National Forum

David Clifford GOAT

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To jm25:  "It's solid just under 2pts a game from play if you take out Kerry 2014 which were wild games your probably looking at about 12 pts in 8 games from play against solid defensive sides.

Decent but unspectacular.

To answer your question why he's not popular with other teams.

He was a bit of a cheap shot merchant and got away with a lot.

A fine player but wouldn't be a player I'd put in same league as keegan Higgins from that great mayo side"
Why would you take out two All Ireland semis against Kerry?

The 6 players who started in full forward lines in the All Ireland final last summer got a combined 1 point from play. Does that mean none of them are up to much either?

People insist on bringing up Cillian's scores against London, Leitrim and New York as a way of putting him down. Go through every All Ireland quarter final, semi final and final Mayo played from 2011 - 2020. He consistently put up big scores. I think gooch and possibly dean rock are the only players to have scored more in all Ireland finals too.

Of course none of that matters to people who just don't like him/Mayo.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 436 - 04/03/2025 17:30:42    2594740

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "oneoff: "Maybe because he was a full time free and penalty taker..."


This you hun? There were other posts claiming he was a free taker and did nothing in important games. That's why I posted the stats. x"
Yes after someone had claimed he was better than Clifford because he had scored more than him. Is it not a fact he was Mayos free taker?

Can you show us the post where people said they didn't like him? Or are you going to pretend you didn't say that?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1518 - 04/03/2025 17:34:54    2594741

Link

Replying To oneoff:  "Yes after someone had claimed he was better than Clifford because he had scored more than him. Is it not a fact he was Mayos free taker?

Can you show us the post where people said they didn't like him? Or are you going to pretend you didn't say that?"
Your post clearly is trying to say he was nothing more than a dead ball merchant.

As for people saying they don't like him? Perhaps you missed some posts on here. Or the multiple threads in the past where he is discussed. Some repeat posters.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8287 - 04/03/2025 18:51:13    2594762

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "So you want to take out the All Ireland semi final? Why? Add in the 4-03 in 2020 semi final if you want? 3 from play i think in 20 final v Dublin . I think 3 from play also in 17 final. 2 from play i think in 16 one an unbelievable equaliser at the death?

Any forward averaging 2 from play is good. Massive bonus if they are the freetaker . Again I am not saying he is an all time great, I just don't get why people ignore his contribution from play."
Exactly he is good we are talking about great or in Clifford case potential GOAT.

I don't see anywhere where I haven't said he was good I can't think of a forward to defensive work better.

Just he wasn't a Joyce O'Neill McDonnell Canavan Cooper and elite great forward he was more a Niall Finnegan type.

A prime Kevin O'Neill would a got ye over the line.

I wouldn't pay heed to the lad who thinks a player who takes frees should score as much from play

jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1367 - 04/03/2025 19:02:16    2594764

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "So you want to take out the All Ireland semi final? Why? Add in the 4-03 in 2020 semi final if you want? 3 from play i think in 20 final v Dublin . I think 3 from play also in 17 final. 2 from play i think in 16 one an unbelievable equaliser at the death?

Any forward averaging 2 from play is good. Massive bonus if they are the freetaker . Again I am not saying he is an all time great, I just don't get why people ignore his contribution from play."
Exactly he is good we are talking about great or in Clifford case potential GOAT.

I don't see anywhere where I haven't said he was good I can't think of a forward to defensive work better.

Just he wasn't a Joyce O'Neill McDonnell Canavan Cooper and elite great forward he was more a Niall Finnegan type.

A prime Kevin O'Neill would a got ye over the line.

I wouldn't pay heed to the lad who thinks a player who takes frees should score as much from play

jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1367 - 04/03/2025 19:04:58    2594766

Link

Replying To jm25:  "Exactly he is good we are talking about great or in Clifford case potential GOAT.

I don't see anywhere where I haven't said he was good I can't think of a forward to defensive work better.

Just he wasn't a Joyce O'Neill McDonnell Canavan Cooper and elite great forward he was more a Niall Finnegan type.

A prime Kevin O'Neill would a got ye over the line.

