National Forum

Monaghan GAA thread

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To monaghan_ultra:  "Some people just love to give out.

Is the new system perfect? No
Is the new system a hell of a lot better than previous incarnations of the championship? Most definitely

I can't understand how supporters could be opposed to having more games to follow their team in. This season Monaghan will play a minimum of 12 top level games (7 League, 2 Ulster Championship & 3 All-Ireland Series).

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Sean Cavanagh on the Sunday Game! After 2 weekends in the All-Ireland series we had 8 games:

Draws x3, 1 Point Win x 1, 2 Point Win x 1, 3 Point Win x 1, 5 Point Win x 2 and he had nothing positive to say and unfortunately too many people buy in to the negativity of him and others.

In all but 2 games the result could have changed with a single score by a particular team.

We have the competitive Championship that we've been crying out for years but that still isn't enough for some."
The problem is the bigger team aren't taking this serious, the smaller team yes, so it's very hard to judge. We all know the 4 teams who won't make it, so the edge is definitely missing.

I agree its good to have more games, maybe the top 2 go thru would make it alot better, its also diluting the championship look at Derry, Kerry & Dublin who all won, but all the teams apart from Galway looked off the pace.

There is definitely teams treating these like challenge matches as they only need to beat a poorer team and they are in the next round, they are saving players and training accordingly

patmouse (Monaghan) - Posts: 112 - 30/05/2023 13:18:41    2482874

Link

New format does need to be a top two finish in group stages, it will add more days like clones in 2018 v kerry. Think of the pressure dublin would be on this week if it was a top two finish playing kildare. Days of provincials meaning anything are over in the grander scheme of things unless you are a division 3 or 4 team. Our games need more acesss via media as well, and more conveniant match fees for crowds, it will draw more people to games and boost coverage.

222 (UK) - Posts: 693 - 30/05/2023 13:32:44    2482882

Link

In the 23 years since straight knockout was abolished, 11 different counties have played in the All Ireland final and 7 different winners have emerged.
In the 23 years before that, 11 different counties played in the All ireland final and 8 different winners emerged.
Does straight knockout result in more 'shock' winners? The stats would say no.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1057 - 30/05/2023 13:50:38    2482887

Link

Replying To patmouse:  "
Replying To monaghan_ultra:  "Some people just love to give out.

Is the new system perfect? No
Is the new system a hell of a lot better than previous incarnations of the championship? Most definitely

I can't understand how supporters could be opposed to having more games to follow their team in. This season Monaghan will play a minimum of 12 top level games (7 League, 2 Ulster Championship & 3 All-Ireland Series).

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Sean Cavanagh on the Sunday Game! After 2 weekends in the All-Ireland series we had 8 games:

Draws x3, 1 Point Win x 1, 2 Point Win x 1, 3 Point Win x 1, 5 Point Win x 2 and he had nothing positive to say and unfortunately too many people buy in to the negativity of him and others.

In all but 2 games the result could have changed with a single score by a particular team.

We have the competitive Championship that we've been crying out for years but that still isn't enough for some."
The problem is the bigger team aren't taking this serious, the smaller team yes, so it's very hard to judge. We all know the 4 teams who won't make it, so the edge is definitely missing.

I agree its good to have more games, maybe the top 2 go thru would make it alot better, its also diluting the championship look at Derry, Kerry & Dublin who all won, but all the teams apart from Galway looked off the pace.

There is definitely teams treating these like challenge matches as they only need to beat a poorer team and they are in the next round, they are saving players and training accordingly"
What evidence is there to support your assertion that the bigger teams aren't taking this serious?

I watched the All-Ireland Champions play the Division 1 league winners in the 1st game, both were 100% taking it serious. Straight afterwards I watched last year's losing All-Ireland finalists play the All-Ireland Champions of 2 years ago, there was absolutely nothing to suggest either were not taking it seriously.

I could go on but they were the opening 2 games of the new All-Ireland series involving the 4 teams who contested the last 2 All-Ireland finals. There are pundits who constantly talk down the game with no evidence to support their claims and people blindly row in behind them. They made the same claims about the Division 1 league final and have continued in the same vein since.

There can't be another sport whose supporters & pundits spread so much negativity about the game, it genuinely boggles the mind.

monaghan_ultra (None) - Posts: 211 - 30/05/2023 15:23:35    2482941

Link

Replying To patmouse:  "
Replying To monaghan_ultra:  "Some people just love to give out.

