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Replying To Whammo86: "I mean we've heard about structures going to be in place for the foreseeable a lot recently and them last 2 years.
The league nearly being the championship encourages me rather than discourages me. It nearly got over the line in spite being an unsuitable championship format, it was apparent to everyone that the suggested playoff qualification system wasn't sensible 5, 3, 1, 1 approach was bad, it was an adjusted version of an old league format. Whereas an adjusted version of a 2 groups of 8 historical league format would be really great for the championship.
4 from each group qualifying would preserve the quarterfinals but I'd think 3 from each would be a better competition.
You have a tendency to have a bottoms up approach that also is shared but much of the rest of the association, I'd suggest that it is a root cause of why we've got a bit of a mess of a season. First and foremost the championship needs to be fixed and I suggest that the association has to commit more in one direction." The current current group stage of 3 advancing was doomed for failure. It was a ridiculous idea. The majority expected top 2 only advancing to the quarter finals.
In groups of 4 with 2 advancing and Round 1 winners playing in Round 2, as they do in the Dublin Championship, the 1st and 4th placed teams playing in Round 3 could be a dead rubber. The 1st place team could already be group winners and the 4th placed team could already be eliminated. The double eliminator is very similar to that Dublin Championship group stage format, but with the added benefit that the dead rubber never materialises. The 2A winner have a round off until the quarter finals. The 2B loser is already eliminated with plenty of time for their club championships.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8633 - 27/03/2025 13:30:34
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Replying To legendzxix: "The current current group stage of 3 advancing was doomed for failure. It was a ridiculous idea. The majority expected top 2 only advancing to the quarter finals.
In groups of 4 with 2 advancing and Round 1 winners playing in Round 2, as they do in the Dublin Championship, the 1st and 4th placed teams playing in Round 3 could be a dead rubber. The 1st place team could already be group winners and the 4th placed team could already be eliminated. The double eliminator is very similar to that Dublin Championship group stage format, but with the added benefit that the dead rubber never materialises. The 2A winner have a round off until the quarter finals. The 2B loser is already eliminated with plenty of time for their club championships." If the brief is to have an All Ireland that's a maximum of 6 rounds long, has no dead rubbers and where everyone is guaranteed 2 fixtures the format is fine, it's close to the best that can be achieved.
The issue is that this is not a very ambitious brief and the game could be better served by thinking bigger about our championship.
One of the advantages of having tiered competition is to allow for more games whilst still retaining excitement levels because there's the jeopardy of relegation that we don't leverage at all in our competition.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4439 - 28/03/2025 09:51:09
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Replying To Whammo86: "If the brief is to have an All Ireland that's a maximum of 6 rounds long, has no dead rubbers and where everyone is guaranteed 2 fixtures the format is fine, it's close to the best that can be achieved.
The issue is that this is not a very ambitious brief and the game could be better served by thinking bigger about our championship.
One of the advantages of having tiered competition is to allow for more games whilst still retaining excitement levels because there's the jeopardy of relegation that we don't leverage at all in our competition." Like -
Club football
Club and County hurling
Club and County Camogie
Club and County Ladies football.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2174 - 28/03/2025 10:27:27
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Like -
Club football
Club and County hurling
Club and County Camogie
Club and County Ladies football." There is more than one way to skin a cat. Champions League - Europa League - Conference League is a tiered structure with qualification.
The club championships have the tiered structure of Senior - Intermediate - Junior with promotion and relegation.
If Gaelic Football ultimately has All Ireland - Tailteann Cup as a tiered structure with qualification, so be it. Some for of Tier 3 Cup could be added in the future.
The Tailteann Cup winner guarantees the same 16 don't take part in the All Ireland on consecutive years. The qualification format also allows for the possibility of more than one new team from the previous year gaining qualification.
