National Forum

Allianz protest

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yup, I pointed that out myself a page or two back, but there's nobody protesting at how schools do business with them...."
There wouldn't be because schools have enough to be doing and Allianz have been very good to the primary sector over the years with the support and reasonable quotes given. They've also sponsored days in Croke park for children that would never have got the chance playing there.

Ros2013 (Roscommon) - Posts: 607 - 27/01/2026 20:56:18    2653645

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Replying To Square_B:  "Allianz sponsors sport across Europe and further afield and here we are getting our knickers in a twist to appease a few wokies who probably already purchase goods already (knowing or unknowingly) in entities associated with Israel. Your pension is likely invested in entities that trade with Israel, are people going to get all pious about that too? Allianz have the naming rights to Twickenham & the Munich Football Arena and I do not hear any calls on the English RFU or German FA to end any deals. Choosing to boycott Allianz is not going to make one blind bit of difference to the long suffering Palestinian people. If you want to feel better about yourself, donate a few euro to a cause that actually helps them."
None of the players, team personnel or managers have mentioned a boycott. A few have publicly and possibly more privately said no to interviews in front of the logo. That's their choice. Is that not OK? What's the problem?

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 1066 - 27/01/2026 20:57:53    2653646

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My problem with the protest against the Allianz sponsorship is that you very quickly get into contradictory and ' whataboutery' positions. Should my own county fulfil a fixture in a country who's regime assassinated / murdered one of its own citizens , then lied and tried to cover up what happened.

facethepuckout (Roscommon) - Posts: 230 - 27/01/2026 22:41:46    2653659

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Some lads better throw their iPhones in the bin. Israeli tech and all that. There are likely a ton of healthcare products you should stay away from too."
And any computer with an intel processor. In fact we should demand intel leave Ireland. That'll learn them

alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 246 - 28/01/2026 06:24:36    2653665

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Replying To facethepuckout:  "My problem with the protest against the Allianz sponsorship is that you very quickly get into contradictory and ' whataboutery' positions. Should my own county fulfil a fixture in a country who's regime assassinated / murdered one of its own citizens , then lied and tried to cover up what happened."
Well that's your problem if you think it's a problem. "How dare someone else make a personal decision not to endorse a company because it might bring other issues into the arena!"
There is a right to peaceful protest and no one is being forced to take part.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 1066 - 28/01/2026 09:46:12    2653689

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Replying To Ros2013:  "There wouldn't be because schools have enough to be doing and Allianz have been very good to the primary sector over the years with the support and reasonable quotes given. They've also sponsored days in Croke park for children that would never have got the chance playing there."
Ah, but surely you could say the same about the GAA????!!!!!

For example - "Allianz have been very good to the GAA over the years, pumping in millions of euro in sponsorship money over the course of decades, and providing an insurance scheme for clubs to insure their grounds & facilities at far cheaper rates than they'd get if they had to go looking for cover individually and separately. And yes, providing the opportunities for thousands of young players to have an unforgettable day out by playing in Croke Park".

Your own argument doesn't really stand up when it can so easily be used against you as well!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3332 - 28/01/2026 09:55:33    2653690

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There should be protests against the GAA over the shameful decision to retain Allianz but they are unlikely to be successful. When an organisation makes a decision such as this they are likely a lost cause as finances should never be placed of higher importance than a genocide.

It is also a national embarrassment that Ireland is the second biggest importer of Israeli goods after the rogue state the USA which is number one by some distance.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1728 - 28/01/2026 10:14:38    2653696

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Some good points & counterpoints being made throughout this discussion. And, after all, I'm no clearer on what my stance should be. The news below from 24/12/25 has helped sway things for me, though:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/allianz-and-aviva-drop-elbit-systems-insurance-after-palestine-protests

'Allianz and Aviva drop Elbit Systems insurance after pro-Palestine protests'

"Elbit Systems is a privately owned company that has an 80 percent monopoly over the weapons and equipment for Israel's land forces and 85 percent of the combat drones used by the air force.

"The company is accused by critics of being complicit in Israeli war crimes against Palestinians."

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4100 - 28/01/2026 10:57:12    2653702

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Replying To supermon:  "So the English and the Germans aren't doing it. That's your argument? Maybe have a good think about that."
That's the argument you want to see. Maybe you might want to think about your argument and how hypocritical it is before pontoficating to others.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1712 - 28/01/2026 11:10:35    2653704

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Replying To supermon:  "Hey listen if someone made an argument to change my mind about the GAA I would. I don't really understand what you mean by the US would never allow who blacklist who? This sentence doesn't make sense to me.

And it's not about changing minds. I'm giving an opinion that is think is valid. One thing I take umbridge with is a narrative that is put forth by you and by GAA hierarchy, that we wouldn't understand how complex this is or that it's somehow some simplified Facebook populist commentary that has formed our opinion.

My mind would be changed if there was a conciliatory tone from these organisations for having bought those bonds, maybe a 'with hindsight we should not have done that', or 'lessons have been learned' style statement. As yet I have not come across any statement with that tone. It's seems it's business as usual.

