agree Doyler, but the problem with an issue like this is its lopsided nature. A GAA ref or player using their position to advocate for pro Gay marriage is deemed a good thing. Imagine a senior inter county player expressing an opposition to this referendum. They'd be vilified and open to every kind of slur about homophobia, abusing their position to make a statement etc. Equality authority, labour party et all have a field day.
This refs sexuality is his own private business. Never should a man be demonised because of it. On that principle though, using his position to very obviously advocate for a pro gay marriage stance is simply wrong.
IMO this is what he was doing. quietly wearing his wristband and not telling anyone isn't going to generate any publicity. This whole thread wouldn't happen. its a social and political issue, not a GAA one....

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1117 - 10/03/2015 21:53:57    1701553

Haha "pushing the liberal agenda", I think you're watching far too much Fox news Doyler. Anyway you're right this is not a political forum which is why this thread is not titled 'Are you for or against gay marriage', we're debating something which happened within the Gaa and I actually happen to agree with you that sport and politics shouldn't mix and that the Gaa should stay neutral when it comes to referendums etc. Did you even bother to read any of the posts on this thread because if you did you'd realize that a lot of people (myself included) actually agree with you, I'm pretty sure judging by your first post that you just read the title of this thread and a red light went off.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 11/03/2015 10:14:36    1701594

Htaem
I was wondering aboot that as well. Who gave permission and then who rescinded permission. @ Thomas Clark. While the GAA has a responsibility to root out racism and discrimination within its own ranks it has no business becoming embroiled in divisive social issues such as the gay marriage referendum as many other posters have said.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 3051 - 11/03/2015 16:12:44    1701778

james2011
County: Wexford
Posts: 238

1701133
Which would be fine, if any and all political/ social agitation were treated in precisely the same manner. Concerning the analogy drawn between broader mental health issues and gay rights, I would say that there's a rather striking similarity in that far too many men of all sexual orientations end up taking their own lives at a young age.

In both cases, people within the GAA are taking a stand on contentious issues, in the belief that they are trying to change Irish society for the better. Would you not agree?

the analogy doesnt work though gleebo. There is no upcoming vote on mental health matters. Can you please tell me how wearing a jersey advising young men to talk, is a political movement.

I know you think its the GAA taking a stand on changing society for the better, but one is a health matter, one is a referendum and political matter. Whilst it would be great to have both being discussed, its not the GAAs place to be involved in upcoming political events. Not should they.

You conveniently missed my other comments. How would you feel if a referee wore and anti abortion wristband, and a different referee wore a pro choice wristband. Do you think that should be allowed? And where does it stop? Can referees wear the wristband of their political party?

Because public health, like a lot of social issues, is also intensely political. Public health priorities wax and wane according to the ideological composition of the Government of the day. Dublin GAA got involved in social activism in displaying the Pieta message (which I support) and in doing so, implicitly recognised that men do not get adequate support in our society. There is a reason that a lot of organisations have sprung up to promote men's physical and emotional health (like Movember, for example): men's illnesses struggle for funding in comparison with feminine health issues.

Gough made an individual decision to wear that wristband. What the GAA are saying is that they can take a political stance on issues, but individual members can't. Would the issue have cropped up if Gough had worn a black and white wristband to demonstrate anti-racism sentiment? Or if he had worn a pink one to highlight breast cancer awareness?

I'm not swayed by the referendum argument. Anyone who changes their opinion just because a GAA ref or whoever wore a certain garment didn't think too deeply about the issues to start with, IMO. In any case, there is a media moratorium for 24 hours before a referendum, which provides plenty of space for those voting to gather their thoughts.

I'm actually pretty open when it comes to free speech: if we allow certain forms of freedom of expression then we should allow them all, with the exception of incitment to violence, incitement to breaking the law etc. I live in a country which criminalises the expression of some (admittedly awful) opinions due to historical events, and I prefer to see and hear all shades of opinion.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 11/03/2015 16:38:52    1701792

lilywhite1
County: Kildare
Posts: 2199

@ Thomas Clark. While the GAA has a responsibility to root out racism and discrimination within its own ranks it has no business becoming embroiled in divisive social issues such as the gay marriage referendum as many other posters have said.
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I didn't say that the GAA should take a stand on the gay marriage referendum, but I did say that they should, among other things, use the Association#s profile to raise awareness about bullying of and discrimination against the LGBT community. Two different things, though you appear to have read them as one and the same.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 11/03/2015 17:33:01    1701820

Thomas Clarke
County: Tyrone
Posts: 713
Apologies Thomas Clark for misreading your comment. I haven't read of any bullying and discrimination of and against the LGBT community.Is it widespread?

