But the GAA has always been political as well as a sporting organization , so to now start saying that it is apolitical is just nonsense to be honest , IMO it only becomes apolitical when it suits them

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 09/03/2015 15:39:39    1700936

Gleebo
The fact that there are many politicians from all levels and different parties involved in the GAA does not make it a political organisation. All politicians leave their party politics behind them when they enter their local GAA club. Politicans of all persuasions unite for the good of their club/county. However any of us who have been involved in any way within the GAA know that there is internal politics within the organisation.Indeed it has been said that there is more politics in the GAA than in Dail Eireann. As an organisation the GAA generally is apolitical. Any of the afore mentioned politicians involved in the GAA do not campaign within their GAA clubs for political support though having a profile within their club probably does their election chances no harm.
Tinryland how in your opinion did the GAA not help to heal the wounds of the Civil War? An example of the healing process was the Kerry All- Ireland winning teams in the 1920's who featured players who had fought on different sides in the Civil War. I'm sure that there are plenty of other examples from many counties.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 3051 - 09/03/2015 15:39:56    1700938

lilywhite1

Do hetrosexual referees wear wristbands declaring that they are straight? No of course not. A referees sexuality should be a private matter.

That's not the same thing though is, I mean how many times have you been discriminated against for being hetrosexual (presuming you are)? I'm gonna guess none, I now I haven't anyway.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 09/03/2015 16:18:50    1700966

IMO opinion the GAA use of the ban alienated people , the GAA has always had the opinion that if someone is not part of the the GAA that they are less Irish , this attitude still prevails as can be seen on here every week just read John Giles book , dont forget that the GAA banned Douglas Hyde from the organization , the only other country that had these type of rules was apartheid South Africa

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 09/03/2015 16:30:40    1700975

The media are going into an LGBT overdrive these days. It's rare indeed that you don't hear a story almost daily linked to this issue. But never did I think I'd see the GAA dragged into all this.

As for the decision to not allow it, a correct decision. We are a non-political organisation. This is a political issue. You can't change the law without politicians. The upcoming marriage referendum attempts to alter the wording of the Constitution, that is a political issue. So a correct call by the GAA. It would set a precedent which could cause too many complications down the line.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 09/03/2015 16:31:43    1700976

Ned_Stormcrow the GAA are not non political and never have been , even though they are right to ban the referee using the excuse of the GAA being non political is just plain Hypocritical

tinrylandman (Carlow) - Posts: 387 - 09/03/2015 16:41:23    1700980

Its a bit muddled. Like hteam, I'm a bit confused as to why he was initially granted permission to wear it, and then refused permission at the 11th hour. The rainbow band is a gay pride symbol, it doesn't necessarily say anything about the gay marriage referendum. Now, to be fair, I have read in reports that he said he planned to wear it to show support for a Yes vote in the upcoming referendum. Which, at face value seems fine, I'd support a yes vote as well. But, I guess from the GAA's standpoint, if they let someone wear a symbol to support the referendum, they couldn't stop someone wearing a symbol that campaigned against gay marriage either, if someone wanted to do that subsequently. Then it all gets messy.
But, if that's the actual reason, then why was he granted permission in the first place? The 11th hour turnaround seems odd.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 09/03/2015 16:45:52    1700987

tinrylandman
County: Carlow
Posts: 358

1700975
IMO opinion the GAA use of the ban alienated people , the GAA has always had the opinion that if someone is not part of the the GAA that they are less Irish , this attitude still prevails as can be seen on here every week just read John Giles book , dont forget that the GAA banned Douglas Hyde from the organization , the only other country that had these type of rules was apartheid South Africa

Of course the GAA ban alienated people. It was a stupid thing to do but it was a long time ago. You're going back to the 1940s with your examples, however bad they were.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 09/03/2015 16:48:03    1700989

james2011
County: Wexford
Posts: 237

1700914
Gleebo,

Could you please explain to me how a team promoting health awareness issues, particularly in suicide in young men, is the same politically as advocating a yes vote in the upcoming same sex marriage referendum? How is the Pieta house a political message, at all? They are not comparable.

If you agree with Gough wearing a gay pride wristband in advance of the referendum, then would you agree with someone wearing a similar wristband against gay rights?

Would you agree with someone wearing a pro choice wristband? Or would you agree with someone wearing an abortion kills wristband?

Some things should remain away from the field of play. Upcoming referendums is certainly one thing that should be exempt (even if I do agree with the referee, and admire him for his stance, I think some things should be kept separate.)

Which would be fine, if any and all political/ social agitation were treated in precisely the same manner. Concerning the analogy drawn between broader mental health issues and gay rights, I would say that there's a rather striking similarity in that far too many men of all sexual orientations end up taking their own lives at a young age.

In both cases, people within the GAA are taking a stand on contentious issues, in the belief that they are trying to change Irish society for the better. Would you not agree?

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 09/03/2015 17:18:46    1701002

zinny
County: Wexford
Posts: 231

1700935
Gleebo

How do you consider the opening preamble political? The GAA is the National Sports organization dedicated to promoting and preserving national games and secondly the Irish language - would you say that even that is political? perhaps these days it is.

