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What if hurling mirrored the football format with a couple tweaks. Back to knockout provincials and then 16 teams in AISHC. There would also be 8 in the ring cup, 8 in the Rackard cup, 4 in the meagher cup and the 4 round 2B losers making up the mcdonagh cup…
This would give more counties a chance to compete against the best. If this happened this year Carlow and Westmeath would happen to be in the Christy Ring Cup despite usually every year being within the top 16 (allocation explained below).
This year could look like…
Provincials
Connacht SHC
Quarter-finals
1: Sligo v Lancashire
2: Roscommon v New York
3: Leitrim v London
4: Mayo v Warwickshire
Semi-finals
5: Winner 1 v Winner 2
6: Winner 3 v Winner 4
Final
7: Winner 5 v Winner 6
Leinster SHC
Preliminary round 1
1: Meath v Louth
2: Longford v Wicklow
Preliminary round 2
3: Carlow v Winner 1
4: Westmeath v Laois
5: Kildare v Winner 2
Quarter-finals
6: Galway v Dublin
7: Offaly v Winner 3
8: Wexford v Winner 4
9: Kilkenny v Winner 5
Semi-finals
10: Winner 6 v Winner 7
11: Winner 8 v Winner 9
Final
12: Winner 10 v Winner 11
Munster SHC
Quarter-finals
1: Kerry v Clare
2: Tipperary v Waterford
Semi-finals
3: Limerick v Winner 1
4: Cork v Winner 2
Final
5: Winner 3 v Winner 4
Ulster SHC
Preliminary round
1: Armagh v Cavan
2: Monaghan v Fermanagh
Quarter-finals
3: Donegal v Winner 1
4: Derry v Winner 2
5: Tyrone v Down
Semi-finals
6: Antrim v Winner 1
7: Winner 2 v Winner 3
Final
8: Winner 6 v Winner 7
All-Ireland SHC
Teams
Seeded
* Leinster champions (Galway)
* Munster champions (Cork)
* Ulster champions (Down)
* Leinster runners-up (Kilkenny)
* Munster runners-up (Limerick)
* Leinster semi-finalists (Offaly)
* Leinster semi-finalists (Wexford)
* Munster semi-finalists (Clare)
Unseeded
* Munster semi-finalists (Tipperary)
* Joe McDonagh Cup winners (Kildare)
* Christy Ring Cup winners (London)
* National Hurling League (Waterford)
* National Hurling League (Dublin)
* National Hurling League (Antrim)
* National Hurling League (Laois)
* National Hurling League (Kerry)
Round 1
1: Offaly v Kerry
2: Down v Dublin
3: Clare v Antrim
4: Wexford v Waterford
5: Kilkenny v Laois
6: Limerick v Tipperary
7: Galway v London
8: Cork v Kildare
Round 2
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
Round 3
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Quarter-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Joe McDonagh Cup
Group stage
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Final
TBD v TBD
Christy Ring Cup
Group A
Carlow 0
Donegal 0
Roscommon 0
Wicklow 0
Group B
Derry 0
Mayo 0
Meath 0
Westmeath 0
Relegation playoff
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Nicky Rackard Cup
Group A
Armagh 0
Longford 0
New York 0
Tyrone 0
Group B
Fermanagh 0
Leitrim 0
Louth 0
Sligo 0
Relegation playoff
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Lory Meagher Cup
Group stage
Cavan 0
Lancashire 0
Monaghan 0
Warwickshire 0
Final
TBD v TBD
Notes
- Galway remain in Leinster for competitive balance
- Have to win ulster to qualify to All Ireland
- Have to get to Leinster semis to qualify for AI
- Just have to win a Munster match to qualify
- No direct qualification from Connacht championship
- Previous years cup winners play grade higher
- Mcdonagh cup can be played on AI final day
- Ring and Rackard can be played on AI sf days
- Meagher cup can be played on AI QF day
GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 69 - 05/05/2026 15:33:11
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Replying To GaA247: "What if hurling mirrored the football format with a couple tweaks. Back to knockout provincials and then 16 teams in AISHC. There would also be 8 in the ring cup, 8 in the Rackard cup, 4 in the meagher cup and the 4 round 2B losers making up the mcdonagh cup…
This would give more counties a chance to compete against the best. If this happened this year Carlow and Westmeath would happen to be in the Christy Ring Cup despite usually every year being within the top 16 (allocation explained below).
