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Replying To Pikeman96: "I think it's time to seriously consider scrapping U21 altogether. People say it's an important grade in bridging the gap between underage and adult. That might have been true years ago, when players of that age would probably only have had a handful of games a year without it. But now, there are more adult League & Championship games than there ever were in those days, and things are very different.
As previously pointed out, problems with running U21 are:
- Can't play it in early part of the year due to inter-county competition
- Can't play it in May/June due to Leaving Cert & college exams
- Try run it midweek at this time of year, and you get all the problems we're seeing now.
- Leave it until November to start, and you've two other problems. You're still trying to work around adult fixtures as three hurling teams and three football will be competing in Leinster. And you're facing complaints of "leaving lads waiting all year and now expecting them to play on bad pitches and in bad weather".
Even the Oulart suggestion of using the Wednesdays in the run-up to the two free weekends wouldn't have solved things. There are four rounds of U21 this time of year (two hurling, two football), so you'd still have the same problems in two of those weeks. And that's leaving aside altogether how on one of the dates that Oulart suggested, lads with Intermediate 'A' football clubs would also be playing championship 24 hours later.
As I heard somebody else say a year or two back - if we'd never had U21 in the first place, nobody would be suggesting it now. Nobody would be saying: "Know what we really need? Another age grade between Minor and adult, because there simply aren't enough games in the calendar without it".
Finally, side note - and still, some people want U18s to be able to play adult as well. Look at what's happening the U21 championships, and imagine what the Minor championships would be like too." Are you telling me that every u18 goes into adult? There is no player dropout at this level?
What is odd is that somewhere else Viking was arguing that U21 was a better indication of future All Ireland success not minor but yet we think that 18yr olds can be sprung straight into Senior Club teams. Perhaps if clubs looked at the long term and focused on development of groups of players together, rather than break them up into different terms in adult the minute they can play, they may eventually have more senior success. Clubs have enough older players still capable of contributing but there is a rush to bring young lads in and these lads give up.
Rather than allow u18s to play adult how about stopping u21s from doing it and create a proper u21 championship? Would clubs still have enough players for all their adult teams? Would it mean adult players would play longer and u18s play longer? If all the clubs played all their u21s how would the winners compare to an adult team? Intermediate ?
Nothing will change in Wexford but we believe that somehow we will win an All Ireland by doing the same things we have been doing all along (sorry not even that but worse) .
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2036 - 02/08/2025 18:33:29
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Replying To zinny: "Are you telling me that every u18 goes into adult? There is no player dropout at this level?
What is odd is that somewhere else Viking was arguing that U21 was a better indication of future All Ireland success not minor but yet we think that 18yr olds can be sprung straight into Senior Club teams. Perhaps if clubs looked at the long term and focused on development of groups of players together, rather than break them up into different terms in adult the minute they can play, they may eventually have more senior success. Clubs have enough older players still capable of contributing but there is a rush to bring young lads in and these lads give up.
Rather than allow u18s to play adult how about stopping u21s from doing it and create a proper u21 championship? Would clubs still have enough players for all their adult teams? Would it mean adult players would play longer and u18s play longer? If all the clubs played all their u21s how would the winners compare to an adult team? Intermediate ?
Nothing will change in Wexford but we believe that somehow we will win an All Ireland by doing the same things we have been doing all along (sorry not even that but worse) ." On your first line - I don't know where you got that idea from what I wrote.
All I meant is that we see now that in a week with U21 fixtures, there are all sorts of issues with those fixtures, because some of the same lads are playing adult both the weekend before and weekend after as well.
If you allowed minors to play adult, you'd have the same issue with every round of Minor fixtures as well, and they're almost every week. Even if a club only had one or two minors good enough to play with the adult teams, they'd still have concerns over them having to play midweek as well as weekend.
And for what it's worth, fixtures for minor quarter-finals were issued yesterday. Football mainly Wednesday August 13, and hurling mainly Monday August 18. So if some of these lads were also playing adult, the schedule they'd be looking at would be this:
- Wednesday August 13: Minor Football
- Weekend of August 15 to 17: Adult Football
- Monday August 18: Minor Hurling
- Wednesday August 20: U20 Football
- Weekend of August 22 to 24: Adult Football
Basically, five matches in somewhere between 9 and 11 days.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3004 - 02/08/2025 19:11:24
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Replying To Pikeman96: "On your first line - I don't know where you got that idea from what I wrote.
All I meant is that we see now that in a week with U21 fixtures, there are all sorts of issues with those fixtures, because some of the same lads are playing adult both the weekend before and weekend after as well.