Can I ask you do you have a difficulty with the company having these bonds? Are you ok that they don't seem to have said that this wasn't a good idea in light of what was said in the UN report? Are you ok with the main sponsor of the GAA and organisation of which I am a member and have given my time as a volunteer has a connection to this global business?

Genuinely it takes a lot for me not to go a support my county in the league. And probably the championship as they also sponsor that competition. I would love my mind to be changed actually. Nothing you have said or anyone has said has managed to change it even slightly.

I would add that maybe the global organisation has made a comment on this that I have missed, but as yet I haven't come across it."
PIMCO has been given complete operational and investment independence from the parent. As an investment company that manages funds where the the people who invest in those funds expect the maximum returns then unless a company or countries bonds are on a sanctions list then they will make their decisions based on what is the best outcome for the fund. In the pension fund world you can get ESG funds, although these are now less likely in the US due to trump, where their mandate would be to have a conscience about where they invest their funds. That is not the case here and the PIMCO portfolio manager would have made the investment purely on a return to the fund basis. The reality for these funds is that investors does not reward them for underperforming the market due to them using the conscience to make a decision, the pubic gives them money and expects them to make decisions based solely on mathematical calculations unless they are prevented from doing this by government sanctions or restrictions.

Allianz gives PIMCO total investment decision independence and to interfere in that would prove disastrous for the cohesion of the relationship between the sub and parent. To try and claim that Allianz could have done anything about this is ignoring the real world. You may get upset over saying that but it is what it is.

By the way once the bonds are bought the damage was done. PIMCO selling them to someone else would not make one bit of different to Israel as they had already got their cash. The UN report was about who initially bought them not who holds them today. So even if Allianz did not agree with the decision once they found out - perhaps the same way as everyone else did then selling them would not change anything from what the report accused them of doing as the Israeli government would never buy them back.

The advent of private pension funds and big tech has made us more morally compromised as individuals than ever before. If you want to make a stand over Allianz that is your choice.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2155 - 28/01/2026 11:10:56    2653705

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Replying To sligo joe:  "None of the players, team personnel or managers have mentioned a boycott. A few have publicly and possibly more privately said no to interviews in front of the logo. That's their choice. Is that not OK? What's the problem?"
What's the problem? It's woke, virtue signalling nonsense so these lads can feel good about themselves while pretending that their stance actually changes anything. That's the problem. As I've said, if they really want to help the Palestinian people, donate a few euro to causes that ACTUALLY help them.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1712 - 28/01/2026 11:14:21    2653706

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Replying To Square_B:  "What's the problem? It's woke, virtue signalling nonsense so these lads can feel good about themselves while pretending that their stance actually changes anything. That's the problem. As I've said, if they really want to help the Palestinian people, donate a few euro to causes that ACTUALLY help them."
Thats trumpian nonsense talk 101. it isnt "woke" and its the exact opposite of virtue signalling.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3906 - 28/01/2026 11:31:04    2653711

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Thats trumpian nonsense talk 101. it isnt "woke" and its the exact opposite of virtue signalling."
Please. A group of lads deciding not to stand in front of Allianz hoarding because of some sence of 'solidarity' is nothing but woke, virtue signalling nonsense which will do absolutely nothing to help the plight of the Palestinian people bar make them feel good about themselves.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1712 - 28/01/2026 11:56:52    2653717

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Thats trumpian nonsense talk 101. it isnt "woke" and its the exact opposite of virtue signalling."
It is virtue signalling. Especially when they are saying nothing about their own sponsor!

Again, thats not to get at them. What happened, is happening, in Gaza was and is appalling but this is meaningless. Send the poor kids a few Euro if you can trust the person you give it through. Entire world of financial giants like Allianz and investment funds are responsible for lots of things that are not to our end benefit.

Other than entering a monastery there's no avoiding them, unfortunately.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3963 - 28/01/2026 12:00:55    2653718

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Replying To keeper7:  "Some good points & counterpoints being made throughout this discussion. And, after all, I'm no clearer on what my stance should be. The news below from 24/12/25 has helped sway things for me, though:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/allianz-and-aviva-drop-elbit-systems-insurance-after-palestine-protests

'Allianz and Aviva drop Elbit Systems insurance after pro-Palestine protests'

"Elbit Systems is a privately owned company that has an 80 percent monopoly over the weapons and equipment for Israel's land forces and 85 percent of the combat drones used by the air force.

"The company is accused by critics of being complicit in Israeli war crimes against Palestinians.""
but many would say that protests don't have any impact???

I can understand finding the whole situation complicated and how do you try and navigate the modern world without being tied up and implicated in something you find morally reprehensible

I just don't understand the attitude of "sure you're virtue signalling" "what good is it doing" "oh yeah I'm sure one person in Ireland is going to make a difference in Gaza" etc. If you don't want to protest that's fine but what have you got against people trying to take stand in their personal lives about something they feel strongly about

CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 286 - 28/01/2026 12:01:22    2653719

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Replying To zinny:  "PIMCO has been given complete operational and investment independence from the parent. As an investment company that manages funds where the the people who invest in those funds expect the maximum returns then unless a company or countries bonds are on a sanctions list then they will make their decisions based on what is the best outcome for the fund. In the pension fund world you can get ESG funds, although these are now less likely in the US due to trump, where their mandate would be to have a conscience about where they invest their funds. That is not the case here and the PIMCO portfolio manager would have made the investment purely on a return to the fund basis. The reality for these funds is that investors does not reward them for underperforming the market due to them using the conscience to make a decision, the pubic gives them money and expects them to make decisions based solely on mathematical calculations unless they are prevented from doing this by government sanctions or restrictions.

