Still no rugby clubs or schools for that matter in west Belfast, seems as though our kids have yet to get this rugby bug that seems so infectious!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/02/2016 15:44:04    1827838

"The drop in adult males playing the game from 24000 to 13000 in 6 years is a sign that rugby is now seen more as an entertainment 'product' to be consumed rather than a sport to be played for many"

There have been alarm bells ringing for the past few years in Wales rugby circles too where rugby it is the national sport. The Wales rugby brand & national team are BIG business there still but player numbers have dropped significantly. This is attributed somewhat to Swansea & Cardiff having larger profiles in the English soccer leagues as well as the major changes to the Welsh club game after the arrival of professionalism. I would also say that concerns about neck/spinal injuries, bulking up & most recently concussions/head trauma would put a lot of parents off their kids playing rugby but not necessarily off supporting it.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 24/02/2016 15:48:40    1827842

Bumpernet - was in belfast for Pro12 final and day before game took a very enjoyable stroll around the Shankill, East belfast and West belfast - none of these areas sturck me as rugby hotbeds ...their loss in my view!!

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 24/02/2016 16:21:54    1827858

tearintom the picture I have painted there is the reality, have a look at the IRFU annual accounts for playing numbers and it will support it completely. Your anecdotal evidence is different, and actually with a couple of high profile rugby internationals coming from Wexford I would well believe that rugby may be seeing increases in participation levels there, which obviously is no bad thing. Actually here are the rough figures, you can find the exact ones on the IRFU website if you wish. Total number of rugby players 2009: 160,000, in 2015 it is 161,000. Total male adult players 2009: 24,000, in 2015 it is 13,000. Total underage 2009, 26,000, in 2015 26,000. Total mini rugby 2009: 25,000, in 2015 it is 31,000. The gap in the middle is filled by those playing in schools - as far as I know if you do a single training session in school you are counted. So the only increase is in mini rugby players, and obviously tv has a huge influence on this age group - just look at how many kids will play tennis for the 2 weeks Wimbledon is on etc. The drop in adult males playing the game from 24000 to 13000 in 6 years is a sign that rugby is now seen more as an entertainment 'product' to be consumed rather than a sport to be played for many. It is a huge issue in rugby that many prominent rugby people are rightly concerned about, but if you just get your information from RTE you would think there are padded goalposts going up at every crossroads in the country!
Soma (UK) - Posts:1305 - 24/02/2016 15:30:01Rugby is affected like a lot of sports with significant dropoff in late teens/early 20s. That its a collision sport rather than contact means it can be harder to get people back playing.
You are incorrect in your assumption that if you do a single training session in school you are counted in those figures. Drop off has been highlighted by competitions structures/emigration etc etc

Still no rugby clubs or schools for that matter in west Belfast, seems as though our kids have yet to get this rugby bug that seems so infectious!
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1119 - 24/02/2016 15:44:04Ulster Rugby and all provinces are always trying to bring the sport to new areas link

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 24/02/2016 20:17:02    1827928

6 Nations is a major world event based on demographics. Look at the media and how much is it covered.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:10918 - 24/02/2016 13:29:50 

[dem-uh-graf-iks, dee-muh-] 

noun

The statistical data of a population, especially those showing average age, income, education, etc.


So, what you are saying is;
6 Nations is a major world event based on the statistical data of a population, especially those showing average age, income, education, etc.

Your link is to a list of tv channels that show 6nations matches, with no other statistics or relevant data, for example, viewing figures. In other words, irrelevant.

Have you any relevant statistical data to backup your claim that the 6nations is a major world sporting event?