If you allowed minors to play adult, you'd have the same issue with every round of Minor fixtures as well, and they're almost every week. Even if a club only had one or two minors good enough to play with the adult teams, they'd still have concerns over them having to play midweek as well as weekend.
And for what it's worth, fixtures for minor quarter-finals were issued yesterday. Football mainly Wednesday August 13, and hurling mainly Monday August 18. So if some of these lads were also playing adult, the schedule they'd be looking at would be this:
- Wednesday August 13: Minor Football
- Weekend of August 15 to 17: Adult Football
- Monday August 18: Minor Hurling
- Wednesday August 20: U20 Football
- Weekend of August 22 to 24: Adult Football
Basically, five matches in somewhere between 9 and 11 days." The first line was in reference to getting rid of u21.
Getting rid of it would be going backwards and if people were really interested in what was the best for the game they would be looking at what the causes are and not blaming fixtures. I agree with you if you allowed minors to play its just moving the problem further down the age groups.
The county board has to have all the data on players in U21 playing adult and those that don't play anything once they leave minor - why is nothing being done with it?
Anyone interested in how the game needs to change to grow would be horrified by the suggestion of minors playing adult.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2036 - 02/08/2025 20:42:22
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I think it's time to seriously consider scrapping U21 altogether. People say it's an important grade in bridging the gap between underage and adult. That might have been true years ago, when players of that age would probably only have had a handful of games a year without it. But now, there are more adult League & Championship games than there ever were in those days, and things are very different.
As previously pointed out, problems with running U21 are:
- Can't play it in early part of the year due to inter-county competition
- Can't play it in May/June due to Leaving Cert & college exams
- Try run it midweek at this time of year, and you get all the problems we're seeing now.
- Leave it until November to start, and you've two other problems. You're still trying to work around adult fixtures as three hurling teams and three football will be competing in Leinster. And you're facing complaints of "leaving lads waiting all year and now expecting them to play on bad pitches and in bad weather".
Even the Oulart suggestion of using the Wednesdays in the run-up to the two free weekends wouldn't have solved things. There are four rounds of U21 this time of year (two hurling, two football), so you'd still have the same problems in two of those weeks. And that's leaving aside altogether how on one of the dates that Oulart suggested, lads with Intermediate 'A' football clubs would also be playing championship 24 hours later.
As I heard somebody else say a year or two back - if we'd never had U21 in the first place, nobody would be suggesting it now. Nobody would be saying: "Know what we really need? Another age grade between Minor and adult, because there simply aren't enough games in the calendar without it".
Finally, side note - and still, some people want U18s to be able to play adult as well. Look at what's happening the U21 championships, and imagine what the Minor championships would be like too." No one trains for this grade.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 548 - 03/08/2025 06:55:41
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Replying To Viking66: "I think lads should be able to play adult as soon as they turn 18. That gets rid of the need to get adult panels/managements Garda vetted, and having to do Safeguarding courses. And at the same time it would be a massive boost to our county u20s. Of the team that started against Kilkenny only 4 I think had played any adult hurling, and that for just 1 year, while near enough all the Kilkenny lads had played adult, most for 2 full seasons. They played with way more physicality than our lads, and won nearly all the broken ball." 100%. That's ruined our county team at that grade.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3873 - 03/08/2025 08:28:06
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Replying To zinny: "The first line was in reference to getting rid of u21.
Getting rid of it would be going backwards and if people were really interested in what was the best for the game they would be looking at what the causes are and not blaming fixtures. I agree with you if you allowed minors to play its just moving the problem further down the age groups.
The county board has to have all the data on players in U21 playing adult and those that don't play anything once they leave minor - why is nothing being done with it?
Anyone interested in how the game needs to change to grow would be horrified by the suggestion of minors playing adult." What is being done about players leaving minor and quitting? Well creating a free weekend when every young lad wants to go to the biggest music festival of the summer instead of being dictated to by GAA Club Ltd is one, yet some people still argue how dare they want to enjoy life in the Summer and nothing other than GAA Club Ltd should be important to a young man.
You must sign the contract of 100% commitment to the club for the best summers of your life and nothing else matters from July to October.
Indeed, I wonder why players quit and find other things to do with their lives.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1922 - 03/08/2025 09:02:35
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Replying To Formertownie: "As good as Lee chin is to me it looks like everything and I mean everything is going through him with harriers. There seems to be a sense within the team that sure lee will pull us through and they are riding the comfort zone train feeding off chins scraps . They better wake up before its too late .