Allianz gives PIMCO total investment decision independence and to interfere in that would prove disastrous for the cohesion of the relationship between the sub and parent. To try and claim that Allianz could have done anything about this is ignoring the real world. You may get upset over saying that but it is what it is.

By the way once the bonds are bought the damage was done. PIMCO selling them to someone else would not make one bit of different to Israel as they had already got their cash. The UN report was about who initially bought them not who holds them today. So even if Allianz did not agree with the decision once they found out - perhaps the same way as everyone else did then selling them would not change anything from what the report accused them of doing as the Israeli government would never buy them back.

The advent of private pension funds and big tech has made us more morally compromised as individuals than ever before. If you want to make a stand over Allianz that is your choice."
Oh I'm not getting upset about it, if Allianz chooses to do business that way thats fine for them. However making those choices come with consequences. I'm not disagreeing with your analysis of how the system works, I'll take your word for it.

Maybe losing sponsorship in a instance like this and having negative media commentary about the situation might actually make companies reconsider how they chose to invest funds or do business?

I'm not asking for them to sell anything, nor do I expect them to. They can do what they want. But like even a 'maybe buying these bonds was regretable' statement might have changed my mind when it comes to their continued sponsorship of the GAA. Its not Allianz's behaviour I am actually concerned with. They behave like every capitalist organisation that really are only concerned with one thing. My concern is the behaviour of the GAA. Its up to them who they choose to get as a sponsor. If they are happy to be sponsored by a company that is happy to do this kind of business thats what bothers me.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1089 - 28/01/2026 12:12:43    2653722

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Replying To Square_B:  "That's the argument you want to see. Maybe you might want to think about your argument and how hypocritical it is before pontoficating to others."
Explain to me how I am being hypocritical? Who am I pontificating to? I'm giving my opinion on the matter on a forum set up to discuss this. Last time I checked people in this country are allowed to give opinions. I think I've probably made an argument you find hard to counter so you have resorted to saying I'm pontificating.

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1089 - 28/01/2026 12:43:12    2653726

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Replying To supermon:  "Oh I'm not getting upset about it, if Allianz chooses to do business that way thats fine for them. However making those choices come with consequences. I'm not disagreeing with your analysis of how the system works, I'll take your word for it.

Maybe losing sponsorship in a instance like this and having negative media commentary about the situation might actually make companies reconsider how they chose to invest funds or do business?

I'm not asking for them to sell anything, nor do I expect them to. They can do what they want. But like even a 'maybe buying these bonds was regretable' statement might have changed my mind when it comes to their continued sponsorship of the GAA. Its not Allianz's behaviour I am actually concerned with. They behave like every capitalist organisation that really are only concerned with one thing. My concern is the behaviour of the GAA. Its up to them who they choose to get as a sponsor. If they are happy to be sponsored by a company that is happy to do this kind of business thats what bothers me."
"If they are happy to be sponsored by a company that is happy to do this kind of business thats what bothers me."

It was asserted that most alternative insurers (such as Aviva) would be in the very same boat on this as Allianz are. As for sponsorship, the GAA already doesn't deal with gambling or alcohol companies. Soccer or rugby is not similarly burdened with these constraints.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4100 - 28/01/2026 13:43:56    2653738

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Replying To Square_B:  "What's the problem? It's woke, virtue signalling nonsense so these lads can feel good about themselves while pretending that their stance actually changes anything. That's the problem. As I've said, if they really want to help the Palestinian people, donate a few euro to causes that ACTUALLY help them."
But why is it a problem for you. If someone says or does something that "you believe" is woke, virtue signalling etc, they are entitled to do so, they don't need or look for your approval so relax and wear an allianz shirt or whatever and the ones that don't want to stand beside allianz logos they can do that too. Again it's up to them if they want to donate to Palestinians, nothing to do with me or indeed you

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 1066 - 28/01/2026 13:54:56    2653740

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Replying To sligo joe:  "But why is it a problem for you. If someone says or does something that "you believe" is woke, virtue signalling etc, they are entitled to do so, they don't need or look for your approval so relax and wear an allianz shirt or whatever and the ones that don't want to stand beside allianz logos they can do that too. Again it's up to them if they want to donate to Palestinians, nothing to do with me or indeed you"
That works both ways. This isn't a one way street. It's when these people start telling others that they should examine their consciousness about a topic or start telling organisations like the GAA what they should do. That's the problem I have. Protest if you want, you don't need to pontoficate to others about their morals as if your morals are the best morals.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1712 - 28/01/2026 14:21:45    2653748

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