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 24/02/2016 21:56:35    1827954

soma - Janesboro- I know of at least one rugby school where playing Irelands national sports is prohibited,
PLEASE FORWARD DETAILS OF THE SCHOOL INVOLVED- IS THE PROHIBITION DOCUMENTED SOMEWHERE IE IN THE SCHOOL RULEBOOK FOR EXAMPLE -PLEASE POST A LINK TO THIS AS WELL

and a number of more schools where it would never be considered because it is seen as a game not in keeping with the social status of these schools.
PLEASE SHOW ME EVIDENCE OF THIS - ARE THERE ANY SCHOOLS THAT PLAY GAA THAT DONT PLAY RUGBY OR SOCCER - IF THERE WERE WOULD YOU VIEW THIS AS BEING ELITISTS - I WOULDNT ID WOULD PUT IT DOWN TO FACTORS LIKE PERSONAL PREFERENCE, GEOGRAPHY, TRADITION

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/02/2016 09:39:05    1827968

another day gone by and not one single suggestion or bit of proactivity to help GAA coverage, its all anti rugby anti rte etc etc

in regard to womens sports i note that the two of the most popular womens sports are tennis and athletics, in both sport the women get as much kudos as the men, maybe this may be due to the fact that the main events for men and women are run together - you could say run as one - rugby do the same for the six nations which really helps the coverage - maybe GAA could look at doing same i.e. double headers play, camogie final prior to all ireland semi or all ireland under 21 final, maybe as part of triple header even

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/02/2016 09:43:44    1827969

Janesboro the irony is not lost on me that in one post you ask for details which could be construed as anti-rugby, and in the next post you moan about the thread being too much anti-rugby! I understand from having university friends who went there that in Castleknock College, one of the country's main rugby schools and obviously a fee-paying school, it is compulsory for all students to play rugby in the first 2 years and that the playing of Gaelic Games there was prohibited around about the time Ireland won independence. Wikipedia seems to confirm this, I do hope that source meets your rigid standards:)
I would suggest that having the mens and womens finals on alternate Sundays in September is similar to how tennis do things and works perfectly fine. With the womens football final having the highest attendance for a female sporting event in Europe in 2015 I don't know why you would want to change things. The camogie final also gets a very respectable attendance. The womens games stand up on their own just fine, no need to put forward a suggestion that they should be added to a mens game to gain some credibility. What would really boost the games actually, now that I think about it, would be if they got some reasonable exposure on RTE, maybe someone should start a thread about it!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/02/2016 10:41:51    1827989

Bumpernet - was in belfast for Pro12 final and day before game took a very enjoyable stroll around the Shankill, East belfast and West belfast - none of these areas sturck me as rugby hotbeds ...their loss in my view!!

Jane, its no coincidence that theyre working class areas

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/02/2016 10:50:44    1827994

So, what you are saying is;
6 Nations is a major world event based on the statistical data of a population, especially those showing average age, income, education, etc.
Your link is to a list of tv channels that show 6nations matches, with no other statistics or relevant data, for example, viewing figures. In other words, irrelevant.
Have you any relevant statistical data to backup your claim that the 6nations is a major world sporting event?
extranjero (Wexford) - Posts:45 - 24/02/2016 21:56:35BBC Sport website got more traffic during a 6 Nations than during the London 2012 Olympics....
link

soma - Janesboro- I know of at least one rugby school where playing Irelands national sports is prohibited,
PLEASE FORWARD DETAILS OF THE SCHOOL INVOLVED- IS THE PROHIBITION DOCUMENTED SOMEWHERE IE IN THE SCHOOL RULEBOOK FOR EXAMPLE -PLEASE POST A LINK TO THIS AS WELL
and a number of more schools where it would never be considered because it is seen as a game not in keeping with the social status of these schools.
PLEASE SHOW ME EVIDENCE OF THIS - ARE THERE ANY SCHOOLS THAT PLAY GAA THAT DONT PLAY RUGBY OR SOCCER - IF THERE WERE WOULD YOU VIEW THIS AS BEING ELITISTS - I WOULDNT ID WOULD PUT IT DOWN TO FACTORS LIKE PERSONAL PREFERENCE, GEOGRAPHY, TRADITION
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:214 - 25/02/2016 09:39:05 Janesboro great post as always but any chance you couldn't shout... use capitals.
I totally agree with you....