Is the new system perfect? No
Is the new system a hell of a lot better than previous incarnations of the championship? Most definitely

I can't understand how supporters could be opposed to having more games to follow their team in. This season Monaghan will play a minimum of 12 top level games (7 League, 2 Ulster Championship & 3 All-Ireland Series).

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Sean Cavanagh on the Sunday Game! After 2 weekends in the All-Ireland series we had 8 games:

Draws x3, 1 Point Win x 1, 2 Point Win x 1, 3 Point Win x 1, 5 Point Win x 2 and he had nothing positive to say and unfortunately too many people buy in to the negativity of him and others.

In all but 2 games the result could have changed with a single score by a particular team.

We have the competitive Championship that we've been crying out for years but that still isn't enough for some."
The problem is the bigger team aren't taking this serious, the smaller team yes, so it's very hard to judge. We all know the 4 teams who won't make it, so the edge is definitely missing.

I agree its good to have more games, maybe the top 2 go thru would make it alot better, its also diluting the championship look at Derry, Kerry & Dublin who all won, but all the teams apart from Galway looked off the pace.

There is definitely teams treating these like challenge matches as they only need to beat a poorer team and they are in the next round, they are saving players and training accordingly"
Honestly you should read over your post before posting it.
It is some loads of gibberish.

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 277 - 30/05/2023 19:09:41    2483016

Link

Replying To farneygael:  "
Replying To patmouse:  "[quote=monaghan_ultra:  "Some people just love to give out.

Is the new system perfect? No
Is the new system a hell of a lot better than previous incarnations of the championship? Most definitely

I can't understand how supporters could be opposed to having more games to follow their team in. This season Monaghan will play a minimum of 12 top level games (7 League, 2 Ulster Championship & 3 All-Ireland Series).

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Sean Cavanagh on the Sunday Game! After 2 weekends in the All-Ireland series we had 8 games:

Draws x3, 1 Point Win x 1, 2 Point Win x 1, 3 Point Win x 1, 5 Point Win x 2 and he had nothing positive to say and unfortunately too many people buy in to the negativity of him and others.

In all but 2 games the result could have changed with a single score by a particular team.

We have the competitive Championship that we've been crying out for years but that still isn't enough for some."
The problem is the bigger team aren't taking this serious, the smaller team yes, so it's very hard to judge. We all know the 4 teams who won't make it, so the edge is definitely missing.

I agree its good to have more games, maybe the top 2 go thru would make it alot better, its also diluting the championship look at Derry, Kerry & Dublin who all won, but all the teams apart from Galway looked off the pace.

There is definitely teams treating these like challenge matches as they only need to beat a poorer team and they are in the next round, they are saving players and training accordingly"
Honestly you should read over your post before posting it.
It is some loads of gibberish."]Pay no intention.......he's a Cavan man !

Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 350 - 31/05/2023 20:50:21    2483263

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "In the 23 years since straight knockout was abolished, 11 different counties have played in the All Ireland final and 7 different winners have emerged.
In the 23 years before that, 11 different counties played in the All ireland final and 8 different winners emerged.
Does straight knockout result in more 'shock' winners? The stats would say no."
Only 7x different winners since 2001 (last 22 years): Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Kerry, Cork, Dublin, Donegal...

MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 111 - 01/06/2023 13:00:07    2483351

Link

Replying To MrPBoylan:  "Only 7x different winners since 2001 (last 22 years): Galway, Armagh, Tyrone, Kerry, Cork, Dublin, Donegal..."
If you added in teams that lost finals there wouldn't be much more either I'd say?
Down, Mayo would meath be on the list?

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 277 - 01/06/2023 14:19:28    2483377

Link

Replying To farneygael:  "If you added in teams that lost finals there wouldn't be much more either I'd say?
Down, Mayo would meath be on the list?"
Correct, 10 out of 33 (NYC & London) teams making finals may seem bad but probably better than Premier League or European Cup in rugby?

MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 111 - 01/06/2023 16:16:29    2483411

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "In the 23 years since straight knockout was abolished, 11 different counties have played in the All Ireland final and 7 different winners have emerged.
In the 23 years before that, 11 different counties played in the All ireland final and 8 different winners emerged.
Does straight knockout result in more 'shock' winners? The stats would say no."
What about the 23 years before the straight knockout was abolished?

Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 144 - 01/06/2023 16:18:00    2483412

Link

Replying To monaghan_ultra:  "
Replying To patmouse:  "[quote=monaghan_ultra:  "Some people just love to give out.

