National Forum

Shorts Vs Skorts

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "The delegates should be canvassing the players for their views on certain motions, especially ones like this about skorts. Not all players have the time to attend meetings."
But equally delegates can't be expected to know everything players want if they're not being told about it.

It's easy to come along and say it's obvious everyone knows something's an issue but unless the actual people who can do something about it isn't told nothing will happen.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1617 - 07/05/2025 14:05:45    2607370

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Replying To boxtyburgerbuns:  "I have absolutely no idea. But what I do know is that however many there are, there should be more."
I also don't know but I'd imagine it's very few it any. This should also be the case with the men's game.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1617 - 07/05/2025 14:06:41    2607371

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Replying To oneoff:  "But equally delegates can't be expected to know everything players want if they're not being told about it.

It's easy to come along and say it's obvious everyone knows something's an issue but unless the actual people who can do something about it isn't told nothing will happen."
If a delegate doesn't know what the players want, then they can ask them.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2753 - 07/05/2025 14:17:06    2607373

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Its not like they are trying to change rules of the game.Time moves on.Let the ladies have the choice.

brayballer (Wicklow) - Posts: 54 - 07/05/2025 15:13:06    2607389

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Replying To bláthach:  "How dare you tell us where to play our sport, we have a right to wear shorts just as well as you do assuming you are a male person. I for one would not like to back down on this."
Truth hurts.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 496 - 07/05/2025 15:20:14    2607393

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "If a delegate doesn't know what the players want, then they can ask them."
Maybe as you might say they don't have time to ask players? Or is that different?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1617 - 07/05/2025 17:32:06    2607433

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Fair play to Cork captain Ashling Thompson for saying her team will wear shorts in the Munster Final and they won't change…. All Dublin referees told to use common sense and let the girls choose for themselves what to wear during matches…!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3814 - 07/05/2025 17:37:03    2607435

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Truth hurts."
Superb input as always!!! Very insightful. Thanks so much.

bláthach (Leitrim) - Posts: 76 - 07/05/2025 19:26:41    2607455

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Here's a thing. I'm assuming the Camogie Association works like the GAA, in that every single member of the association has the chance to have a voice on motions going to Congress.

Say for example there was a motion going to GAA Congress that men had to wear skorts too, and our players were 99% against it (would probably be un-PC to tell you about the odd man out!). Here's what would happen:
- Congress motions would be circulated to clubs well in advance of Congress itself.
- Club would discuss them at a meeting, listen to the Players' Rep on this one, and mandate the County Board delegate to vote against it when it comes up for discussion there.
- Assuming the majority of other clubs felt the same, County Board would oppose the motion, and mandate its delegates to Congress to vote against it there.
- And assuming the majority of counties felt the same and did the same, the motion would be lost.

If something broke down along the way as the shorts/skorts motion made its way to Camogie Congress, then either:
- Delegates didn't vote the way they were supposed to, or
- Players didn't sufficiently make their voices heard when they had the opportunity.

There's a strong chance it was the second one. Players often don't pay attention to motions for County Conventions and Congress, even when those motions could end up affecting them directly.

Something I don't understand is that since the motion was lost at Camogie Congress in April 2024, why it's taken over a year for the players to make a stand. Every single one of the players who wore shorts last weekend, who are wearing them this week in Dublin club matches, and who intend to wear them next weekend in Cork v Waterford, wore skorts as normal last year.

What's changed now, to bring it to a head?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 07/05/2025 23:10:29    2607485

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So if the Camogie Board said two weeks ago that they would allow a vote on skorts in 2026 they might have bought themselves some time
But that train already left the station- well past time for them to declare victory and allow players to choose
They can save face by saying it's a temporary solution until a formal vote but right now players are taking the decision out of their hands

Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 105 - 08/05/2025 00:42:12    2607493

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Replying To bláthach:  "Superb input as always!!! Very insightful. Thanks so much."
It was all that was required for your delusional post.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 496 - 08/05/2025 04:07:57    2607501

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Replying To oneoff:  "Maybe as you might say they don't have time to ask players? Or is that different?"
A delegates job is to vote on behalf of the county when at Congress. Not vote based on personal preference.
To do that job properly, you have to find out what each club wants. Each club should ask it's players about a motion on playing gear - no one else's opinion matters on a topic like this.
Maybe you like wearing skorts but 100% of girls and women will choose to train and play in a pair of shorts before a skort.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1381 - 08/05/2025 06:21:14    2607505

