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Replying To updwell:  "Ut wasn't thrown away, it was given to Ukraine to support them against fascists."
And how's that going for them? Its just throwing good money after bad. Imagine what €125 million could have done for our own defense or our Gardai? Remember Zelenski and Co aren't worrying about you and me.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2620 - 07/12/2025 20:20:53    2647384

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Replying To Viking66:  "So Trump deserves credit for caving in to Putins demands? Like Lloyd George did for caving in to Carson and Craig's demands? Or Collins for that matter?"
the 26 counties "caved in" I suppose. Can you name one demand that Trump "caved in" on ?
you may be right but please edify

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1249 - 07/12/2025 20:58:29    2647391

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "the 26 counties "caved in" I suppose. Can you name one demand that Trump "caved in" on ?
you may be right but please edify"
Putin wants the Donbas. Trump agreed to that in his provisional plan.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17721 - 07/12/2025 21:50:59    2647402

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Replying To Bon:  "And how's that going for them? Its just throwing good money after bad. Imagine what €125 million could have done for our own defense or our Gardai? Remember Zelenski and Co aren't worrying about you and me."
Well everyone thought the Russians would overrun Ukraine in a month and 3 years later they've barely moved forward and when they do it's at the expense of thousands of Russians. As regards Zelenski not worrying about us on the contrary if the Russians aren't stopped now they will continue to roll westward and some day all of Europe will have to face up to Putin and we will need the help then.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 923 - 07/12/2025 21:54:45    2647404

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Replying To Viking66:  "Putin wants the Donbas. Trump agreed to that in his provisional plan."
The Donbas corridor is the gateway to the Crimea, hence the annexation. It's a horrible war that needs to end.
Maybe Kamala Harris would have fixed it by now, hardly.
Look, peace to all during this season and best in 2026.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1249 - 08/12/2025 10:31:41    2647436

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "Not a huge Trump fan, but I don't have Trump derangement syndrome like most of the fools on here.
Give credit when it's due."
What does Trump deserve credit for?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11831 - 08/12/2025 11:10:27    2647446

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Replying To updwell:  "Well everyone thought the Russians would overrun Ukraine in a month and 3 years later they've barely moved forward and when they do it's at the expense of thousands of Russians. As regards Zelenski not worrying about us on the contrary if the Russians aren't stopped now they will continue to roll westward and some day all of Europe will have to face up to Putin and we will need the help then."
I'm always amazed when I see people repeat this line, much peddled by NATO hawks and others who have a vested interest in unending war, without seeing the contradictions in it.

So at the outbreak of war Russia had roughly 5 times the population of Ukraine and let's say 5 times greater military might, hardware and personnel. But 3.5 years later, "they've barely moved forward" as you rightly claim. In linear warfare terms (which is the standard by which all commentators in the West including NATO judge how it is going) that is clearly failure and a sign of Russian weakness. Yet as the hawks will say, "if they (Russia) are not stopped now they will continue to roll westward". Ukraine is a non-nuclear power without an Article 5 guarantee. So where will Russia roll westward? The Baltic states have an Article 5 guarantee so they are safe even if psychologically they think they aren't. Moldova? To go there they would have to conquer and pacify the whole of Ukraine which is more than they are capable of doing and Putin is aware of that. The 4 oblasts Russia is claiming have a majority Russian speaking population and could be incorporated into the Russian state without too much trouble but if they conquered the rest of Ukraine it would be a thorn in Russia's side for decades to come.
Russia may have a more battle-hardened army but whatever settlement is reached and whatever "victory" they will achieve will come at an enormous price. They had a population imbalance pre-war which will be greatly exascerbated now with their military casualty figures, and because of being overstretched military they have lost their sphere of influence in Syria and the Middle East. They have been forced into a situation where they have had to become best friends with India and China in particular and basically become subservient to the latter rather than an equal partner. While they'd be satisfied if achieving their war aims, they'll have enough wound-licking to do for at least another generation before they could even be in a position to think about "rolling further westward."

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2109 - 08/12/2025 12:58:51    2647470

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "Not a huge Trump fan, but I don't have Trump derangement syndrome like most of the fools on here.
Give credit when it's due."
What did Trump do? He is bending over backwords to keep Russia on side.

Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 810 - 08/12/2025 13:23:44    2647476

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I'm always amazed when I see people repeat this line, much peddled by NATO hawks and others who have a vested interest in unending war, without seeing the contradictions in it.

So at the outbreak of war Russia had roughly 5 times the population of Ukraine and let's say 5 times greater military might, hardware and personnel. But 3.5 years later, "they've barely moved forward" as you rightly claim. In linear warfare terms (which is the standard by which all commentators in the West including NATO judge how it is going) that is clearly failure and a sign of Russian weakness. Yet as the hawks will say, "if they (Russia) are not stopped now they will continue to roll westward". Ukraine is a non-nuclear power without an Article 5 guarantee. So where will Russia roll westward? The Baltic states have an Article 5 guarantee so they are safe even if psychologically they think they aren't. Moldova? To go there they would have to conquer and pacify the whole of Ukraine which is more than they are capable of doing and Putin is aware of that. The 4 oblasts Russia is claiming have a majority Russian speaking population and could be incorporated into the Russian state without too much trouble but if they conquered the rest of Ukraine it would be a thorn in Russia's side for decades to come.
Russia may have a more battle-hardened army but whatever settlement is reached and whatever "victory" they will achieve will come at an enormous price. They had a population imbalance pre-war which will be greatly exascerbated now with their military casualty figures, and because of being overstretched military they have lost their sphere of influence in Syria and the Middle East. They have been forced into a situation where they have had to become best friends with India and China in particular and basically become subservient to the latter rather than an equal partner. While they'd be satisfied if achieving their war aims, they'll have enough wound-licking to do for at least another generation before they could even be in a position to think about "rolling further westward.""
Well said