At the time it was written, the preamble was subversive, and espouses a philosophy which is very clearly Irish-Ireland and nationalist in origin. I'm not against that, but given the Ireland's history, of course it's a political statement.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 09/03/2015 17:21:48    1701005

lilywhite1
County: Kildare
Posts: 2195

1700938
Gleebo
The fact that there are many politicians from all levels and different parties involved in the GAA does not make it a political organisation. All politicians leave their party politics behind them when they enter their local GAA club. Politicans of all persuasions unite for the good of their club/county. However any of us who have been involved in any way within the GAA know that there is internal politics within the organisation.Indeed it has been said that there is more politics in the GAA than in Dail Eireann. As an organisation the GAA generally is apolitical. Any of the afore mentioned politicians involved in the GAA do not campaign within their GAA clubs for political support though having a profile within their club probably does their election chances no harm.
Tinryland how in your opinion did the GAA not help to heal the wounds of the Civil War? An example of the healing process was the Kerry All- Ireland winning teams in the 1920's who featured players who had fought on different sides in the Civil War. I'm sure that there are plenty of other examples from many counties.

I think you're being a touch naive if you think that every GAA person leaves their political baggage behind them when they step on to a GAA field. I know of several prominent GAA figures who used the Association as a launchpad for their political ambitions, and vice versa. I work in politics, so I am familiar with the territory. A lack of overt party-politics present in the everyday workings of the Association doesn't mean that the GAA can't take a political stance on divisive issues, be they at local or national level.

As you say, the GAA is an intensely political domain in and of itself, where arcane knowledge of the rulebook goes a very long way indeed.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 09/03/2015 17:30:37    1701007

Even if the ref wore a wristband supporting a yes vote that doesn't mean that the GAA are endorsing a yes vote, it's up to individuals how they want to vote.

If Donal Óg is on League Sunday wearing a vote yes wristband would RTE be seen as supporting a yes vote?

Co-incidentally by not being permitted to wear that wristband I'd say that ref has created far more publicity than if he had worn it. Fair play to him

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8193 - 09/03/2015 17:42:39    1701012

It was encouraging to read that the referee has had no negative experiences in the game since revealing his sexuality, it reflects very well on our games and is no less than I would have expected. However no surprise to see that some posters have used Croke Parks sensible decision on the wristband as an opportunity to attack the organisation.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 09/03/2015 18:20:29    1701032

tinrylandman
County: Carlow
Posts: 358

1700980
Ned_Stormcrow the GAA are not non political and never have been , even though they are right to ban the referee using the excuse of the GAA being non political is just plain Hypocritical

You are correct. The GAA is a nationalist organisation. Thats political. But come on man, seriously, you're scraping the barrell. It's been years since the GAA did anything political, you're going back to the foundations of the state. Nowadays we are apolitical.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 09/03/2015 18:25:25    1701033

Ned_Stormcrow
The GAA is a Nationalist organisation You mean in a narrow minded Northern Catholic sense?
I Can't relate the GAA of which I am a member with that statement at all. From my part of the world they are first and foremost a sports organisation end off. What Religion, Race, Creed or sex you are is totally irrelevant and that is all that matters. The GAA and clubs support all manner of organisations usually in a fundraising capacity, referendums, political messages, political parties don't fit into that catagory. If there was no referendum on the ref would be free to promote gay rights, if it was allowed it could get very messy. Far easier to ban it till referendum/elections are done and dusted. Otherwise the organisation will find itself having to "balance" things up and no one wants to be in that position.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4957 - 09/03/2015 19:09:37    1701046

Htaem

"That's not the same thing though is, I mean how many times have you been discriminated against for being hetrosexual (presuming you are)? I'm gonna guess none, I now I haven't anyway".

Neither have I Htaem but did you not say yourself in one of your previous posts that it is acceptable nowadays to be openly gay, that society accepts it compared to the past? Therefore the wearing of the wristband is not a protest against discrimination. The GAA in my opinion correctly viewed it as a political statement in view of the upcoming referendum and acted appropiately. It is the principle here that counts not the referees sexuality. I mean if David Gough wanted for example to wear a wristband supporting a political party, then the same principle would apply and he would be told not to wear it.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 3051 - 09/03/2015 19:12:13    1701048

lilywhite while being openly gay is more socially acceptable these days I certainly wouldn't say it's as acceptable as being heterosexual and of course they still don't have equality for example they still don't have equal marriage rights, not for the time being anyway so it is still a symbol of discrimination. But as I've said before I understand the Gaa's decision to stay neutral and I think it's probably better if they do stay neutral on political issues but again I am curious as to why he was initially granted permission and then refused, do you not find that a bit odd?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 09/03/2015 20:11:04    1701071

A few things my nosy head would love to know?

Why did Gough tell anyone he would wear such a wristband and not just go ahead and make his statement?

Who, organisations or individuals, contacted the GAA to object to him doing so.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8193 - 09/03/2015 20:56:11    1701096

I agree with the GAAs decision. Its not a political organisation (not these days anyway).

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 10/03/2015 09:24:27    1701132

Which would be fine, if any and all political/ social agitation were treated in precisely the same manner. Concerning the analogy drawn between broader mental health issues and gay rights, I would say that there's a rather striking similarity in that far too many men of all sexual orientations end up taking their own lives at a young age.

In both cases, people within the GAA are taking a stand on contentious issues, in the belief that they are trying to change Irish society for the better. Would you not agree?

the analogy doesnt work though gleebo. There is no upcoming vote on mental health matters. Can you please tell me how wearing a jersey advising young men to talk, is a political movement.

I know you think its the GAA taking a stand on changing society for the better, but one is a health matter, one is a referendum and political matter. Whilst it would be great to have both being discussed, its not the GAAs place to be involved in upcoming political events. Not should they.

You conveniently missed my other comments. How would you feel if a referee wore and anti abortion wristband, and a different referee wore a pro choice wristband. Do you think that should be allowed? And where does it stop? Can referees wear the wristband of their political party?

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 615 - 10/03/2015 09:25:51    1701133