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Replying To Bon: "Is that being streamed anywhere?" Yes. 6 euro.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 02/12/2025 17:09:52
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I believe we have Clare Dublin down away and Antrim Kildare Carlow at home
Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 382 - 02/12/2025 17:26:16
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Replying To Viking66: "Most counties are back at u18 for minor now.
The reasons for letting minors play adult obviously don't include making fixtures easier to arrange. Not sure why you are dwelling on this." Yes, I know that most counties are back at U18 for Minor. That's why my post said some counties operate at U17. I didn't say many, most, several, plenty, or anything else. I said some.
As regards "dwelling" on the fixtures issue -
Remember that both last year and the year before, there were also motions to allow Minors play adult. Those motions lost both years, by quite significant margins. From memory, only approx. 25% support last year, and less the year before that.
Main reason they lost so heavily both years is that it was fully explained to people and those people fully considered the impact it would have on fixtures.
Now there's a big swell of opinion towards passing one of the motions after all. So be it. But that doesn't mean that the fixtures issue will suddenly disappear. It will still be there.
Everybody will need to "dwell" on it to consider how the inevitable difficulties can be overcome. It's probably the biggest issue that clubs, young players, and fixtures committees will face next year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3285 - 02/12/2025 20:26:17
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Replying To Wexfordgaa: "I believe we have Clare Dublin down away and Antrim Kildare Carlow at home" Harsh to be away to the other 2 favourites to go up. Trips to Ennis and Down will be good craic though!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 02/12/2025 21:03:46
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Yes, I know that most counties are back at U18 for Minor. That's why my post said some counties operate at U17. I didn't say many, most, several, plenty, or anything else. I said some.
As regards "dwelling" on the fixtures issue -
Remember that both last year and the year before, there were also motions to allow Minors play adult. Those motions lost both years, by quite significant margins. From memory, only approx. 25% support last year, and less the year before that.
Main reason they lost so heavily both years is that it was fully explained to people and those people fully considered the impact it would have on fixtures.
Now there's a big swell of opinion towards passing one of the motions after all. So be it. But that doesn't mean that the fixtures issue will suddenly disappear. It will still be there.
Everybody will need to "dwell" on it to consider how the inevitable difficulties can be overcome. It's probably the biggest issue that clubs, young players, and fixtures committees will face next year." As big as the fixtures issue was, that of safeguarding and Garda vetting swayed alot of people too.
I'm not saying it won't be a problem, sorting the fixtures, of course it will be. I'm just saying that many in the county think now that letting up to the age minors play adult will help our intercounty u20 and Senior teams. And seemingly that view was echoed by the lads conducting the review.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 02/12/2025 22:06:57
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@Viking66 - yes, and the safeguarding and vetting issue will remain as well, if an adult squad includes lads who are in their second year of Minor but who haven't yet actually turned 18.
I know the Taghmon motion sets out to address this by saying they can play adult only when they turn 18, but I think that could have unintended or unfortunate consequences too.
For example - one of our top two or three players in their final year of U14 this year is still only 13, as his birthday falls on December 31st. If he'd been born just a few hours later, he'd still be eligible for U14 next year, and would probably be an absolute superstar at that grade.
But roll the clock on a few years if it's the Taghmon motion that's passed. In his second year at Minor, he wouldn't be able to play adult at all, because he'd still be 17 for the entire championship season. But other "lesser" players with birthdays in January or Februrary would be able to play it for ten or eleven months.
Am not saying it's a bad motion, and it's obviously well-intentioned, like all of them area. Just saying it's not an ideal solution either, and that's something else that will have to be considered.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3285 - 03/12/2025 11:47:36
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - yes, and the safeguarding and vetting issue will remain as well, if an adult squad includes lads who are in their second year of Minor but who haven't yet actually turned 18.
I know the Taghmon motion sets out to address this by saying they can play adult only when they turn 18, but I think that could have unintended or unfortunate consequences too.
For example - one of our top two or three players in their final year of U14 this year is still only 13, as his birthday falls on December 31st. If he'd been born just a few hours later, he'd still be eligible for U14 next year, and would probably be an absolute superstar at that grade.