another day gone by and not one single suggestion or bit of proactivity to help GAA coverage, its all anti rugby anti rte etc etc
in regard to womens sports i note that the two of the most popular womens sports are tennis and athletics, in both sport the women get as much kudos as the men, maybe this may be due to the fact that the main events for men and women are run together - you could say run as one - rugby do the same for the six nations which really helps the coverage - maybe GAA could look at doing same i.e. double headers play, camogie final prior to all ireland semi or all ireland under 21 final, maybe as part of triple header even
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:214 - 25/02/2016 09:43:44 another good point or two made...

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 25/02/2016 10:52:09    1827996

'Ulster Rugby and all provinces are always trying to bring the sport to new areas link'

I'll refer you to my initial point that there are still no clubs in west Belfast regardless of potential outreach programmes.

This link btw is about a coaching session which was at least a year or 2 ago as I remember the bbc making a big fuss about it on the news!

Theyre similar to rte in this respect, Jerome Quinn will tell you all about their rugby priorities

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/02/2016 10:57:22    1827998

thanks ormondbannerman - just use the caps to differentiate , too lazy to press the bold button!!!

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/02/2016 11:33:28    1828019

The GAA is doing ok. Personally I think there should be more use of An Ghaeilge. Afterall it is the Gaelic Athletic Association.
RTE Sunday Game should have a 5 minute piece "as Ghaeilge" in my opinion. Also all GAA clubs should try and use Gaelic in their names.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2611 - 25/02/2016 11:42:07    1828023

'Ulster Rugby and all provinces are always trying to bring the sport to new areas link'
I'll refer you to my initial point that there are still no clubs in west Belfast regardless of potential outreach programmes.
This link btw is about a coaching session which was at least a year or 2 ago as I remember the bbc making a big fuss about it on the news!
Theyre similar to rte in this respect, Jerome Quinn will tell you all about their rugby priorities
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1121 - 25/02/2016 10:57:22 But Ulster are making attempts to bring rugby to a wider audience just like all the provinces

thanks ormondbannerman - just use the caps to differentiate , too lazy to press the bold button!!!
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:215 - 25/02/2016 11:33:28 I know you are doing it to differentiate but its shouting needlessly. Use capitals to emphasise a point but not all the time. Use bold/different colour font etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 25/02/2016 11:52:24    1828028

Fair dues soma - at last i get a response backed up with facts , (are you watching sceptical) , although I dont think that having one school in the whole country which prohibits GAA shows the the sport is littered with elitism and snobbery . unless there are other schools which do the same , are there any schools who play GAA only and have no rugby or soccer, ard scoil ris in limerick do very well at both hurling and rugby. By the way i dont agree that any sport should be expressly prohibited in a school.

I have played club rugby and GAA in limerick and dublin and travelled all around ireland playing and supporting both- i go to games and coach most weeks (both hurling and rugby) i go- not one have i come accross any issue with snobbery or elitism in either GAA or rugby

AS for having mens and womens finals separate fair enough your right - maybe earlier games or womens league games could be done as double header, finals in camogie and ladies football are shown its the earlier games which dont be as well attended that need more coverage and may benefit from double headers (it might be a rubbish suggestion but at least i am putting forward some ideas )

What would really boost the games actually, now that I think about it, would be if they got some reasonable exposure on RTE, maybe someone should start a thread about it! - yes soma maybe they should (coz this thread is more anti rte anti rugby) - and maybe an auld idea or two to assist such reasonable exposure would be nice

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/02/2016 12:00:45    1828038

Jane, its no coincidence that theyre working class areas --bumpernut (Antrim)