This year could look like…
Provincials
Connacht SHC
Quarter-finals
1: Sligo v Lancashire
2: Roscommon v New York
3: Leitrim v London
4: Mayo v Warwickshire
Semi-finals
5: Winner 1 v Winner 2
6: Winner 3 v Winner 4
Final
7: Winner 5 v Winner 6
Leinster SHC
Preliminary round 1
1: Meath v Louth
2: Longford v Wicklow
Preliminary round 2
3: Carlow v Winner 1
4: Westmeath v Laois
5: Kildare v Winner 2
Quarter-finals
6: Galway v Dublin
7: Offaly v Winner 3
8: Wexford v Winner 4
9: Kilkenny v Winner 5
Semi-finals
10: Winner 6 v Winner 7
11: Winner 8 v Winner 9
Final
12: Winner 10 v Winner 11
Munster SHC
Quarter-finals
1: Kerry v Clare
2: Tipperary v Waterford
Semi-finals
3: Limerick v Winner 1
4: Cork v Winner 2
Final
5: Winner 3 v Winner 4
Ulster SHC
Preliminary round
1: Armagh v Cavan
2: Monaghan v Fermanagh
Quarter-finals
3: Donegal v Winner 1
4: Derry v Winner 2
5: Tyrone v Down
Semi-finals
6: Antrim v Winner 1
7: Winner 2 v Winner 3
Final
8: Winner 6 v Winner 7
All-Ireland SHC
Teams
Seeded
* Leinster champions (Galway)
* Munster champions (Cork)
* Ulster champions (Down)
* Leinster runners-up (Kilkenny)
* Munster runners-up (Limerick)
* Leinster semi-finalists (Offaly)
* Leinster semi-finalists (Wexford)
* Munster semi-finalists (Clare)
Unseeded
* Munster semi-finalists (Tipperary)
* Joe McDonagh Cup winners (Kildare)
* Christy Ring Cup winners (London)
* National Hurling League (Waterford)
* National Hurling League (Dublin)
* National Hurling League (Antrim)
* National Hurling League (Laois)
* National Hurling League (Kerry)
Round 1
1: Offaly v Kerry
2: Down v Dublin
3: Clare v Antrim
4: Wexford v Waterford
5: Kilkenny v Laois
6: Limerick v Tipperary
7: Galway v London
8: Cork v Kildare
Round 2
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
Round 3
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Quarter-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Joe McDonagh Cup
Group stage
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Final
TBD v TBD
Christy Ring Cup
Group A
Carlow 0
Donegal 0
Roscommon 0
Wicklow 0
Group B
Derry 0
Mayo 0
Meath 0
Westmeath 0
Relegation playoff
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Nicky Rackard Cup
Group A
Armagh 0
Longford 0
New York 0
Tyrone 0
Group B
Fermanagh 0
Leitrim 0
Louth 0
Sligo 0
Relegation playoff
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Lory Meagher Cup
Group stage
Cavan 0
Lancashire 0
Monaghan 0
Warwickshire 0
Final
TBD v TBD
Notes
- Galway remain in Leinster for competitive balance
- Have to win ulster to qualify to All Ireland
- Have to get to Leinster semis to qualify for AI
- Just have to win a Munster match to qualify
- No direct qualification from Connacht championship
- Previous years cup winners play grade higher
- Mcdonagh cup can be played on AI final day
- Ring and Rackard can be played on AI sf days
- Meagher cup can be played on AI QF day" I think you have been out in the sun too long!
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 349 - 05/05/2026 21:56:55
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Replying To GaA247: "What if hurling mirrored the football format with a couple tweaks. Back to knockout provincials and then 16 teams in AISHC. There would also be 8 in the ring cup, 8 in the Rackard cup, 4 in the meagher cup and the 4 round 2B losers making up the mcdonagh cup…
This would give more counties a chance to compete against the best. If this happened this year Carlow and Westmeath would happen to be in the Christy Ring Cup despite usually every year being within the top 16 (allocation explained below).
