|
Bring back the early 2000s League structure - The top 16 teams were drawn into Divisions 1A and 1B. The other 16 teams were drawn into Divisions 2A and 2B.
It's not full fat division 1 maybe division 1.5 .
The structure does not cut off the weaker counties condemned to division 3 or 4 - where playing amongst lower quality does not raise your overall level. Back in the early 2000s teams could at least compete and show the standard that they needed to get to in a real live competitive game. We aren't then baffled when they aren't up to standard come Championship. Accrington Stanley might beat Liverpool in a once cup tie but rarely continue the run. Counties like Fermanagh, Wexford and Sligo could legitimately put seasons together and make a run to a proper All-Ireland quarter finals or more.
What is the point of Roscommon, Monaghan, Down and Westmeath yo-yoing between divisions.
If a players a bit vein, playing 2A sounds better than playing division 4
The argument against this is it lessens the league for the big teams - what does Dublin/Kerry care about playing Antrim/Sligo/Longford. We talk about player burnout and tight calendars - lessen the league importance, blood new players and focus on the championship.
cjsouthgaels (Sligo) - Posts: 1 - 28/03/2025 10:02:25
2599027
Link
1
|
|
Replying To cjsouthgaels: "Bring back the early 2000s League structure - The top 16 teams were drawn into Divisions 1A and 1B. The other 16 teams were drawn into Divisions 2A and 2B.
It's not full fat division 1 maybe division 1.5 .
The structure does not cut off the weaker counties condemned to division 3 or 4 - where playing amongst lower quality does not raise your overall level. Back in the early 2000s teams could at least compete and show the standard that they needed to get to in a real live competitive game. We aren't then baffled when they aren't up to standard come Championship. Accrington Stanley might beat Liverpool in a once cup tie but rarely continue the run. Counties like Fermanagh, Wexford and Sligo could legitimately put seasons together and make a run to a proper All-Ireland quarter finals or more.
What is the point of Roscommon, Monaghan, Down and Westmeath yo-yoing between divisions.
If a players a bit vein, playing 2A sounds better than playing division 4
The argument against this is it lessens the league for the big teams - what does Dublin/Kerry care about playing Antrim/Sligo/Longford. We talk about player burnout and tight calendars - lessen the league importance, blood new players and focus on the championship." The linking of the league to the championship has made it a peculiar beast.
Division 1 was a slow bicycle race - teams looking to avoid the final and do just enough to stay in it.
Division 2 embodied everything you would want a good league to be; teams fighting for every point to both avoid relegation; finish as high as possible to get a good enough ranking to stay in the all Ireland and ultimately a big prize to get promoted up to Division 1.
Division 3 had Leitrim unable to fulfil a fixture and outside of aiming for promotion there was not much more about it - the top 3 teams had a scoring difference of 112 points over the other 5 teams.
Division 4 was similarly lopsided with the top 2 teams having a scoring difference of 110 points over the other 6 teams.
I think we there is no need to link the league to the championship; reward good / bad championship performance with championship promotion and relegation.
As for the league structure if the old 1A and 1B formats were in play now - division 2A and 2B would have had a load of mismatches but does allow teams to get more experience. It would shake it up a bit which would be a good thing - but fairly quickly we'd want to move back to the current format as the mismatches increase.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 413 - 28/03/2025 11:34:18
2599041
Link
1
|
|
Maybe 1A,1B,2,3 or
1,2A,2B,3 ?
2A/2B very competitive.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3166 - 28/03/2025 13:07:39
2599061
Link
0
|
|
Think the League Football is actually better structured than the Championship. Unless you are from one of only a handful of counties Championship Football is pretty meaningless.
At least in the League most counties start out the year dreaming of winning their division, or at least not getting relegated. There's something to play for.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15252 - 28/03/2025 15:26:37
2599089
Link
0
|
|
The linking of the league and the provincial finalists to championship is only increasing the gap in standards between the top 16 counties and the bottom. It's designed to give the so-called 'big' counties even more chances to get to the TV money rounds of the All Ireland and generate more for the GAA in attendance, TV and media revenue. Provincials could be run between rounds of the league with no bearing whatsoever on All Ireland qualification. Ulster football is the strongest provincial championship yet participation in it does those counties no favours. Why should Ulster teams, passionate to win the Anglo-Celt, have to be squeezed into the League/All Ireland structure, starting one close to League finishing and with less gap to the All Ireland Series?
Counties from the bottom two divisions play a poor standard of football against each other. They might play a higher standard of football in a provincial game, maybe an upper third division team in good form could take a lower division two team scalp. Then lose the next round and drop into the annual 'sure yer great lads' tournament known as the Tailteann Cup.