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 3051 - 11/03/2015 18:43:23    1701840

The rainbow wristband is a symbol of gay pride not yes for any political purposes.
My issue is told yes then no. Just one thing after may and whichever way vote goes, would anybody have a problem with a ref wearing such a symbol to donate equality???/.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/03/2015 19:44:22    1701849

MesAmis,a point of information: you use the words "equality" and "discrimination" in a particular way but the way you use those words is completely different to the meaning and definition that many other people would have of them. Wont say any more on that cos obviously any further comment would definitely non be suitable to this forum

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2062 - 11/03/2015 21:38:27    1701889

lilywhite1
County: Kildare
Posts: 2200

Apologies Thomas Clark for misreading your comment. I haven't read of any bullying and discrimination of and against the LGBT community.Is it widespread?
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Yes, sadly, it is. But don't worry, there is a referendum coming up soon that will eradicate part of it, I'm sure you'll be delighted to hear.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 11/03/2015 21:51:22    1701895

MesAmis

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who said I wasn't in favour of equality and against discrimination ?? That's got nothing to do with it.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 12/03/2015 09:47:27    1701920

Doylerwex
County: Wexford
Posts: 989

1701920
MesAmis

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who said I wasn't in favour of equality and against discrimination ?? That's got nothing to do with it.

I certainly didn't say that.

I merely questioned your assertion that this issue is "highly sensitive".

It really isn't at all. The media are trying everyday to make it a sensitive issue by giving air time to a small minority but in reality most people don't really care and want to see their friends, sisters, brothers etc treating equally.

It may have been a "sensitive issue" in decades past but it is no more.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 12/03/2015 10:23:38    1701933

Is this the same "minority" that Dublin and the media always consider the other 3 million people in Ireland to be ? When the referendum is taking place I just feel it would be very undemocratic of the GAA to use it's position to show favour to either side. We won't know how the electorate views it until the counts are in. I was delighted to hear the official hasn't suffered at all within the GAA but it's not the medium for political statements where voting is concerned.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 12/03/2015 10:52:11    1701963

did I read somewhere that a GAA spokesman said that GAA is a non-political organisation and should not get involved in politics.

That's got to be the joke of the century. Are the Catholic Church still running this country ?. Have they put pressure on the GAA over this issue ?. Would Anthony Rainbow be allowed to play if he was still togging out ?.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 12/03/2015 11:11:22    1701977

Doylerwex
County: Wexford
Posts: 991

1701963
Is this the same "minority" that Dublin and the media always consider the other 3 million people in Ireland to be ?

Very confused by this????

3 million is not a minority. What are you on about? Are you suggesting that I consider the 3 million outside of Dublin to be 1) a small minority and 2) likely to be against equality? I think nothing of the sort and very much take exception to your comments and your suggestion that the people outside of Dublin are any more likely to be intolerant just because of where they live.

The minority I'm talking about (opposed to whatever you're on about) are scattered in every corner of the country. The majority are also in every corner of the country.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 12/03/2015 11:26:06    1701981

MesAmis

Wasn't making any accusations towards anybody there except the media and government. You're reading between lines that aren't even there. What has intolerance got to do with anything ? Where are you getting your majorities and minorities from ?? assumptions ? I said we won't know what's what until the numbers are in. This has still got nothing to do with the subject matter. The GAA made the right call. Interfering with a referendum had nothing to do with equality, intolerance or discrimination as you keep suggesting. Unless I'm taking you up wrong ?

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 12/03/2015 11:50:59    1701987

Would agree with mes. I know plenty of people vast majority heterosexual a few gay, and majority would be voting in favor of this, i am actually agreeing that sport and politics don't mix, and in saying so i firmly believe that no convicted criminal should get release for a gaa match. Lets hope common since prevails in all aspects of this and lets hope the gaa make it clear that the would not welcome anyone getting released from prison to attend a match

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/03/2015 11:53:00    1701989

Look mate. We'll leave it there. Not looking to have a row with anybody. IT's better not to make any assumptions and let the electorate decide. I wasn't making any accusations towards you either.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 12/03/2015 12:25:13    1701999

one more thing actually. equality, intolerance and discrimination are used in a very black and white context in reference to a very colourful issue. good luck

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 12/03/2015 12:27:07    1702000

Whats the big deal? Sure Carlow have been supporting LGBT rights for years now with their jerseys.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/03/2015 13:04:05    1702015

If this is the official policy then there's going to be some cull of club, stadium and trophy names in the event of a border poll. It's not really fair to compare the IRB-run GAA with the corporate model we have now but if it's still on paper that the GAA wants a nation to be able to live its own life and govern its own affairs then that should hold for its citizens too.

I agree with Gleebo that most of the non-sporting schemes run from GHQ are political actions by default, promoting public health as an organisation rather than leaving it up to individuals is part of a certain ideological approach. Croke Park has a right to bury their heads in the sand on more controversial issues if they want to but why not just be honest about it rather than pretending it's a neutral organisation?

Benandonner (Antrim) - Posts: 459 - 12/03/2015 13:52:41    1702035