Mayo or butter, beef or salmon, tea or coffee??? Tiered qualification or tiered promotion and relegation? Either serves a purpose. Just depends on which gains more support to be agreed upon.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8633 - 28/03/2025 11:31:43
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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8628 - 28/03/2025
My AILC 3-tier AI is alin to ChL, EL, CfL and has 2-4 up/down for 2-tier league phase.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3163 - 28/03/2025 13:35:16
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Replying To omahant: "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8628 - 28/03/2025
My AILC 3-tier AI is alin to ChL, EL, CfL and has 2-4 up/down for 2-tier league phase." Personally not interested in that double up notion. It had its day in the sun and didn't gain any traction. The league final part of the Munster Hurling Championship match was a mere after thought.
The following provincial final pairings would shake up the All Ireland Football Championship!!
Fermanagh v Antrim
Offaly v Kildare
Limerick v Tipperary
Sligo v London
9 of last year's All Ireland 16 would be consigned to the Tailteann Cup!
While Cork haven't been too far away on the scoreboard against Kerry in recent years and Clare under Peter Keane could be tricky, at this time of writing it is hard to be enthusiastic about the Munster Championship. It is a big dip after the league. Clare could be tricky opponents this year though, similar to Limerick under Kerrymen! I foresee a tricky Munster campaign but with the drop in standard, it doesn't whet the appetite.
Galway v Mayo and Donegal v Armagh last year are what provincial finals should be all about. Not foregone conclusions assisted by lopsided provincial draws where some county panels are content for a soft route to a provincial final that doesn't even gain the support of their own people.
Clare people voted with their feet last year. It was a very poor attendance in Ennis for a Munster final. Clare having to beat Waterford or Tipperary to make a Munster final did not have the respect of their own people. It is absolutely farcical that the lopsided situation is allowed to continue.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8633 - 29/03/2025 06:12:51
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Replying To legendzxix: "There is more than one way to skin a cat. Champions League - Europa League - Conference League is a tiered structure with qualification.
The club championships have the tiered structure of Senior - Intermediate - Junior with promotion and relegation.
If Gaelic Football ultimately has All Ireland - Tailteann Cup as a tiered structure with qualification, so be it. Some for of Tier 3 Cup could be added in the future.
The Tailteann Cup winner guarantees the same 16 don't take part in the All Ireland on consecutive years. The qualification format also allows for the possibility of more than one new team from the previous year gaining qualification.
Mayo or butter, beef or salmon, tea or coffee??? Tiered qualification or tiered promotion and relegation? Either serves a purpose. Just depends on which gains more support to be agreed upon." Well no not really to be honest.
It's pretty tough to have an intense qualifying standard and not have meaningless games with out having the threat of relegation.
The Rugby Champions Cup suffers from that issue, the UEFA Champions League kind of still does. People liked the novelty of this season's competition and thought the league section was exciting but I don't think people fully know what the competition is like yet. Liverpool topped the group and ended up with a last 16 tie against PSG, there's so much variance in football that sort of thing may not be an anomaly so will topping the league phase been that important ever?
International football and rugby can struggle at getting the top teams playing one another regularly.
At least these are continental or international competitions, there's constraints around their organisation, there's no excuse for it for a National Championship.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4439 - 29/03/2025 14:52:31
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Replying To Whammo86: "Well no not really to be honest.
It's pretty tough to have an intense qualifying standard and not have meaningless games with out having the threat of relegation.
The Rugby Champions Cup suffers from that issue, the UEFA Champions League kind of still does. People liked the novelty of this season's competition and thought the league section was exciting but I don't think people fully know what the competition is like yet. Liverpool topped the group and ended up with a last 16 tie against PSG, there's so much variance in football that sort of thing may not be an anomaly so will topping the league phase been that important ever?
International football and rugby can struggle at getting the top teams playing one another regularly.
At least these are continental or international competitions, there's constraints around their organisation, there's no excuse for it for a National Championship." At the end of the UCL 'league phase', Arne Slot voiced that with his team 1st, the format was "strange", given how the KO rolls out.