This year could look like…
Provincials
Connacht SHC
Quarter-finals
1: Sligo v Lancashire
2: Roscommon v New York
3: Leitrim v London
4: Mayo v Warwickshire
Semi-finals
5: Winner 1 v Winner 2
6: Winner 3 v Winner 4
Final
7: Winner 5 v Winner 6
Leinster SHC
Preliminary round 1
1: Meath v Louth
2: Longford v Wicklow
Preliminary round 2
3: Carlow v Winner 1
4: Westmeath v Laois
5: Kildare v Winner 2
Quarter-finals
6: Galway v Dublin
7: Offaly v Winner 3
8: Wexford v Winner 4
9: Kilkenny v Winner 5
Semi-finals
10: Winner 6 v Winner 7
11: Winner 8 v Winner 9
Final
12: Winner 10 v Winner 11
Munster SHC
Quarter-finals
1: Kerry v Clare
2: Tipperary v Waterford
Semi-finals
3: Limerick v Winner 1
4: Cork v Winner 2
Final
5: Winner 3 v Winner 4
Ulster SHC
Preliminary round
1: Armagh v Cavan
2: Monaghan v Fermanagh
Quarter-finals
3: Donegal v Winner 1
4: Derry v Winner 2
5: Tyrone v Down
Semi-finals
6: Antrim v Winner 1
7: Winner 2 v Winner 3
Final
8: Winner 6 v Winner 7
All-Ireland SHC
Teams
Seeded
* Leinster champions (Galway)
* Munster champions (Cork)
* Ulster champions (Down)
* Leinster runners-up (Kilkenny)
* Munster runners-up (Limerick)
* Leinster semi-finalists (Offaly)
* Leinster semi-finalists (Wexford)
* Munster semi-finalists (Clare)
Unseeded
* Munster semi-finalists (Tipperary)
* Joe McDonagh Cup winners (Kildare)
* Christy Ring Cup winners (London)
* National Hurling League (Waterford)
* National Hurling League (Dublin)
* National Hurling League (Antrim)
* National Hurling League (Laois)
* National Hurling League (Kerry)
Round 1
1: Offaly v Kerry
2: Down v Dublin
3: Clare v Antrim
4: Wexford v Waterford
5: Kilkenny v Laois
6: Limerick v Tipperary
7: Galway v London
8: Cork v Kildare
Round 2
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2A: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
2B: TBD v TBD
Round 3
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Quarter-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Joe McDonagh Cup
Group stage
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Round 2B loser 0
Final
TBD v TBD
Christy Ring Cup
Group A
Carlow 0
Donegal 0
Roscommon 0
Wicklow 0
Group B
Derry 0
Mayo 0
Meath 0
Westmeath 0
Relegation playoff
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Nicky Rackard Cup
Group A
Armagh 0
Longford 0
New York 0
Tyrone 0
Group B
Fermanagh 0
Leitrim 0
Louth 0
Sligo 0
Relegation playoff
TBD v TBD
Semi-finals
TBD v TBD
TBD v TBD
Final
TBD v TBD
Lory Meagher Cup
Group stage
Cavan 0
Lancashire 0
Monaghan 0
Warwickshire 0
Final
TBD v TBD
Notes
- Galway remain in Leinster for competitive balance
- Have to win ulster to qualify to All Ireland
- Have to get to Leinster semis to qualify for AI
- Just have to win a Munster match to qualify
- No direct qualification from Connacht championship
- Previous years cup winners play grade higher
- Mcdonagh cup can be played on AI final day
- Ring and Rackard can be played on AI sf days
- Meagher cup can be played on AI QF day" I love this Idea.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4488 - 05/05/2026 22:42:26
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Replying To Tadhg2020: "I think you have been out in the sun too long!" Apologies for a clear plan.
GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 69 - 06/05/2026 12:23:59
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If it's not broke...
Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 115 - 06/05/2026 12:50:16
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Just a few observations and questions:
1 - Is there any actual point to that Connacht Championship in the greater scheme of things, since finishing positions don't influence where anybody goes in the subsequent competitions at all?
2 - For the Tier 1 championship, why are Ulster champions seeded (suggesting that the Ulster championship is a top tier competition in its own right), but the Ulster runners-up aren't even guaranteed a spot in it (which instead puts it on a par with that basically meaningless Connacht Championship) ?
3 - Similarly, why are Ulster Champions and both beaten Leinster semi-finalists seeded, thereby ranking them ahead of one of the beaten Munster semi-finalists?
4 - How do you decide which of the beaten Munster semi-finalists is seeded, and which one isn't?