Before the 2001 backdoor All Ireland Championship the GAA announced that it 'wasn't fair' that intercounty teams would be knocked out of the Championship if they lost one game. So they came up with the back door second chance saloon effort. I wasn't a fan but it had a few great qualifier games and when it really got going some more great games in the knockout phases. But the second chance was there to benefit stronger counties and more games means more revenue. The real plus point of it though was that Fermanagh, Wexford and Tipperary got to the semi finals during the backdoor era but couldn't sustain that level. 2 of them will be in Division 3 next year and one 8n Division 4. Kinda difficult to imagine them making great strides to improve their standards of football playing there and in the Tailteann Cup. But if you're a Division One team you could put your feet up until the All Ireland series, even if you're relegated. Getting to a Provincial Final won't benefit you greatly unless you're an Ulster county who still treasure their provincial championship.
It's only an All Ireland Championship if all the counties participate. It's an All Ireland Senior Championship. The Tailteann Cup is the All Ireland Junior Championship, not Intermediate, because of the widening gap in standards between the two. It'll keep the rich richer and the poor poorer and needs a rethink. Not many counties care about the league and very few outside Ulster care about the provincial championships any more. It's a phoney war until the later stages of All Ireland and Tailteann so what's fair about that and what counties benefit the most from these new systems that they change every few years?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7863 - 28/03/2025 21:06:06
2599144
Link
0
|
|
@GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7849 - 28/03/2025
Would you like an "Intermediate" AIC between Sam and Tailteann. Given AIC status, I'd hope the status would be better than a Div 2 League Final, akin to the Europa Cup.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3166 - 30/03/2025 15:35:49
2599469
Link
0
|
|
Replying To omahant: "@GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7849 - 28/03/2025
Would you like an "Intermediate" AIC between Sam and Tailteann. Given AIC status, I'd hope the status would be better than a Div 2 League Final, akin to the Europa Cup." I want a league like cjsouthgaels suggests. Help improve standards of weaker counties. Play provincials in breaks during the league , could also improve standards of weaker counties. Then an open draw All Ireland Championship. No seedings based on a league or provincials to benefit any county. Stronger counties already have enough advantages, bigger player pool because of population, money, better facilities, some miss less players during league because they're in college close to training, a real plus when Championship starts. All Ireland Championship should be win or go home. No more of these 'I wonder are they really trying because their big game is in 3 weeks' Gogames, during league, provincial, All Ireland. And some all county GAA committee of players, coaches, clubs, supporters deciding on fixtures, not the TV company telling some lads in suits and the GPA when they want games to be played. Or get ready for an exodus of great potential in so-called weaker counties to other sports and kids in these counties never buying a county jersey but buying jerseys of 'elite' players like Clifford, O'Callaghan, Canavan.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7863 - 30/03/2025 18:36:45
2599511
Link
0
|
|
The league is the problem
Since the advent of the current structure, Div 1 league finals (and div 1 football) are the preserve of a select few (Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Derry, Tyrone, Cork - now replaced by Galway). This was far from the case previously (as outlined in another post I did).
top and bottom 16 will have mismatches - but you do need a structure which allows teams climb a ladder.
12, 12 and 8 does that job.
Div 1A -Mayo, Donegal, Dublin, Roscommon, Tyrone, Cavan
Div 1B - Kerry, Galway, Armagh, Monaghan, Derry, Meath
Div 2A - Cork, Offaly, Down, Fermanagh, Sligo, Limerick
Div 2B - Louth, Kildare, Westmeath, Clare, Laois, Wexford
Div 3 - Leitrim, Antrim, Wicklow, Carlow, Tipperary, Longford, London, Waterford
Div 1 - top 2 of each division into league semi (home draw for table toppers) - semi winners with best record nominates final venue
- 6th team in each division relegated
4 and 5th teams play off - loser of both matches relegated as 3rd team leaving div 1
Div 2
top 2 into a league final - team with best record nominates final venue
3rd place teams play off for last promotion place
6th place team relegated
4th and 5th place teams play off for last relegation place
Div 4
Top 2 teams into league final - team that tops the league gets to nominate the venue
3rd and 4th play off for last promotion place.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1288 - 31/03/2025 17:58:10
2599779
Link
0
|
|
Replying To tirawleybaron: "The league is the problem
Since the advent of the current structure, Div 1 league finals (and div 1 football) are the preserve of a select few (Kerry, Mayo, Dublin, Derry, Tyrone, Cork - now replaced by Galway). This was far from the case previously (as outlined in another post I did).
top and bottom 16 will have mismatches - but you do need a structure which allows teams climb a ladder.