If he gets held there does nt seem to be a plan b or a plan at all at times . I know missing couple others through injury etc but still need more leaders on the field than just chin Richie kehoe went off injured in first half . Big loss for them
Looks like jippo done decent job on chin last night and broke a lot of ball. Rest of harries looked to be found wanting when it came to winning breaking ball .
Kevin Foley gave an exhibition .
Down to 14 men 2 minding chin mostly
Extra defender for harriers and still could nt negate the foley influence .
Ps wishing Richie Kehoe speedy recovery form what looked like a season ending injury . Been some warrior in fairness .
Could be a very interesting the last round of games aftr rest of group
Would ve been more interesting if 2 teams exited championship proper after round Robin organ least one team . Takes the bite off the tension of last round . Ah sure we still have a chance .
Expect martis and shels to win but you never know." Chinner has the same effect on us as the county team. Everybody around him becomes complacent because they think he'll sort everything.
Lads saying we'll be in the Joe mcdonagh without him don't get that our forward unit will work way harder when he's not playing.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3873 - 03/08/2025 11:29:43
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Replying To StoreysTash: "What is being done about players leaving minor and quitting? Well creating a free weekend when every young lad wants to go to the biggest music festival of the summer instead of being dictated to by GAA Club Ltd is one, yet some people still argue how dare they want to enjoy life in the Summer and nothing other than GAA Club Ltd should be important to a young man.
You must sign the contract of 100% commitment to the club for the best summers of your life and nothing else matters from July to October.
Indeed, I wonder why players quit and find other things to do with their lives." We either want to be successful or we don't.
The commitment required now is over the top. But that's what the top players in the top counties are doing so what choice for we have?
Keep everybody happy and fall further behind?
I bet you Cian lynch, Tony Kelly, tj etc. Have no interest in electric picnic.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3873 - 03/08/2025 11:32:33
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I find it quite interesting that the clubs that seem to be going well at whatever adult grade they are in are also the ones that field under-20 teams regardless of schedule. As if they recognise the importance of giving young lads games and plan accordingly.
The empty vessels make the most noise.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1503 - 03/08/2025 13:15:20
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Ferns looked a completely different side with Paul Morris back, him and CBD had a huge impact on the game out the field
Think the U20s would be best advised to put Charlie Roark in the half-forward line next year, we've struggled for years to produce half-forwards who can win their own ball and who can dominate in the air, he still needs to work on his hurling and on his speed but at least there's something to work with there
Think Oylegate are being too clever by half with Damien Reck so advanced, Casey was quiet enough in general play too
Has to be a bit of a worry that Seán Rowley isn't back yet, that must have been a very bad hamstring injury and speed was a huge part of his game
Don't think the county's GK situation is that bad either as long as we aren't alienating our best talent, Lawlor and Duggan both made great saves and thought their distribution is no worse than Fanning's
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 617 - 03/08/2025 17:54:44
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Ferns looked a completely different side with Paul Morris back, him and CBD had a huge impact on the game out the field
Think the U20s would be best advised to put Charlie Roark in the half-forward line next year, we've struggled for years to produce half-forwards who can win their own ball and who can dominate in the air, he still needs to work on his hurling and on his speed but at least there's something to work with there
Think Oylegate are being too clever by half with Damien Reck so advanced, Casey was quiet enough in general play too
Has to be a bit of a worry that Seán Rowley isn't back yet, that must have been a very bad hamstring injury and speed was a huge part of his game
Don't think the county's GK situation is that bad either as long as we aren't alienating our best talent, Lawlor and Duggan both made great saves and thought their distribution is no worse than Fanning's" Duggan is the best keeper in Wexford followed by Lawlor.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3873 - 03/08/2025 19:05:04
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Ferns looked a completely different side with Paul Morris back, him and CBD had a huge impact on the game out the field
Think the U20s would be best advised to put Charlie Roark in the half-forward line next year, we've struggled for years to produce half-forwards who can win their own ball and who can dominate in the air, he still needs to work on his hurling and on his speed but at least there's something to work with there
Think Oylegate are being too clever by half with Damien Reck so advanced, Casey was quiet enough in general play too
Has to be a bit of a worry that Seán Rowley isn't back yet, that must have been a very bad hamstring injury and speed was a huge part of his game
Don't think the county's GK situation is that bad either as long as we aren't alienating our best talent, Lawlor and Duggan both made great saves and thought their distribution is no worse than Fanning's" Not sure Charlie Rourk has the speed to play halfback or half forward. Won very little ball against Laois also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 03/08/2025 22:24:00
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Duggan is the best keeper in Wexford followed by Lawlor." Duggans very good ok. Of the younger keepers Cian Byrne and Paddy Quigley would be the best imo.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 03/08/2025 22:26:21
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Chinner has the same effect on us as the county team. Everybody around him becomes complacent because they think he'll sort everything.