5 - Bit ambitious to have New York involved at so many stages! They could face up to eight matches.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3576 - 06/05/2026 13:12:02
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Love it but it won't happen. Because hurling people are way too protectionist, way too "its our game and anybody trying to barge in can get stuffed". And here I can copy & paste from a post on Wexford page yesterday.
Ultimately, the strong counties care not a jot about the development of hurling. Including our own. To be fair to the Leinster Council, they have made underage structures which at least give counties a chance to compete.
But take Kildare. Kildare will learn assuming they are relegated this year that hurling is a caste of elites paying lip service to everybody else and pretending to care while fawning over great provincial and All-Ireland finals or whatever.
Why would Kildare continue to invest in the game when their "reward" for years of work is straight back to McDonagh hurling? Would their county board not say "Why did we waste 10-15 years of time, money and coaching for that"? "Why didn't we just spend it on football where we might get a return on investment"?
And the reality is, there will be platitudes and condescending back-handed compliments from those at the top but nothing will change because it suits themselves to keep the game a closed shop.
"I'm alright Jack" is the order of the day.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 2026 - 06/05/2026 13:14:04
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Love it but it won't happen. Because hurling people are way too protectionist, way too "its our game and anybody trying to barge in can get stuffed". And here I can copy & paste from a post on Wexford page yesterday.
Ultimately, the strong counties care not a jot about the development of hurling. Including our own. To be fair to the Leinster Council, they have made underage structures which at least give counties a chance to compete.
But take Kildare. Kildare will learn assuming they are relegated this year that hurling is a caste of elites paying lip service to everybody else and pretending to care while fawning over great provincial and All-Ireland finals or whatever.
Why would Kildare continue to invest in the game when their "reward" for years of work is straight back to McDonagh hurling? Would their county board not say "Why did we waste 10-15 years of time, money and coaching for that"? "Why didn't we just spend it on football where we might get a return on investment"?
And the reality is, there will be platitudes and condescending back-handed compliments from those at the top but nothing will change because it suits themselves to keep the game a closed shop.
"I'm alright Jack" is the order of the day." So what's your solution?
And for what it's worth - that's a question I often feel like asking you in response to such posts from you.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3576 - 06/05/2026 13:21:41
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Just a few observations and questions:
1 - Is there any actual point to that Connacht Championship in the greater scheme of things, since finishing positions don't influence where anybody goes in the subsequent competitions at all?
2 - For the Tier 1 championship, why are Ulster champions seeded (suggesting that the Ulster championship is a top tier competition in its own right), but the Ulster runners-up aren't even guaranteed a spot in it (which instead puts it on a par with that basically meaningless Connacht Championship) ?
3 - Similarly, why are Ulster Champions and both beaten Leinster semi-finalists seeded, thereby ranking them ahead of one of the beaten Munster semi-finalists?
4 - How do you decide which of the beaten Munster semi-finalists is seeded, and which one isn't?
5 - Bit ambitious to have New York involved at so many stages! They could face up to eight matches." All fair points and it's open to changes but if I had to give my reasoning for these
1 I just included the championship as there would be counties that wouldn't play matches before the tiered championship. Also if the level improves in Connacht you could eventually give the province 1 spot in the last 16
2 Technically it is the highest level in ulster but your right, they don't need to be seeded. Also I wouldn't give ulster 2 spots as if say a donegal pull off shock for example and get to a final, they wouldn't be able for the Liam McCarthy, if they win it then fair enough.
3 / 4 The seeding can be done completely differently. I just picked the best performing provincial teams as the seeds. And the reason why I didn't pick a Munster sf team as seeded is because a Munster team may have gotten a bye to a semi (eg Cork) and lose the semi therefore winning no provincial match
5 New York point is fair. They may have to just enter knockout stages like they currently do.
GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 69 - 06/05/2026 13:57:58
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Pikeman96 show me these posts where I have proposed a problem and not a solution? Give me a link, time of post, etc.
The above is a great example of what COULD be done.
I have also said knock-out provincial championships, groups with seeds based on the provincial championships, promotion/relegation to the LMcC cup but allow anybody to compete at provincial level is how we grow the game.
What we have at the moment is a closed shop and I have heard Colin Ryan, Brian Carroll, Babs Keating, and more make this point lately.