But roll the clock on a few years if it's the Taghmon motion that's passed. In his second year at Minor, he wouldn't be able to play adult at all, because he'd still be 17 for the entire championship season. But other "lesser" players with birthdays in January or Februrary would be able to play it for ten or eleven months.
Am not saying it's a bad motion, and it's obviously well-intentioned, like all of them area. Just saying it's not an ideal solution either, and that's something else that will have to be considered." Our motion is not ideal but then again having a cut off date that applies to all as is the current system isnt either. Back in the day when records were kept on paper it made sense from an administrative point of view, but maybe with Foireann we could address this nowadays? Maybe not either, its a complicated topic.
Statistically most elite players in academies/development squads in most sports are born in Q1 or Q2 of any given year. This is called Relative Age Effect or RAE for short. This problem is exacerbated in GAA with 2 year age grades at club level. Clare and Limerick have sought to address this by running competitions for every year group.
https://cora.ucc.ie/server/api/core/bitstreams/0fba3441-e702-4a16-854e-2798bc3fc2bb/content
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0323971
Biobanding, also piloted by Clare, but adopted here by coaching and games in the last couple of years, helps address this issue too, although its more directed at counteracting imbalances due to young people being at PHV, Peak Height Velocity, at different ages.
Sorry for all the Clare references, if you are wondering why, check out their performances in the last 4 minor championships.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 03/12/2025 15:23:48
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The safeguarding issue is bogus. It was only stuck in to strengthen their case for blocking young players playing adult hurling and football. Once people hear safeguarding issue, of course they'll vote for something.
Are we the only county in Ireland with safeguarding? Because we are one of the only, if not the only, county who prevents players who are over u17 age group from playing adult GAA. Currently there are guys who are blocked from playing adult GAA until after their 19th birthday. That's bonkers. It stunts their development as players, and just drives them towards other sports. If people have any sense the motion to allow players play in their last year of minor will sweep through handily.
I wouldn't hold my breath though. If there was much common sense going around, then the current hurling championship structure wouldn't have made it past a quick chat in the pub, never mind be voted in.
icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2583 - 03/12/2025 15:33:25
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Fixture dates have been released.
Home to Antrim Jan 24th
Away to Down
Home to Carlow
Away to Clare
Away to Dublin ( Croke Park)
Home to Kildare
Disappointing we dont have Clare or Dublin at home you would imagine attendances will be small for those home games unfortunately. Nice to get a run out at croker though before Dubs v Kerry. Crucial we win our first 3 games then it will be about trying to get a win over Clare or Dublin to get out of the division.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 760 - 03/12/2025 15:57:01
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Replying To icehonesty: "The safeguarding issue is bogus. It was only stuck in to strengthen their case for blocking young players playing adult hurling and football. Once people hear safeguarding issue, of course they'll vote for something.
Are we the only county in Ireland with safeguarding? Because we are one of the only, if not the only, county who prevents players who are over u17 age group from playing adult GAA. Currently there are guys who are blocked from playing adult GAA until after their 19th birthday. That's bonkers. It stunts their development as players, and just drives them towards other sports. If people have any sense the motion to allow players play in their last year of minor will sweep through handily.
I wouldn't hold my breath though. If there was much common sense going around, then the current hurling championship structure wouldn't have made it past a quick chat in the pub, never mind be voted in." The safeguarding and garda vetting are non issues. Until there is an incident. At the same time when/where minor is u17 you have lads who are still 17 playing adult.
Pretty sure our own u21s and their managements arent all Garda vetted or completed Safeguarding courses either.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 03/12/2025 15:58:35
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League fixtures:
1. Antrim home 24/1/2026
2. Down away 1/2/2026
3. Carlow home 7/2/2026
4. Dublin away 21/2/2026
5. Clare away 8/3/2026
6. Kildare home 21/3/2026
OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 306 - 03/12/2025 16:00:50
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Replying To icehonesty: "The safeguarding issue is bogus. It was only stuck in to strengthen their case for blocking young players playing adult hurling and football. Once people hear safeguarding issue, of course they'll vote for something.