12, 12 and 8 does that job.
Div 1A -Mayo, Donegal, Dublin, Roscommon, Tyrone, Cavan
Div 1B - Kerry, Galway, Armagh, Monaghan, Derry, Meath
Div 2A - Cork, Offaly, Down, Fermanagh, Sligo, Limerick
Div 2B - Louth, Kildare, Westmeath, Clare, Laois, Wexford
Div 3 - Leitrim, Antrim, Wicklow, Carlow, Tipperary, Longford, London, Waterford
Div 1 - top 2 of each division into league semi (home draw for table toppers) - semi winners with best record nominates final venue
- 6th team in each division relegated
4 and 5th teams play off - loser of both matches relegated as 3rd team leaving div 1
Div 2
top 2 into a league final - team with best record nominates final venue
3rd place teams play off for last promotion place
6th place team relegated
4th and 5th place teams play off for last relegation place
Div 4
Top 2 teams into league final - team that tops the league gets to nominate the venue
3rd and 4th play off for last promotion place." The league finals are the problem. Let the top County in each division get the cups and medals with everyone having a break before the championship. Nobody then has to pretend to lose or miss penalties. Padraic Carney would not have had to fly ftom NY to beat Carlow.
19616609 (Louth) - Posts: 1676 - 31/03/2025 20:05:36
2599812
Link
1
|
|
Replying To 19616609: "The league finals are the problem. Let the top County in each division get the cups and medals with everyone having a break before the championship. Nobody then has to pretend to lose or miss penalties. Padraic Carney would not have had to fly ftom NY to beat Carlow." No league finals arent the issue.
Its the structure of the entire inter county season.
Teams play a rouns robin league of 7 games which is followed by playoffs then teams play knock out provincial competitions which leads into all ireland which has a group atage then knock out again
Its all over the shop
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3744 - 01/04/2025 08:47:03
2599871
Link
0
|
|
League winners need a greater reward than the trophy.
Division 1 winners should be given home advantage for a game of their choosing in that year's championship.
Lower Division teams should get home advantage in their first round games, with a coin toss if winners meet.
So Kerry for example, would be able to opt for a home QF in the event of winning the Div1 title
It happens in NFL
Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1169 - 01/04/2025 10:05:34
2599882
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Eddie the Exile: "League winners need a greater reward than the trophy.
Division 1 winners should be given home advantage for a game of their choosing in that year's championship.
Lower Division teams should get home advantage in their first round games, with a coin toss if winners meet.
So Kerry for example, would be able to opt for a home QF in the event of winning the Div1 title
It happens in NFL" They've enough advantages in championship if they've reached a Division One Final. Maybe look for a sponsor to pay for a very good end of season holiday for players, backroom staff and their partners.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7863 - 01/04/2025 11:35:03
2599905
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KillingFields: "No league finals arent the issue.
Its the structure of the entire inter county season.
Teams play a rouns robin league of 7 games which is followed by playoffs then teams play knock out provincial competitions which leads into all ireland which has a group atage then knock out again
Its all over the shop" Yep the flow of the season is terrible.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4441 - 01/04/2025 11:44:05
2599907
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "Yep the flow of the season is terrible." Agreed.
7 or 8 games per County in 9 or 10 weekends Jan to March.
4 to 7 games per County in 11 weekends April to mid June.
The possibility of running Provincials in the same timeframe as NFL needs to be examined.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2180 - 01/04/2025 12:56:58
2599923
Link
0
|
|
There is no reason in the world why they couldnt run interprovincials and league together - Have the provincial finals spread over the St Patricks day weekend
Have the league finals over the May bank holiday - the league finals would be even more of an also ran unless winning the league meant something i.e seeding
3 divisions - 12,12, 8 - div 1A/1B and div 2A/2B
Top teams guaranteed 5 league matches and 1/2 provincials - weaker counties get 7 league matches and 1/2 provincials
Div 1
Top 2 in each groups go to final
4th and 5th go to relegation play off
6th gets relegated
Div 2
Top 2 in each group go to semi final, final and 3rd place play off
4th and 5th go to relegation play off
6th gets relegated
Div 3
Top 2 go to league final
3rd and 4th play off for 3rd promotion place
Championship
top 16 - 4 provincial championship winners, 1 defending All Ireland champions, 2 TC champions, 9 next in league
TC 12 - 4 groups of 3
Junior championship - 4 worst in league, New York, 3 from all ireland junior championship.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1288 - 01/04/2025 13:16:17
2599929
Link
0
|