that their families are here for longer, it's just a shame they can't see that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18713 - 09/03/2026 09:10:50    2660609

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I know you haven't. It's a mess that needs a lid kept on it but the actions of Israel in last few years - with Americans being dragged more into it - is making it an awful lot worse.

Iran was content enough to keep to itself mostly. A nasty regime too but sometimes the devil you know.

In the past Americans regardless of party would have generally stopped something like the attack on Iran. Biden and Trump - despite him promising to do the opposite - have given them a free hand. They do as they please and seem to care nothing for the consequences. Indeed, some of the smaller parties in Netanyahu coalition see this as some Torah based final conflict. As do the Protestant Evangelical loons in the States.

This will end badly."
I can't see it ending at all Barney, and thats even worse than ending badly.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18713 - 09/03/2026 10:36:43    2660619

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Blames everything on October 7th but doesn't ask himself how it was allowed to happen on the doorstep of the world's most protected country and informed army. Like the rest of them."
Yes you'd have to think that Israel knew about Oct 7th in advance, so that they'd have the opportunity to come down like a ton of bricks in 'retaliation' . The Trump window of opportunity was too inviting.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4598 - 09/03/2026 12:18:55    2660646

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "So you can't explain how that happened?"
It could've been let happen for sure. To use as an excuse like Margaret Thatcher let the Falklands be invaded. Maybe they underestimated the scale of what would happen. Thought it wouldn't be as bad.
At the same time their information as regards Hamas doesn't seem to be as good as their intel on Iran and Hezbollah. Hamas are still even now a functioning organisation, and they havent seemed to be able to take out as many senior members of the Hamas hierarchy.
Thats not why I posted we wont ever agree, why I posted that is you are obviously pro Palestinian and pro Arab, whereas Im not pro either of them. And there's nothing either of us are going to post on this subject that will change that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18713 - 09/03/2026 12:25:10    2660650

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Replying To Viking66:  "It could've been let happen for sure. To use as an excuse like Margaret Thatcher let the Falklands be invaded. Maybe they underestimated the scale of what would happen. Thought it wouldn't be as bad.
At the same time their information as regards Hamas doesn't seem to be as good as their intel on Iran and Hezbollah. Hamas are still even now a functioning organisation, and they havent seemed to be able to take out as many senior members of the Hamas hierarchy.
Thats not why I posted we wont ever agree, why I posted that is you are obviously pro Palestinian and pro Arab, whereas Im not pro either of them. And there's nothing either of us are going to post on this subject that will change that."
I'm not obviously anything. Stop making assumptions. I'm neither. Like most decent people I'm pro human. That's the long and the short of it. Between destruction, starvation and genocide. I could go on but it is well documented at this stage.

What Israel have inflicted on Gaza for the past two and half years is as in-humane as you can get.

You'll often hear them through out the line 'Never Again', but they are happy enough to inflcit it.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1498 - 09/03/2026 13:11:43    2660659

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I have a question which possibly some of the Trumpites on here might have some answers. If we are to believe POTUS, the war is won, as per his criticism to Starmer. He says everything in Iran is " out", navy, air force and communications. Now, if all this is to be believed, then who is responsible or how are these drones and missiles being sprayed all across the Middle East from Iran with amazing accuracy ?

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 2128 - 09/03/2026 13:19:29    2660662

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have a question which possibly some of the Trumpites on here might have some answers. If we are to believe POTUS, the war is won, as per his criticism to Starmer. He says everything in Iran is " out", navy, air force and communications. Now, if all this is to be believed, then who is responsible or how are these drones and missiles being sprayed all across the Middle East from Iran with amazing accuracy ?"
And also, with their superior technology and military prowess, how was a school hit which killed 180 young girls?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10262 - 09/03/2026 13:45:05    2660665

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have a question which possibly some of the Trumpites on here might have some answers. If we are to believe POTUS, the war is won, as per his criticism to Starmer. He says everything in Iran is " out", navy, air force and communications. Now, if all this is to be believed, then who is responsible or how are these drones and missiles being sprayed all across the Middle East from Iran with amazing accuracy ?"
I believe Trump is annoyed at Starmer for being so "LATE" To get on board. Just a guess. As for the rest of the question you asked I don't know who's firing what. Like Lockjaw asked about the little girls school and I wonder who did that. Was it the Americans/Israelis OR Iranians to garner up pity and support OR Mossad OR some Rebel group? I am FULLY AGAINST ALL WAR including this one. And I trust very little info coming out from it or any wars. I'm not a fan of Irans former leadership OR Israel's leadership.

SouthGalway (Galway) - Posts: 232 - 09/03/2026 14:46:40    2660672

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "And also, with their superior technology and military prowess, how was a school hit which killed 180 young girls?"
Their much vaunted intelligence services seemed to strangely miss October 7 even though some of Hamas leaders were assets.

Also manage to bomb schools, Christian churches and others in error while claiming to be able to direct missiles accurately over 1000 Miles to hit individual targets.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4059 - 09/03/2026 15:09:21    2660678

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Replying To Freethinker:  "I have a question which possibly some of the Trumpites on here might have some answers. If we are to believe POTUS, the war is won, as per his criticism to Starmer. He says everything in Iran is " out", navy, air force and communications. Now, if all this is to be believed, then who is responsible or how are these drones and missiles being sprayed all across the Middle East from Iran with amazing accuracy ?"
First causalty in War is truth.

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 408 - 09/03/2026 15:14:56    2660679

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "I'm not obviously anything. Stop making assumptions. I'm neither. Like most decent people I'm pro human. That's the long and the short of it. Between destruction, starvation and genocide. I could go on but it is well documented at this stage.

What Israel have inflicted on Gaza for the past two and half years is as in-humane as you can get.

You'll often hear them through out the line 'Never Again', but they are happy enough to inflcit it."
Absolutely its inhumane. Noone on here has tried to justify it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18713 - 09/03/2026 15:39:54    2660681

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