Is the new system perfect? No
Is the new system a hell of a lot better than previous incarnations of the championship? Most definitely

I can't understand how supporters could be opposed to having more games to follow their team in. This season Monaghan will play a minimum of 12 top level games (7 League, 2 Ulster Championship & 3 All-Ireland Series).

I couldn't believe my ears when I heard Sean Cavanagh on the Sunday Game! After 2 weekends in the All-Ireland series we had 8 games:

Draws x3, 1 Point Win x 1, 2 Point Win x 1, 3 Point Win x 1, 5 Point Win x 2 and he had nothing positive to say and unfortunately too many people buy in to the negativity of him and others.

In all but 2 games the result could have changed with a single score by a particular team.

We have the competitive Championship that we've been crying out for years but that still isn't enough for some."
The problem is the bigger team aren't taking this serious, the smaller team yes, so it's very hard to judge. We all know the 4 teams who won't make it, so the edge is definitely missing.

I agree its good to have more games, maybe the top 2 go thru would make it alot better, its also diluting the championship look at Derry, Kerry & Dublin who all won, but all the teams apart from Galway looked off the pace.

There is definitely teams treating these like challenge matches as they only need to beat a poorer team and they are in the next round, they are saving players and training accordingly"
What evidence is there to support your assertion that the bigger teams aren't taking this serious?

I watched the All-Ireland Champions play the Division 1 league winners in the 1st game, both were 100% taking it serious. Straight afterwards I watched last year's losing All-Ireland finalists play the All-Ireland Champions of 2 years ago, there was absolutely nothing to suggest either were not taking it seriously.

I could go on but they were the opening 2 games of the new All-Ireland series involving the 4 teams who contested the last 2 All-Ireland finals. There are pundits who constantly talk down the game with no evidence to support their claims and people blindly row in behind them. They made the same claims about the Division 1 league final and have continued in the same vein since.

There can't be another sport whose supporters & pundits spread so much negativity about the game, it genuinely boggles the mind."]Absolutely brilliant post . I agree with everything you say.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 01/06/2023 16:46:04    2483418

Link

Replying To Jjoniel79:  "What about the 23 years before the straight knockout was abolished?"
By my count in the 23 years before the straight knockout was abolished you had 9 different winners and 13 different finalists, not a massive difference that way but still a few unexpected names in there that seem very far away from the big occasion now.

I think the cats out of the bag now in terms of professionalism. If you were to return to the straight knockout I think the big-f's-small principle would still stand and the 'big 4' would still steamroll all before them and it'd actually drive participation down in the weaker counties, as back in the straight knockout days there was that wee glimmer of hope but now theres no hope but at least there is a few days out on the county team. Straight knockout would just mean no hope and no days out!

I think the Dublin 6 in a row did a lot of damage for peoples perception of the game, and in the last 19 years you've had only 5 winners, with only 1 offs for Donegal and Cork thrown in there. If things go the way some people are saying here and Kerry, Tyrone and Dublin continue to dominate then the numbers will become very ugly.... However there are some signs of light, Kerry and Tyrone are faultering a bit and Dublin arent the force they were. Mayo are well overdue a win and Galway, Derry and Armagh are coming good in their own ways.

I do feel for the good of the game HQ should try take a more proactive role in the county committee's. While ours is doing quite well as we've been long punching above our weight - Its ridiculous that county's like Cork, Kildare, Meath and Offlay among others are struggling to compete in any real manor, given their populations. Look at what a bit of structure and willpower has done for Louth this year. And yes it took JP McManus's money to get into the mix and sort things out in Limerick - But really what happened is the right people were put in place and have been doing the hard work. You can restructure all you want at a championship but a rising tide lifts all boats and if the water (Sponsorship money + expertise) was spread out a bit the game as a whole would benefit massively.

Mickod88 (Monaghan) - Posts: 49 - 01/06/2023 16:58:19    2483424

Link

Replying To MrPBoylan:  "Correct, 10 out of 33 (NYC & London) teams making finals may seem bad but probably better than Premier League or European Cup in rugby?"
Amazingly the champions league in soccer and european rugby cup have been vastly more competitive in terms of teams that have competed the final and number of winners in comparison to the GAA over the last 23 years.

Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 144 - 01/06/2023 17:08:49    2483427

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "In the 23 years since straight knockout was abolished, 11 different counties have played in the All Ireland final and 7 different winners have emerged.
In the 23 years before that, 11 different counties played in the All ireland final and 8 different winners emerged.
Does straight knockout result in more 'shock' winners? The stats would say no."
The All Ireland doesn't do shock winners. Nothing comparable to Leicester winning the premiership.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2164 - 01/06/2023 17:38:41    2483431

Link

Replying To Jjoniel79:  "What about the 23 years before the straight knockout was abolished?"
Covered in the part beginning 'In the 23 years before that,', no?