Lads saying we'll be in the Joe mcdonagh without him don't get that our forward unit will work way harder when he's not playing." The other forwards should be working way harder all the time.
All the top teams have their top man but they don't over rely on them. The key to success is when everyone gives it 100%. We are only fooling ourselves if we think otherwise. It's a recipe for failure.
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 544 - 03/08/2025 23:37:36
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Replying To Magpie2: "The other forwards should be working way harder all the time.
All the top teams have their top man but they don't over rely on them. The key to success is when everyone gives it 100%. We are only fooling ourselves if we think otherwise. It's a recipe for failure." It's not just about hard work. Some of the lads in our county back 7, not naming names, forget to hurl or arent very fast at processing whats in front of them, and just lump the ball in the vague direction of the red helmet in the distance up the pitch when the intensity rises. And that is most certainly a recipe for failure.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 04/08/2025 14:17:04
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Some good games over the weekend, though I didn't see as many as usual as I was otherwise engaged. There's a bit more clarity about where some teams are finishing as regards top and bottom 2.
In Senior Group A it's looking like Rathnure and Annes are going to finish 1 and 2, Rathnure are definitely top 2, while at the bottom Crossabeg are definitely bottom 2, Ferns are going to have to get results go their way. Rathnure have a nice blend of youth and experience, and an excellent coach, but apart from lads already in the county set up 2 younger lads in Charlie Mooney, and Eamon Wickham who hurled well for the county u20s last year, surely deserve a phonecall from Keith, management could get them in preseason and see for themselves is there potential there or not. AJ Redmond is surely worth giving another chance to also. Word is that he'd give it a better shot if he gets a call. Jack Redmond is scoring well from play which is great to see from a counry point of view.
In Group B St Martins are there, but Shels in 2nd have to play the Martins, and if they lose that and the Harriers win the Harriers will take 2nd on head to head. Oulart are definitely bottom 2, while there are a few possibilities to join them. Alex Lafferty from the Martins who was with the county u20s this year is another tall lad with potential.
We need more height in our county team.
As regards faster inside forwards who can score heavily Cathal Doyle came off the bench and marked his return from injury with 3 from play in 10 minutes or so.
If we don't have much height up front, as it's looking likely we won't for the next couple of years at least, we need to devise systems of play to suit faster lads, and pick lads fast enough and prolific enough to execute them.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 04/08/2025 15:42:18
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In Intermediate group A if St James beat Buffers Alley they will definitely finish as the top 2 teams, but a Alley win would open the door for Fethard should they beat Tara Rocks, or Tara Rocks if they win well, or the winner of the game between Blackwater and Craanford, should the winner win very well. Basically it's mathematically possible for any of the 6 teams finish in the top 2, with the Alley guaranteed 1 of the places. So it's impossible to predict the bottom 2 either. Will the Alley rest players ahead of the knockouts, unlikely as they have a 5 week break now.
In Intermediate group B Cloughbawn will finish 1st. Liam Mellows are 2nd, but if Gusserane beat them on the final day, and Askamore and Bunclody both lose, then Gusserane who are 5th will finish 2nd. Horeswood are definitely going to finish last. If Gusserane, Askamore and Bunclody all win then Liam Mellows who are currently 2nd will finish 5th. So still all to play for in the final round for 4 of the teams. But will Cloughbawn and Horeswood rest players maybe? Unlikely with the long break ahead.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 04/08/2025 17:43:41
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In Intermediate A group A Monageer are guaranteed top 2, where they will be joined by Clongeen, unless Clongeen lose by more than a point and Davidstown win by more than a point, basically there's a 2 point difference in goal difference for Davidstown to make up. Clongeen do have a tough game against Monageer though. At the bottom Duffry are definitely in the bottom 2, while Oulart will join them there unless they beat Duffry and Shels lose or draw with Davidstown.
In Group B Cushinstown and Geraldine's will definitely finish up in the bottom 2, while at the top Martins or Taghmon will definitely finish in the top 2 if they win the game between them. If Martins win then Mary's will likely finish 2nd, regardless of the other results, unless they lose heavily to Cushinstown and/or Adamstown beat Geraldines. In that case Adamstown could even finish 2nd if they beat Geraldines really well, even though they will be tied with Marys and Taghmon who both beat them. If Taghmon win and Mary's lose Marys will need Adamstown to win as well for them to finish ahead of Martins and take 2nd place, as Martins have the head to head with Marys. Mary's, Taghmon and Martins all know a win will see them finish in the top 2.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 04/08/2025 18:14:02
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Replying To Viking66: "Some good games over the weekend, though I didn't see as many as usual as I was otherwise engaged. There's a bit more clarity about where some teams are finishing as regards top and bottom 2.