Are we the only county in Ireland with safeguarding? Because we are one of the only, if not the only, county who prevents players who are over u17 age group from playing adult GAA. Currently there are guys who are blocked from playing adult GAA until after their 19th birthday. That's bonkers. It stunts their development as players, and just drives them towards other sports. If people have any sense the motion to allow players play in their last year of minor will sweep through handily.
I wouldn't hold my breath though. If there was much common sense going around, then the current hurling championship structure wouldn't have made it past a quick chat in the pub, never mind be voted in." No, we're not the only county with safeguarding. It's actually a legal requirement for the whole State, under the Children First Act 2015. If you work or volunteer with people up to and including age 17, in sport or anything else, then by law you're supposed to have safeguarding training and be Garda vetted.
Being honest though, not too sure it was very strictly enforced during the few years (2017 to 2022) when we operated Minor at U17, meaning lads who were still 17 for most of the following year could play adult. But as somebody else said, it only really becomes an issue when something happens.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3285 - 03/12/2025 17:11:19
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Replying To Pikeman96: "No, we're not the only county with safeguarding. It's actually a legal requirement for the whole State, under the Children First Act 2015. If you work or volunteer with people up to and including age 17, in sport or anything else, then by law you're supposed to have safeguarding training and be Garda vetted.
Being honest though, not too sure it was very strictly enforced during the few years (2017 to 2022) when we operated Minor at U17, meaning lads who were still 17 for most of the following year could play adult. But as somebody else said, it only really becomes an issue when something happens." Taking the issue perhaps back to the core concerns - I would say like you that fixtures are a real concern and also player welfare. Ever club will put their hands on their hands and promise that they wont demand minor fixtures changes but when it comes to it they won't play without their start players. The situation we had this year with U21 hurling, so every club will say that won't happen in minor?
Player welfare, we are we trying to cater for with this change? if those players are not allowed to play adult will they give up playing altogether, if we allow everyone to play and lets be honest some may think they are ready and are not, do we risk them giving up playing before they should or getting injuries they would not have got.
I have always said we have a problem of looking for quick fixes in Wexford, and this is one of them, that suddenly a lad who is minor who now can play adult if going to save Wexford hurling but he wouldn't have been able to do that if he waited another year. For me its a cop out for not looking to see if the County and Clubs have the correct games setup and coaching for players at Minor level.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2129 - 04/12/2025 10:46:21
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Replying To zinny: "Taking the issue perhaps back to the core concerns - I would say like you that fixtures are a real concern and also player welfare. Ever club will put their hands on their hands and promise that they wont demand minor fixtures changes but when it comes to it they won't play without their start players. The situation we had this year with U21 hurling, so every club will say that won't happen in minor?
Player welfare, we are we trying to cater for with this change? if those players are not allowed to play adult will they give up playing altogether, if we allow everyone to play and lets be honest some may think they are ready and are not, do we risk them giving up playing before they should or getting injuries they would not have got.
I have always said we have a problem of looking for quick fixes in Wexford, and this is one of them, that suddenly a lad who is minor who now can play adult if going to save Wexford hurling but he wouldn't have been able to do that if he waited another year. For me its a cop out for not looking to see if the County and Clubs have the correct games setup and coaching for players at Minor level." I think you talk a lot of sense. If it's not already clear (!), I haven't a doubt in the world that there'd be all sorts of aggro over fixtures next year, particularly at time of year when Minor and adult knockout matches have to be fixed for the same weekends.
You also make a good point about quick fixes. Have been thinking myself about how the "right" thing to do changes every few years, despite the bigger picture not changing at all:
- At Convention 2016, "right" thing to do was change Minor to U17, so that lads a year older could play adult, "sure they're all or nearly all well able for it anyway", and there'd be no impact on the Minor championships.
- In 2017, '18, '19, '20, and '21, this was still the "right" thing to do.
- At Convention 2022, the "right" thing was to change Minor back to U18, because it turned out not enough lads were going straight on to adult at all, but to decouple it from the adult grades.
- In '23 and '24, this was still the "right" thing to do. Motions to change it were soundly defeated.
- Now heading into Convention 2025, the "right" thing will be to change it again, so that lads of that age can play both Minor and adult.
This has become the "right" thing despite nothing changing in the bigger picture re. impact on fixtures, safeguarding issues, player welfare, etc. The only thing that's changed are people's opinions.
