National Forum

Patrick Horgan.

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Well the thread was started, asking if Horgan was in the top 10 of all time. People have expressed their opinions, some saying yes, some saying no - good to read all opinions. I totally understand why the man is a legend in Cork hurling circles. My point is that I don't think he would make a top 10. If there's a counter argument that defeats my point, all good.

Strange to read that it was irrelevant if Horgan performed or not though, surely performing and performing on the biggest day in the hurling calendar is what propels players into the top 10. Strange also to read that comparing players across generations is futile. I'm pretty sure Croke Park officials have to do this on a regular basis to assess hall of fame entrants, or players whose photos appear on the walls of Croker.

I fully agree with my fellow county poster munsterchamps about Aaron Gillane. Like Horgan, 5 All Ireland finals. Gillane scored 1-31, (1-13 from play), Horgan scored 0-47, (0-9) from play. Look at how Tony Kelly influenced the 2024 all Ireland final, 1-4 from play. My point is the difference in scoring from play and in general assisting other players to score is what should be expected from a 'top 10' player. Absolutely nothing against Patrick Horgan and I'm sure we will be watching him for years to come in club hurling and that he will have a positive influence for Cork should he go down the coaching/management route.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6569 - 25/09/2025 14:50:02    2637433

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Horgan's all Ireland Finals scoring record:
2013 Draw (0-10, 0-8 frees)
2013 Replay (0-9, 0-7 frees)
2021 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2024 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2025 (0-4, 0-3 frees)

In defence of Horgan's brilliance, let it be said the object of the exercise is to put scores on the board whether they are from play, frees or penalties it matters not a bit. He was a monumental sporting threat as a player to any opposition. He is one of the top 3 greats in the country. I had the pleasure of seeing him play a number of times.

Cuhullain (Kildare) - Posts: 304 - 25/09/2025 14:57:11    2637434

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Replying To munsterchamps:  "the best corner forward for the last 7 or 8 yrs has been gillane unstopppable when in full flow."
There's a few others off your team would be contenders for top 5 also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17104 - 25/09/2025 15:00:17    2637436

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Replying To Cuhullain:  "Horgan's all Ireland Finals scoring record:
2013 Draw (0-10, 0-8 frees)
2013 Replay (0-9, 0-7 frees)
2021 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2024 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2025 (0-4, 0-3 frees)

In defence of Horgan's brilliance, let it be said the object of the exercise is to put scores on the board whether they are from play, frees or penalties it matters not a bit. He was a monumental sporting threat as a player to any opposition. He is one of the top 3 greats in the country. I had the pleasure of seeing him play a number of times."
Interesting.

Who else is in the top 3 that you mention?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6569 - 25/09/2025 16:28:16    2637457

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Replying To slayer:  "Well the thread was started, asking if Horgan was in the top 10 of all time. People have expressed their opinions, some saying yes, some saying no - good to read all opinions. I totally understand why the man is a legend in Cork hurling circles. My point is that I don't think he would make a top 10. If there's a counter argument that defeats my point, all good.

Strange to read that it was irrelevant if Horgan performed or not though, surely performing and performing on the biggest day in the hurling calendar is what propels players into the top 10. Strange also to read that comparing players across generations is futile. I'm pretty sure Croke Park officials have to do this on a regular basis to assess hall of fame entrants, or players whose photos appear on the walls of Croker.

I fully agree with my fellow county poster munsterchamps about Aaron Gillane. Like Horgan, 5 All Ireland finals. Gillane scored 1-31, (1-13 from play), Horgan scored 0-47, (0-9) from play. Look at how Tony Kelly influenced the 2024 all Ireland final, 1-4 from play. My point is the difference in scoring from play and in general assisting other players to score is what should be expected from a 'top 10' player. Absolutely nothing against Patrick Horgan and I'm sure we will be watching him for years to come in club hurling and that he will have a positive influence for Cork should he go down the coaching/management route."
Gearoid Hegarty scored 3-16 in 5 AI finals, all from play, despite not scoring in the 2018 final. Tom Morrissey scored 1-14 from play in 5 AI finals.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17104 - 25/09/2025 17:38:35    2637466

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The issue Cork had was that Horgan was their marquee forward for most of those and maybe the supporting cast didn't help him out like they should.
Easy to stop one man teams to be blunt. Stop the marquee player = win the match.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1493 - 25/09/2025 20:34:26    2637477