I look forward to you linking the times of my post, I'll respond tomorrow. Maybe post them on the Wexford Page so as not to derail this thread.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 2026 - 06/05/2026 14:23:52
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I wouldn't be surprised if Croke Park were push for preliminary quarter finals between 3rd and 4th. This will be despite the Munster CEO and Wexford contributors on here speaking out against it. If Croke Park get the 3rd v 4th preliminary quarter final through Congress, you'll be looking at:
Provincial finals similar to Round 2A - winners to semi finals. Losers to quarter finals.
Preliminary quarter final similar to Round 2B - winners to quarter finals. Losers out.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9711 - 06/05/2026 14:50:19
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It's hard to imagine the knockout provincials being anything more than a token few games between wildly mismatched teams in the set up proposed here. We've seen for 100 years how that does absolutely nothing for weaker counties and they remain stagnant. Then they would revert to the current system anyway?
Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 115 - 06/05/2026 15:00:10
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there simply are not 16 teams that would be competitive in an AI
By competitive, I dont mean necessarily with a chance of winning it (if that was the criterion then you might only have 5-7 teams) but with a decent chance of winning a game or running a top team close
Nobody wants to see a bunch of blowouts, but at the same time giving so called developing teams a chance to pit themselves vs the best and continue to develop
Kildare this year for example
Would it help hurling in Antrim, Westmeath, Carlow, Laois and Down for those counties to all play in the AI series?
Versus playing each other, in a competitive championship, with the best team promoted?
If Kildare go down, which is likely, then I get it there is an argument for giving them a second year (maybe the solution is for the McDonogh Cup winners to play-off with the bottom team?)
One concrete step that could be taken is to better promote the McDonogh Cup - right now its six teams but why not eight? Kerry and Meath or Derry would be competitive in the Joe Mc. . They could easily accommodate 7 rounds (right now it ends June 6 six weeks before the AI series does. Then you could have semi finals with top 4 qualifying and games played when there are no AI games so give them live coverage. Schedule games as much as possible when provincials have rest weekends so more TV coverage. Maybe even play the final the weekend of the AI final, like a Friday night under lights
Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 245 - 06/05/2026 15:17:43
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Pikeman96 show me these posts where I have proposed a problem and not a solution? Give me a link, time of post, etc.
The above is a great example of what COULD be done.
I have also said knock-out provincial championships, groups with seeds based on the provincial championships, promotion/relegation to the LMcC cup but allow anybody to compete at provincial level is how we grow the game.
What we have at the moment is a closed shop and I have heard Colin Ryan, Brian Carroll, Babs Keating, and more make this point lately.
I look forward to you linking the times of my post, I'll respond tomorrow. Maybe post them on the Wexford Page so as not to derail this thread." Ah, come on now. You've a long track record of posting about issues and problems without proposing any realistic, workable solutions. Even going back to Covid times.
Granted, this is one of the rare instances where you appear to actually have proposed a "solution", but think it through and measure it against what you're hoping to achieve:
"knock-out provincial championships, groups with seeds based on the provincial championships, promotion/relegation to the LMcC cup but allow anybody to compete at provincial level"
So, a "come all ye" knockout Leinster Championship, where up to eight or even nine actual Leinster counties could choose to compete: Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Offaly, Laois, Kildare, Westmeath, Carlow, maybe Meath.
Assuming Galway don't go into Munster and that neither Connacht nor Ulster gets its own championship, you could probably add in three more: Galway, Antrim, Down. That'd make 12 teams total.
First round games could include Laois v Westmeath, Carlow v Down, or Kildare v Antrim. Losers would be out and never get to compete in the Liam McCarthy unless they win promotion through the Joe McDonagh route anyway. And if they did, quite probable they'd be relegated again the following year anyway, to be replaced by another yo-yo team.
How does that actually help Kildare, Laois, Down, etc.? Because it certainly doesn't give them more games against higher-ranked teams.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3576 - 06/05/2026 15:39:10
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Replying To Yadse: "there simply are not 16 teams that would be competitive in an AI
By competitive, I dont mean necessarily with a chance of winning it (if that was the criterion then you might only have 5-7 teams) but with a decent chance of winning a game or running a top team close
Nobody wants to see a bunch of blowouts, but at the same time giving so called developing teams a chance to pit themselves vs the best and continue to develop
Kildare this year for example
Would it help hurling in Antrim, Westmeath, Carlow, Laois and Down for those counties to all play in the AI series?