And quite possible that in another few years, this will be judged the "wrong" thing after all, and something else will be "right".
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3285 - 04/12/2025 13:06:28
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Replying To zinny: "Taking the issue perhaps back to the core concerns - I would say like you that fixtures are a real concern and also player welfare. Ever club will put their hands on their hands and promise that they wont demand minor fixtures changes but when it comes to it they won't play without their start players. The situation we had this year with U21 hurling, so every club will say that won't happen in minor?
Player welfare, we are we trying to cater for with this change? if those players are not allowed to play adult will they give up playing altogether, if we allow everyone to play and lets be honest some may think they are ready and are not, do we risk them giving up playing before they should or getting injuries they would not have got.
I have always said we have a problem of looking for quick fixes in Wexford, and this is one of them, that suddenly a lad who is minor who now can play adult if going to save Wexford hurling but he wouldn't have been able to do that if he waited another year. For me its a cop out for not looking to see if the County and Clubs have the correct games setup and coaching for players at Minor level." Coaching and games were thoroughly reviewed as well. Elite Minors playing adult was not the only measure recommended.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 04/12/2025 13:07:58
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Replying To Viking66: "Coaching and games were thoroughly reviewed as well. Elite Minors playing adult was not the only measure recommended." True, but I think the point probably is that clubs and their Convention delegates will see it as the "quick fix" that can be implemented immediately, "because Kinnerk said we should do it".
It won't be "all the others might pay off by themselves if they're implemented, so let's wait and see, and then decide if U18s playing adult is still needed".
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3285 - 04/12/2025 15:50:49
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Replying To Pikeman96: "True, but I think the point probably is that clubs and their Convention delegates will see it as the "quick fix" that can be implemented immediately, "because Kinnerk said we should do it".
It won't be "all the others might pay off by themselves if they're implemented, so let's wait and see, and then decide if U18s playing adult is still needed"." Regardless of whether the others are needed or not, and some of the recommendations are pie in the sky stuff with unrealistic expectations of other people/groups who haven't really shown much interest in improving things but who the draft report implied can be relied upon to do just that, that recommendation makes sense, and is implementable by ourselves without relying on outside help that thus far hasn't been wholly forthcoming. I fully understand its not without significant problems, and we have voted against it on that basis before more than once. But after watching our u20 campaign this year I personally changed my mind, and it seems from this report that far more knowledgeable/experienced people than me agree.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 04/12/2025 17:46:48
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I think you talk a lot of sense. If it's not already clear (!), I haven't a doubt in the world that there'd be all sorts of aggro over fixtures next year, particularly at time of year when Minor and adult knockout matches have to be fixed for the same weekends.
You also make a good point about quick fixes. Have been thinking myself about how the "right" thing to do changes every few years, despite the bigger picture not changing at all:
- At Convention 2016, "right" thing to do was change Minor to U17, so that lads a year older could play adult, "sure they're all or nearly all well able for it anyway", and there'd be no impact on the Minor championships.
- In 2017, '18, '19, '20, and '21, this was still the "right" thing to do.
- At Convention 2022, the "right" thing was to change Minor back to U18, because it turned out not enough lads were going straight on to adult at all, but to decouple it from the adult grades.
- In '23 and '24, this was still the "right" thing to do. Motions to change it were soundly defeated.
- Now heading into Convention 2025, the "right" thing will be to change it again, so that lads of that age can play both Minor and adult.
This has become the "right" thing despite nothing changing in the bigger picture re. impact on fixtures, safeguarding issues, player welfare, etc. The only thing that's changed are people's opinions.
And quite possible that in another few years, this will be judged the "wrong" thing after all, and something else will be "right"." People's opinions arent the only thing that changed. We haven't won a Leinster u20/21 title since 2015, and that despite winning a minor title in 2019. As someone who has watched near enough all our games at that grade since the noughties it struck me that our lads in more recent years just weren't as physically able to win broken or contested ball as lads from other counties. After a while the penny dropped that alot of our u20s had never hurled a club adult game, or had at best only 1 season under their belts, while most of their opponents had 2 years adult club played.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17678 - 04/12/2025 17:54:29
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