In Senior Group A it's looking like Rathnure and Annes are going to finish 1 and 2, Rathnure are definitely top 2, while at the bottom Crossabeg are definitely bottom 2, Ferns are going to have to get results go their way. Rathnure have a nice blend of youth and experience, and an excellent coach, but apart from lads already in the county set up 2 younger lads in Charlie Mooney, and Eamon Wickham who hurled well for the county u20s last year, surely deserve a phonecall from Keith, management could get them in preseason and see for themselves is there potential there or not. AJ Redmond is surely worth giving another chance to also. Word is that he'd give it a better shot if he gets a call. Jack Redmond is scoring well from play which is great to see from a counry point of view.
In Group B St Martins are there, but Shels in 2nd have to play the Martins, and if they lose that and the Harriers win the Harriers will take 2nd on head to head. Oulart are definitely bottom 2, while there are a few possibilities to join them. Alex Lafferty from the Martins who was with the county u20s this year is another tall lad with potential.
We need more height in our county team.
As regards faster inside forwards who can score heavily Cathal Doyle came off the bench and marked his return from injury with 3 from play in 10 minutes or so.
If we don't have much height up front, as it's looking likely we won't for the next couple of years at least, we need to devise systems of play to suit faster lads, and pick lads fast enough and prolific enough to execute them." Does Lafferty have another year of U20 left?
Regarding him, Mooney, and Wickham, I like the approach Colm Collins used to use in Clare, used to bring in younger lads who maybe weren't quite good enough for the senior panel just yet but had potential and gave them a few training sessions here and there to see what they were about, to acclimatise themselves to their set-up, and to give them an idea of what they need to work towards
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 617 - 04/08/2025 21:52:22
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Replying To Viking66: "Some good games over the weekend, though I didn't see as many as usual as I was otherwise engaged. There's a bit more clarity about where some teams are finishing as regards top and bottom 2.
In Senior Group A it's looking like Rathnure and Annes are going to finish 1 and 2, Rathnure are definitely top 2, while at the bottom Crossabeg are definitely bottom 2, Ferns are going to have to get results go their way. Rathnure have a nice blend of youth and experience, and an excellent coach, but apart from lads already in the county set up 2 younger lads in Charlie Mooney, and Eamon Wickham who hurled well for the county u20s last year, surely deserve a phonecall from Keith, management could get them in preseason and see for themselves is there potential there or not. AJ Redmond is surely worth giving another chance to also. Word is that he'd give it a better shot if he gets a call. Jack Redmond is scoring well from play which is great to see from a counry point of view.
In Group B St Martins are there, but Shels in 2nd have to play the Martins, and if they lose that and the Harriers win the Harriers will take 2nd on head to head. Oulart are definitely bottom 2, while there are a few possibilities to join them. Alex Lafferty from the Martins who was with the county u20s this year is another tall lad with potential.
We need more height in our county team.
As regards faster inside forwards who can score heavily Cathal Doyle came off the bench and marked his return from injury with 3 from play in 10 minutes or so.
If we don't have much height up front, as it's looking likely we won't for the next couple of years at least, we need to devise systems of play to suit faster lads, and pick lads fast enough and prolific enough to execute them." Am I wrong in saying that Rathnure are guaranteed top as they have head to head on St Anne's?
Seen the Ferns Rathnure game. Charlie Mooney took two big hits in that game and got up straight away like nothing happened. He's tall but very slender. Right S&C with senior county set up would do him wonders. Remember watching his father Joe playing years ago who was built like a house and hard as nails so he comes from good stock.
Would have put Rathnure in bottom 3 as pre championship prediction and I'd say their target at start of the year was to stay in senior and get senior championship experience for younger players in their group. But them and St Martins teams of championship so far. Skippy has only lost once in 16 championship games as manager of them and the one they lost they were down to 13 men. Losing was a habit with Rathnure for number of years but seems he's instilled a habit of winning with this team.
Rapps looked a lot better with Liam Ryan back. Hopefully he can stay injury free for rest of the year not just for Rapps but for Wexford hurling in general.
Oulart not going well in both senior and Inter A. Could be a case similar to Buffers Alley and Rathnure where they had a good team over a period of time but when that crop get older and start retiring it leaves a talent vacuum and then they struggle for a number of years just trying to stay in the higher grades.
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 72 - 04/08/2025 22:08:24
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