Versus playing each other, in a competitive championship, with the best team promoted?
If Kildare go down, which is likely, then I get it there is an argument for giving them a second year (maybe the solution is for the McDonogh Cup winners to play-off with the bottom team?)
One concrete step that could be taken is to better promote the McDonogh Cup - right now its six teams but why not eight? Kerry and Meath or Derry would be competitive in the Joe Mc. . They could easily accommodate 7 rounds (right now it ends June 6 six weeks before the AI series does. Then you could have semi finals with top 4 qualifying and games played when there are no AI games so give them live coverage. Schedule games as much as possible when provincials have rest weekends so more TV coverage. Maybe even play the final the weekend of the AI final, like a Friday night under lights" Yes. I don't agree anyway with the notion that more games against higher-ranked sides will by itself bring up the standards of a team.
Antrim had 15 games in the Leinster Championship over 2023/24/25. They lost 11 of them, by a combined total of almost 200 points. Even when they sprang a surprise by beating Wexford two years ago (the "progress" that proponents of the notion would point to), their next two matches were a 23-point mauling at the hands of Dublin, followed by a 14-point defeat to Galway. And their three years of matches against higher-ranked sides are not exactly standing them in good stead at the moment either.
A better and expanded Joe McDonagh Cup is probably the way to go all right - i.e. maintain a realistic target and means for teams to be competitive at their own level, and if they do happen to improve over time through inward effort and investment, they'll eventually survive and become competitive at a higher level all right.
Wexford football would celebrate winning the Tailteann Cup and look forward to at least one year at Sam Maguire level, but wouldn't expect to be left in the Sam Maguire after that "just because". In soccer across the water, Coventry City will celebrate winning the Championship, but realistically, would probably settle right now for 17th in the Premier League next year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3576 - 06/05/2026 16:00:17
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Yes. I don't agree anyway with the notion that more games against higher-ranked sides will by itself bring up the standards of a team.
Antrim had 15 games in the Leinster Championship over 2023/24/25. They lost 11 of them, by a combined total of almost 200 points. Even when they sprang a surprise by beating Wexford two years ago (the "progress" that proponents of the notion would point to), their next two matches were a 23-point mauling at the hands of Dublin, followed by a 14-point defeat to Galway. And their three years of matches against higher-ranked sides are not exactly standing them in good stead at the moment either.
A better and expanded Joe McDonagh Cup is probably the way to go all right - i.e. maintain a realistic target and means for teams to be competitive at their own level, and if they do happen to improve over time through inward effort and investment, they'll eventually survive and become competitive at a higher level all right.
Wexford football would celebrate winning the Tailteann Cup and look forward to at least one year at Sam Maguire level, but wouldn't expect to be left in the Sam Maguire after that "just because". In soccer across the water, Coventry City will celebrate winning the Championship, but realistically, would probably settle right now for 17th in the Premier League next year." Wexford football would celebrate winning the Tailteann Cup and look forward to at least one year at Sam Maguire level, but wouldn't expect to be left in the Sam Maguire after that "just because". In soccer across the water, Coventry City will celebrate winning the Championship, but realistically, would probably settle right now for 17th in the Premier League next year
That's an excellent point and perfectly illustrates the fallacy at the heart of claims that the current system some how punches down on teams. People want to believe in the fairytale that 14 or 15 counties could contend for the All Ireland if they were left into the top level indefinitely, absolutely tanking the quality and entertainment of the liam Mccarthy in the process. We have the potential for gradual improvement atm - and most importantly you get rewarded for your improvement which is what makes the system excellent. Kildare yo-yoed between Christy ring and Joe Mcdonagh for a number if years and now they are in leinster. The next step for them is the hardest and rightly so.
Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 115 - 06/05/2026 18:09:25
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Replying To Overdahill: "Wexford football would celebrate winning the Tailteann Cup and look forward to at least one year at Sam Maguire level, but wouldn't expect to be left in the Sam Maguire after that "just because". In soccer across the water, Coventry City will celebrate winning the Championship, but realistically, would probably settle right now for 17th in the Premier League next year
That's an excellent point and perfectly illustrates the fallacy at the heart of claims that the current system some how punches down on teams. People want to believe in the fairytale that 14 or 15 counties could contend for the All Ireland if they were left into the top level indefinitely, absolutely tanking the quality and entertainment of the liam Mccarthy in the process. We have the potential for gradual improvement atm - and most importantly you get rewarded for your improvement which is what makes the system excellent. Kildare yo-yoed between Christy ring and Joe Mcdonagh for a number if years and now they are in leinster. The next step for them is the hardest and rightly so." You summed it up well there especially the last part McCarthy Cup hurling isnt supposed to be easy its a world apart from everything else and that is what makes it great.