Well there are working class areas in Limerick which have vibrant rugby clubs (all of which have good GAA clubs too with a fairly decent crossover of players/fans)
eg dooradoyle - GArryowen, and old crescent, ballinacurra, roundwood, janesboro - Young Munster,
thomondgate/moyross - Thomond, Garryowen area- Richmond , the parish - Shannon ,also theres Bruff, Abbeyfeale , galbally,

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/02/2016 12:04:41    1828041

Lads if ye think rugby is snobby and elitist - go a watch a club game in limerick - in fact watch a club game anywhere at any level, no elitism or snobbery there im afraid

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 25/02/2016 12:12:38    1828046

ARE THERE ANY SCHOOLS THAT PLAY GAA THAT DONT PLAY RUGBY OR SOCCER - IF THERE WERE WOULD YOU VIEW THIS AS BEING ELITISTS - I WOULDNT ID WOULD PUT IT DOWN TO FACTORS LIKE PERSONAL PREFERENCE, GEOGRAPHY, TRADITION

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:214 - 25/02/2016 09:39:05

When I was in secondary school,there was football and hurling, but no soccer. Any lunchtime you could go out to the playing fields and all anyone would be playing was soccer, but there was nobody in the school prepared to organise a team, despite requests from many students. Some might call it elitist, I felt it was more just the remnants of the old anti-foreign sport attitude. Either way, I think it was an unfair policy. (thankfully they started soccer teams the year after I left)

As regards no GAA in schools, I witnessed some of this while living in south Dublin a few years back. First off, the local hurling club didn't own any grounds, and had alot of problems with renting pitches in the area, according to the club secretary it was local residents from the rugby club who could refuse access to pitches. Although the grounds were public, there was already contracts with the rugby club, so they had a say on new tenants.
Similarly, some of the players from the hurling club (originally from traditional hurling areas/counties) were teachers in local schools. After several students expressed an interest in hurling, the teachers asked the schools if they could train the kids in hurling. The answer was always an unequivocal "No!". Several of the hurling club members were from Munster, and they all seemed a little taken aback by the vitriolic local response to what was only a sports club.
(Janesboro, I am not providing names on individuals or clubs/schools, as most of this information I received "off the record", and I would not like to get any of the sources in trouble).

Having also lived in Cork and Waterford, my point is there's a bit of a difference in attitudes between Munster rugby and, as some have experienced, "Leinster" rugby.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 25/02/2016 12:16:59    1828047

Janesboro, my local grammar school does not participate in organised Gaelic Games . I am not sure if coaching takes place in the school .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 25/02/2016 12:28:29    1828053

Janesboro firstly fair play to you on your coaching of hurling and rugby, such volunteerism in Ireland is something you do not get in many other countries and should be recognised as something for the country to be proud of.
However to suggest that the school I mentioned is the only one in Ireland where gaelic games is prohibited, either explicitly or implicitly, is naiive in the extreme. Spend a while walking around the universities of Dublin in your Limerick jersey and listen to the number of references you will hear to 'bogball' and 'stickball'. Walk around anywhere in Ireland in your Munster jersey and no notice will be taken.
I like that when anyone who would like to see gaelic games get some extra exposure on RTE makes a point you immediately demand sources, but Ormo posts a link to viewership figures in the UK for a single day of the 6nations as proof of it being a major world sporting event and you let it pass without comment!
As for ideas on how to get a fairer balance on RTE of gaelic games coverage I would suggest it is time that camogie and ladies football had their own dedicated 30 minute show on during the summer which could have highlights, previews and interviews with what are some of Irelands finest female athletes, many of them bright ladies who could be a role-model for young girls. It is in the nations interest to get more young girls in particular involved in sport and to keep them involved - there is either a camogie or ladies football club in almost every corner of Ireland so why not promote the games and those who have reached the very top? If needs be, sacrifice the mens preview show to accommodate it in the schedule, though I would suggest there is ample opportunity to show it without having to do this.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/02/2016 12:47:29    1828064