TearsIn85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 194 - 01/06/2023 17:39:06    2483432

Link

Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "In the 23 years since straight knockout was abolished, 11 different counties have played in the All Ireland final and 7 different winners have emerged.
In the 23 years before that, 11 different counties played in the All ireland final and 8 different winners emerged.
Does straight knockout result in more 'shock' winners? The stats would say no."
It's not about shock winners…. The same 3/4 teams will end up at the latter stages of the All Ireland regardless of what system is used… All these extra games are to fool supporters into paying in to see absolute rubbish games that are of little to no importance… All these extra games put a huge financial burden on county boards and supporters with the end result been the same teams every year there at the end…. Just revert to a straight knockout system a put everyone out of their misery watching this ultra boring football championship… it's a sleep fest….!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1927 - 02/06/2023 07:43:25    2483490

Link

The new system is a fairer one.. It removes the Kerry\Dublin advantage of playing in weaker provinces.. Kerry losing to Mayo has put them at a major disadvantage this year.. they should now not top their group. they will have to play an extra match and go to the home of the group winners.. Not the easy route that they are used to..

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 801 - 02/06/2023 10:00:06    2483505

Link

Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "It's not about shock winners…. The same 3/4 teams will end up at the latter stages of the All Ireland regardless of what system is used… All these extra games are to fool supporters into paying in to see absolute rubbish games that are of little to no importance… All these extra games put a huge financial burden on county boards and supporters with the end result been the same teams every year there at the end…. Just revert to a straight knockout system a put everyone out of their misery watching this ultra boring football championship… it's a sleep fest….!"
It's a bit of a drag alright. What would you think of a championship similar to the minor one
Provincial winners play provincial losers from another province, would give teams in Leinster and Munster something to compete for. I would always follow the minor championship from provincial final onwards, it's a good competition no matter who is in it

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 02/06/2023 10:03:41    2483511

Link

Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "It's not about shock winners…. The same 3/4 teams will end up at the latter stages of the All Ireland regardless of what system is used… All these extra games are to fool supporters into paying in to see absolute rubbish games that are of little to no importance… All these extra games put a huge financial burden on county boards and supporters with the end result been the same teams every year there at the end…. Just revert to a straight knockout system a put everyone out of their misery watching this ultra boring football championship… it's a sleep fest….!"
I dont know about knocking the whole thing on the head now... But I will say that the last 20 years have been pretty grim reading for the competitiveness of the competition, 3 teams have passed it between eachother and have only been briefly punctuated by one off's in Cork and Donegal - who are both as close as ourselves to winning it again..

There needs to be work done in the larger counties though - clearly the county boards of Donegal, Cork, Kildare, Offlay, Meath and Westmeath are failing on a continuous basis given their massive populations and catchment areas. That a team like Louth can come along after a few years with good men in place and a good manager installed speaks volumes to the failings of others. The templates are there - Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone!

Even look at Limerick hurling - completely in the wilderness until JP McManus's money got involved. Now money and plenty of it surely helps but its not like they're out buying players. The money put the infastructers in place alright but it still took the work of a lot of good people to get them to where they are now.

HQ should be auditing the county boards of each county to see what structures are in place and offer them outside expertise to help improve the whole thing. You only have to look at the nonsense going on in Down and Donegal to see that some county boards are more focused on infighting and conniving than improving playing structures for the youth to help the county teams compete. A strong leadership from HQ coming down and stamping out all of this carry on would only inevitably improve the premier competitions and leave us with a spectacle worth watching!

When you take a look around the country though, it does leave you fairly glad that the good people finally took over the running of things in Monaghan after our decades in the wilderness. Our competing in and around the top table for a sustained 20 years in a credit to the work thats being done. Realistically given our population in comparison to others in the lower divisions we have no business putting it up to the likes of Tyrone, Armagh, Galway etc. While it still remains a pipe dream for us to maybe one day be in an All-Ireland final again, at least we're not totally crazy for dreaming!

Mickod88 (Monaghan) - Posts: 49 - 02/06/2023 10:06:18    2483512

Link

Best of luck to senior hurlers in Lory Meagher final in Croker tomorrow!

MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 111 - 02/06/2023 14:26:40    2483593

Link