I wouldn't pay heed to the lad who thinks a player who takes frees should score as much from play"
Again I wasn't debating where COC should stand in the list of great forwards. I was simply defending his scoring record. That's it.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8287 - 04/03/2025 19:12:47    2594769

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "Your post clearly is trying to say he was nothing more than a dead ball merchant.

As for people saying they don't like him? Perhaps you missed some posts on here. Or the multiple threads in the past where he is discussed. Some repeat posters."
Explain how my post was trying to suggest that?

I'm not talking about other threads. Show me where I said I disliked him? You're the one who made that comment on this thread.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1518 - 04/03/2025 19:15:51    2594770

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "Flynn made it look easy. But it didn't come easy to him.Pat Gilroy got a hold of him when he was an athlete but not the footballer he later became. Flynn worked very hard on his game and in particular on his kicking. He learned plenty about kicking too from Michael Murphy during their DCU days. A great role model and astute management from Gilroy. Few will agree but I'll argue in Cillian's case that we turned a very good twice Young Player of the Year into a freetaker. Cillian had so much more to offer as a footballer than just taking frees. He's a very good freetaker but in some games, when you know you have a Plan B good freetaker, your forwards are less encouraged and confident to try scoring from play. David Clifford is a great footballer that can take frees. Points from frees count the same as from play. Ask Dean Rock. Not a headline grabber but he played a vital role in the success of that great Dublin team."
Dean Rock was as important, if not, the most important part of that Dublin team. Most accurate free taker I've ever seen and always on the big occasion. He was first recognised for his points from play when he used to come on late in games.

O'Connor is a top inter-county forward, and was only a hair's width from being the main man on a great All=Ireland winning team, and on more than one occasion.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8702 - 04/03/2025 19:25:09    2594775

Link

Cillian played on the edge. He was not the only one and plenty of Kerry and Dublin players down the year have done so. That does not take away from the fact he was a heavy scorer for Mayo. The reason people will question or belittle his achievements is the same reason they laughed at Keegan and Moran getting player of the year…they didnt win a Celtic cross medal. Until Mayo do so we will be a laughing stock. That's the harsh truth of it but I don't lose any sleep over it. Much more important things in life to be worrying about.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11473 - 04/03/2025 20:56:20    2594790

Link

Replying To jm25:  "Exactly he is good we are talking about great or in Clifford case potential GOAT.

I don't see anywhere where I haven't said he was good I can't think of a forward to defensive work better.

Just he wasn't a Joyce O'Neill McDonnell Canavan Cooper and elite great forward he was more a Niall Finnegan type.

A prime Kevin O'Neill would a got ye over the line.

I wouldn't pay heed to the lad who thinks a player who takes frees should score as much from play"
Niall Finnegan who (according to Wikipedia) scored 2 championship goals during his career, both in connacht. Is that really an appropriate comparison?!

Cillian has scored 32 championship goals, although you probably want to discount the 3 against Kerry in 2014 yeah?

Nobody is suggesting Cillian is the GOAT gaelic football forward but the disrespect he gets around the country is unreal. There are forwards who come along and are good for a year or two that get way more praise than Cillian ever did.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 436 - 04/03/2025 21:21:52    2594797

Link

Replying To realdub:  "Dean Rock was as important, if not, the most important part of that Dublin team. Most accurate free taker I've ever seen and always on the big occasion. He was first recognised for his points from play when he used to come on late in games.

O'Connor is a top inter-county forward, and was only a hair's width from being the main man on a great All=Ireland winning team, and on more than one occasion."
he wouldn't lace matt connor's boots also maurice fitzgearld john Egan mike sheedy were as good as him.

oneshot (Tyrone) - Posts: 7 - 04/03/2025 22:26:36    2594805

Link

Clifford is no doubt skillful and has a decent body of work. Reminds me of the conversation of who was better between Maradona and Pele. When asked Pele said "ask me again when Maradona has scored more than 1000 goals". My point is the true valuation of greatness is not measured in months, years its measured over a longer period of time, and even at that its hard due to changes in environment, rules, technology and training. Do I think Clifford has a chance to enter into the conversation, possibly but not right now.

BostonGuy (Galway) - Posts: 147 - 05/03/2025 13:53:40    2594882

Link