The hurling tiered system is about as good as you could get it. A level for everyone with movement up and down between them. I wouldnt agree on expanding the McDonagh Cup though.( unless you mean dropping one down from leinster) Id leave the composition of each championship as is. The promoted team generally finds it hard as it is.
On players embracing the learning curve of playing against better teams, that's not my experience at all. Teams that get promoted often have a significant change in personnel. Players opt out for various reasons / excuses but its no coincidence that it happens at the higher level. Roscommon hurlers lost a significant amount of their Rackard Cup winning team for example. I guess lads dont like a season of losing matches.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 349 - 07/05/2026 07:53:55
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Another example of how a couple of years playing higher-ranked teams in a higher grade doesn't necessarily bring on a side:
Westmeath in the Leinster SHC, 2022 & 2023. Couple of surprise results v Wexford all right (a draw and a win), but in other games against the ones expected to be towards the top of the table (i.e. Kilkenny, Galway, Dublin):
2022 - average margin of defeat was 16 points
2023 - average margin of defeat was 23 points
Not exactly progress, is it?
And again, even if you were to consider that victory over Wexford in Round 4 of 2023 as "progress" - next result was a 14-point defeat to Antrim in Round 5, that saw them relegated. And they've finished only fourth in the Joe McDonagh Cup in both years since then.
Two years at a higher level clearly did little or nothing for them. So, for anyone who maintains that playing against stronger counties in the top tier is the way to bring on a side - how long do you think they'd need in that top tier before it might actually pay off?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3576 - 07/05/2026 10:56:46
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The reality of Hurling is that too much time and money is wasted at senior level
It should have 2 competitions - McCarthy and McDonagh. Everyone else should save their budgets and put it into growing club participation in their counties. Only by increasing participation will counties rise to the top levels.
Every weaker hurling county should be copying the Dublin model in their urban areas - you want to play football? You do hurling too.
Rural ireland is goosed - so developing hurling in urban areas is the only viable future.
Forget paying for coaches and nutrition and mileage to 25+ year old men so they can play in the mickey mouse cup in front of their wifes/girlfriends.
Pay for some top quality coaches to go into schools in urban areas and teach kids the game there instead.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1795 - 07/05/2026 15:30:11
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The reality of Hurling is that too much time and money is wasted at senior level
It should have 2 competitions - McCarthy and McDonagh. Everyone else should save their budgets and put it into growing club participation in their counties. Only by increasing participation will counties rise to the top levels.
Every weaker hurling county should be copying the Dublin model in their urban areas - you want to play football? You do hurling too.
Rural ireland is goosed - so developing hurling in urban areas is the only viable future.
Forget paying for coaches and nutrition and mileage to 25+ year old men so they can play in the mickey mouse cup in front of their wifes/girlfriends.
Pay for some top quality coaches to go into schools in urban areas and teach kids the game there instead." You're actually not too far off a couple of things that were already proposed but which were roundly shot down.
First, the proposal that counties with five or fewer hurling clubs would be removed from the National League, with that time given to club action in those counties instead. After all, if you're taking probably 25 or more men from as few as two or four clubs to form a county panel, the clubs don't have enough players left to play matches between themselves during that time. The county standard players would still get to hurl; the other club players would have matches too; and the hope was that new hurling teams would be formed if competitions could be run at that time of year, when club football wasn't making too many demands.
Second, the "Liam Griffin Motion" that went to Congress twice, seeking to make every club provide at least Go Games hurling for every player up to the age of 10, with just a few types of exceptions allowed (i.e. if there was a genuine demographics issue, or if there was already a separate hurling club serving that area).
I've said it before a few times in this context - it's like how you can take a horse to water, but can't make him drink. Croke Park or the stronger counties or anyone else could try move every mountain going and throw every resource possible at the counties where hurling is currently just a minority sport, but unless there's a genuine will within those counties to actually develop hurling, then it's just never going to happen.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3576 - 07/05/2026 16:27:01
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