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1950 - 08/12/2025 13:55:56    2647488

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Replying To yew_tree:  "What does Trump deserve credit for?"
For putting America first. I'm no American fan but Trump deserves credit.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2514 - 08/12/2025 15:43:44    2647507

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Replying To Saynothing:  "For putting America first. I'm no American fan but Trump deserves credit."
What has he done for Native Americans?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17721 - 08/12/2025 16:16:35    2647517

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Replying To Saynothing:  "For putting America first. I'm no American fan but Trump deserves credit."
Cost of living is going up up up and the national debt is skyrocketing . Can you actually point something out that's actually been good? Genuinely. Because even the ICE raids are out of control and unorganised.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8653 - 08/12/2025 16:46:59    2647522

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Cost of living is going up up up and the national debt is skyrocketing . Can you actually point something out that's actually been good? Genuinely. Because even the ICE raids are out of control and unorganised."
Analysis will tell even the anti Trump brigade that America is booming from Trumps reelection. Dow Jones , jobs for Americans, tighter border controls, all things American. There is enough people like Trump in Irish and British politics.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2514 - 08/12/2025 17:43:53    2647529

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He assisted in stopping the India Pakistan conflict escalating

While still not good he has certainly improved situation in palenstine.

Also deserves credit under his first term for keeping conflict to a minimum

Between his terms there was a shambles in Afghanistan Russia were able to invade Ukraine and Israel Palestine conflict deteriorated

But the fella who was at fault for that came over here and said mayo for sam so he's grand

Most of all he deserves credit for putting up with Rio Ferdinand Friday.

Now his list of failings are much greater eg weak with Israel & Russia to start

but the trump derangement syndrome crew ignore any positives

jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1776 - 08/12/2025 17:44:36    2647530

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Replying To updwell:  "Well everyone thought the Russians would overrun Ukraine in a month and 3 years later they've barely moved forward and when they do it's at the expense of thousands of Russians. As regards Zelenski not worrying about us on the contrary if the Russians aren't stopped now they will continue to roll westward and some day all of Europe will have to face up to Putin and we will need the help then."
What's giving you the impression that it's Russia's intention to "roll further westward"

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4060 - 08/12/2025 17:51:08    2647534

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I'm always amazed when I see people repeat this line, much peddled by NATO hawks and others who have a vested interest in unending war, without seeing the contradictions in it.

So at the outbreak of war Russia had roughly 5 times the population of Ukraine and let's say 5 times greater military might, hardware and personnel. But 3.5 years later, "they've barely moved forward" as you rightly claim. In linear warfare terms (which is the standard by which all commentators in the West including NATO judge how it is going) that is clearly failure and a sign of Russian weakness. Yet as the hawks will say, "if they (Russia) are not stopped now they will continue to roll westward". Ukraine is a non-nuclear power without an Article 5 guarantee. So where will Russia roll westward? The Baltic states have an Article 5 guarantee so they are safe even if psychologically they think they aren't. Moldova? To go there they would have to conquer and pacify the whole of Ukraine which is more than they are capable of doing and Putin is aware of that. The 4 oblasts Russia is claiming have a majority Russian speaking population and could be incorporated into the Russian state without too much trouble but if they conquered the rest of Ukraine it would be a thorn in Russia's side for decades to come.
Russia may have a more battle-hardened army but whatever settlement is reached and whatever "victory" they will achieve will come at an enormous price. They had a population imbalance pre-war which will be greatly exascerbated now with their military casualty figures, and because of being overstretched military they have lost their sphere of influence in Syria and the Middle East. They have been forced into a situation where they have had to become best friends with India and China in particular and basically become subservient to the latter rather than an equal partner. While they'd be satisfied if achieving their war aims, they'll have enough wound-licking to do for at least another generation before they could even be in a position to think about "rolling further westward.""
All fair points PoolSturgen, I can't disagree with much that you say but while the Russians military on the ground is finding it tough in Ukraine they continue to provoke and push the limits with their drone incursions into Eastern Europe. Why are they continuing to do this and continue to raise tensions with countries that they occupied for 50 years in the recent past. If NATO was as hawkish as you say they would have had reasons to react but if anything they have been too restraint leading to Russia becoming more emboldened. The elephant in the room here is Trump and his view of Europe as an enemy and cosying up to Putin whenever he flickers his eye lashes at him. I don't think the US under Trump will be coming to the aid of the Baltic States or any other European nation if the Russians attack them regardless of any guarantees NATO has. If the US threw their considerable weight behind the Ukrainians the Russians wouldn't be long coming to the negotiation table with realistic conditions and Trump just might get his second peace prize.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 923 - 08/12/2025 19:08:41    2647541

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Cost of living is going up up up and the national debt is skyrocketing . Can you actually point something out that's actually been good? Genuinely. Because even the ICE raids are out of control and unorganised."
I'd say you'll be alright so don't worry, you can cry on here about something day in day out you're such a good lad.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3592 - 08/12/2025 19:27:41    2647545

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