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Replying To Viking66:  "Gearoid Hegarty scored 3-16 in 5 AI finals, all from play, despite not scoring in the 2018 final. Tom Morrissey scored 1-14 from play in 5 AI finals."
Great post, further displaying that a top 10 might just be very difficult to get into.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6569 - 25/09/2025 21:54:54    2637481

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Replying To Viking66:  "Gearoid Hegarty scored 3-16 in 5 AI finals, all from play, despite not scoring in the 2018 final. Tom Morrissey scored 1-14 from play in 5 AI finals."
Big time players show up in the big matches. Thats the difference.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 901 - 26/09/2025 09:17:13    2637498

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Replying To Viking66:  "Gearoid Hegarty scored 3-16 in 5 AI finals, all from play, despite not scoring in the 2018 final. Tom Morrissey scored 1-14 from play in 5 AI finals."
The Limerick forwards were scoring plenty because of the caliber of the team around them. The Cork teams (last 2 years excepted) Patrick played with throughout his career where nowhere near that level, which makes his achievements even more remarkable.

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 447 - 26/09/2025 10:39:51    2637512

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "The Limerick forwards were scoring plenty because of the caliber of the team around them. The Cork teams (last 2 years excepted) Patrick played with throughout his career where nowhere near that level, which makes his achievements even more remarkable."
I wasn't pointing out their scoring feats relative to Pa Horgan. I was pointing them out as the post I was answering highlighted Aaron Gillanes 1-13 from play in finals. 2 of his teammates scored more.
Going back to the original debate there are numerous, as in more than 10, hurlers who it could be said are in the top 10 of all time. Pa Horgan is certainly one of them. It's all subjective after that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17104 - 26/09/2025 10:54:37    2637515

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "The Limerick forwards were scoring plenty because of the caliber of the team around them. The Cork teams (last 2 years excepted) Patrick played with throughout his career where nowhere near that level, which makes his achievements even more remarkable."
I'd agree with this to a degree. Limerick were absolutely dominant in some of those finals, creating more scoring opportunities than we'd ever seen in finals. Two of the finals, as well as the 2023 second half turned into turkey shoots. Games where forwards could fill their boots.
TJ Reid didn't score from play in either of the 2022 or 2023 finals. He's absolutely a big player, one of the greatest, but he didn't do it on the big day to quote the cliché above.
Hegarty was outstanding in some of those finals, but he was part of an extremely dominant team. Peter Casey was similar in some of those games. He had a supply of ball into space that most top forwards would dream of. They were good enough to take their chances, which is also crucial.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2552 - 26/09/2025 10:59:10    2637516

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The issue Cork had was that Horgan was their marquee forward for most of those and maybe the supporting cast didn't help him out like they should.
Easy to stop one man teams to be blunt. Stop the marquee player = win the match.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1493 - 26/09/2025 12:33:08    2637535

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Replying To Viking66:  "I wasn't pointing out their scoring feats relative to Pa Horgan. I was pointing them out as the post I was answering highlighted Aaron Gillanes 1-13 from play in finals. 2 of his teammates scored more.
Going back to the original debate there are numerous, as in more than 10, hurlers who it could be said are in the top 10 of all time. Pa Horgan is certainly one of them. It's all subjective after that."
100% Viking, and although I replied to your post it was a general response. I'd also like to mention Patrick's fitness and the fact that he was rarely injured over what was close to 2 decades at intercounty - practically unheard of. Look, all of this is subjective anyway, and each sees what they believe to be true, but for me, he is one of the greatest in red to ever pick up a hurley, and the game will be the lesser with him gone...

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 447 - 26/09/2025 12:42:09    2637538

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Horgan was a good player but not in the top league

brayballer (Wicklow) - Posts: 349 - 26/09/2025 15:30:27    2637561

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "100% Viking, and although I replied to your post it was a general response. I'd also like to mention Patrick's fitness and the fact that he was rarely injured over what was close to 2 decades at intercounty - practically unheard of. Look, all of this is subjective anyway, and each sees what they believe to be true, but for me, he is one of the greatest in red to ever pick up a hurley, and the game will be the lesser with him gone..."
The best ability is availability

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17104 - 26/09/2025 15:59:53    2637568

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The original question was if Patrick Horgan is in the top 10 of all time.
A better question is is he even in the top 10 Cork hurlers of all time.
To me, I would say no to that even.
But all you can be is the best hurler of your era, and that he was. I just think Cork were not good enough and losing 4 All-Ireland tells just that in my opinion.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1493 - 26/09/2025 16:59:17    2637581

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