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Replying To boxtyburgerbuns:  "Two motions to introduce shorts in camogie were defeated well in last year's camogie congress. That is all that matters. And if they are unhappy at these democratic votes then perhaps a change to another sport is needed I feel."
If their game is brought to the ultimate conclusion this week end and democracy is replaced with defiance that is not in anyone's best interest.
It straight away brings to mind the famous line from the Lidl ad they had entitled "Level the playing field" saying, "Its not over 'till we say its over' democracy again kicked into touch.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3178 - 08/05/2025 09:02:20    2607519

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "It was all that was required for your delusional post."
At that particular hour

bláthach (Leitrim) - Posts: 76 - 08/05/2025 09:19:47    2607530

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "A delegates job is to vote on behalf of the county when at Congress. Not vote based on personal preference.
To do that job properly, you have to find out what each club wants. Each club should ask it's players about a motion on playing gear - no one else's opinion matters on a topic like this.
Maybe you like wearing skorts but 100% of girls and women will choose to train and play in a pair of shorts before a skort."
But that's my point. How is a delegate to know what players etc want if they're not told? Equally if clubs are asking what's wanted and players don't bother showing up etc who's at fault? It's the same thing with football and hurling. This idea that clubs etc are somehow mind readers is in itself an issue.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1617 - 08/05/2025 09:29:00    2607532

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It would be most amusing if the special Congress votes to retain the skorts

boxtyburgerbuns (Leitrim) - Posts: 284 - 08/05/2025 09:50:07    2607539

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Here's a thing. I'm assuming the Camogie Association works like the GAA, in that every single member of the association has the chance to have a voice on motions going to Congress.

Say for example there was a motion going to GAA Congress that men had to wear skorts too, and our players were 99% against it (would probably be un-PC to tell you about the odd man out!). Here's what would happen:
- Congress motions would be circulated to clubs well in advance of Congress itself.
- Club would discuss them at a meeting, listen to the Players' Rep on this one, and mandate the County Board delegate to vote against it when it comes up for discussion there.
- Assuming the majority of other clubs felt the same, County Board would oppose the motion, and mandate its delegates to Congress to vote against it there.
- And assuming the majority of counties felt the same and did the same, the motion would be lost.

If something broke down along the way as the shorts/skorts motion made its way to Camogie Congress, then either:
- Delegates didn't vote the way they were supposed to, or
- Players didn't sufficiently make their voices heard when they had the opportunity.

There's a strong chance it was the second one. Players often don't pay attention to motions for County Conventions and Congress, even when those motions could end up affecting them directly.

Something I don't understand is that since the motion was lost at Camogie Congress in April 2024, why it's taken over a year for the players to make a stand. Every single one of the players who wore shorts last weekend, who are wearing them this week in Dublin club matches, and who intend to wear them next weekend in Cork v Waterford, wore skorts as normal last year.

What's changed now, to bring it to a head?"
This is a question I posed a number of posts back. Whilst I fully support the ladies right to choose, I believe there's an ulterior agenda in the background. I'd love to know what it is.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1299 - 08/05/2025 09:54:07    2607540

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Replying To supersub15:  "If their game is brought to the ultimate conclusion this week end and democracy is replaced with defiance that is not in anyone's best interest.
It straight away brings to mind the famous line from the Lidl ad they had entitled "Level the playing field" saying, "Its not over 'till we say its over' democracy again kicked into touch."
What do you mean by the "ultimate" conclusion, by definition a conclusion is ultimate?
It's not undemocratic to use whatever law abiding means available to get change.
The teams, Cork and Waterford have clearly stated that they are willing to accept the consequences of breaking the rule so then it will be up to the camogie authority to enforce the rule (or not).
If the association decides to allow the game go ahead is the association acting undemocratically, I don't think so.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 884 - 08/05/2025 09:56:10    2607542

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Replying To boxtyburgerbuns:  "It would be most amusing if the special Congress votes to retain the skorts"
You wouldn't be surprised with how they would vote…:

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3814 - 08/05/2025 13:29:08    2607594

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Replying To Square_B:  "This is a question I posed a number of posts back. Whilst I fully support the ladies right to choose, I believe there's an ulterior agenda in the background. I'd love to know what it is."
There is rarely a great conspiracy.
The rule is so ridiculous the players likely didn't get too involved at the time - assuming that the rule would be abolished
That didn't go well - so they objected via the GPA - that got no where - so now there is a standoff.

The camogie association just need to cop on and change the rule asap - they will find that once Cork hold tough - all the others will hold tough - no point winning and All Ireland camogie title if Cork aren't in it.

Get an online EGM up an running for next week - ask the players to hold off until thats over - vote for freedom of choice and away we go, back to business as usual where no one ever talks about camogie.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1381 - 08/05/2025 13:34:16    2607599

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