Separately, I believe Brazil and Spain have never met in a WC group stage tie - given no Finals blowouts anymore, would an open draw freshen things up (groups still with Continental diversity).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3163 - 29/03/2025 17:29:58
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Replying To Whammo86: "Well no not really to be honest.
It's pretty tough to have an intense qualifying standard and not have meaningless games with out having the threat of relegation.
The Rugby Champions Cup suffers from that issue, the UEFA Champions League kind of still does. People liked the novelty of this season's competition and thought the league section was exciting but I don't think people fully know what the competition is like yet. Liverpool topped the group and ended up with a last 16 tie against PSG, there's so much variance in football that sort of thing may not be an anomaly so will topping the league phase been that important ever?
International football and rugby can struggle at getting the top teams playing one another regularly.
At least these are continental or international competitions, there's constraints around their organisation, there's no excuse for it for a National Championship." Liverpool peaked too soon and were too reliant on Salah for results. PSG knew that keeping him quiet was half the battle. PSG are a much better team without galacticos, they've heart and stomach for a fight. Villa have nothing close to Salah's class but I think they'll get through to semis because they've a nice few attacking threats. I don't think the league stages of this season's Champions League was exciting. There was just more games so hyping one or two good games every night, from a bigger list, put a gloss on it.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7859 - 29/03/2025 18:00:09
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Liverpool peaked too soon and were too reliant on Salah for results. PSG knew that keeping him quiet was half the battle. PSG are a much better team without galacticos, they've heart and stomach for a fight. Villa have nothing close to Salah's class but I think they'll get through to semis because they've a nice few attacking threats. I don't think the league stages of this season's Champions League was exciting. There was just more games so hyping one or two good games every night, from a bigger list, put a gloss on it." PSG should dispatch with Villa handily enough.
The rest of your post I agree with.
I think there was a general positive reaction to the new league phase and there were certainly more big games as a result, I'd be in your camp though it wasn't that exciting. The more people become familiar with it and that the knockout stages are still where it's at I think the limitations will be increasingly apparent.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4439 - 29/03/2025 20:00:13
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Replying To Whammo86: "Well no not really to be honest.
It's pretty tough to have an intense qualifying standard and not have meaningless games with out having the threat of relegation.
The Rugby Champions Cup suffers from that issue, the UEFA Champions League kind of still does. People liked the novelty of this season's competition and thought the league section was exciting but I don't think people fully know what the competition is like yet. Liverpool topped the group and ended up with a last 16 tie against PSG, there's so much variance in football that sort of thing may not be an anomaly so will topping the league phase been that important ever?
International football and rugby can struggle at getting the top teams playing one another regularly.
At least these are continental or international competitions, there's constraints around their organisation, there's no excuse for it for a National Championship." The double eliminator might be more suitable for a championship without relegation than a group stage.
On top teams playing each other more, hard to achieve without losing the full compliment of quarter finals. If only having two quarter finals was acceptable, 2 groups of 6 could suit with a reduced league schedule freeing up weekends.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8633 - 29/03/2025 21:53:16
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Replying To Whammo86: "PSG should dispatch with Villa handily enough.
The rest of your post I agree with.
I think there was a general positive reaction to the new league phase and there were certainly more big games as a result, I'd be in your camp though it wasn't that exciting. The more people become familiar with it and that the knockout stages are still where it's at I think the limitations will be increasingly apparent." Yeah, the new UCL is over sold - it's really a race for 8th & 24th. The KO phase should be amended - two ideas:
1) 1v24, 2v23....12v13 etc; 12 winners (4 highest seeds to QFs & other 8 to PQFs).
2) 14 to 25 play two one-legged playoff rds; 3 join top 13 in Rd of 16.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3163 - 30/03/2025 03:48:56
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For 2026, I'd tweak to:
Rd 1A: 4 Prov Finals
Rd 1B: 4 Other ' High v Low Seed' ties
Rd 2A: 4 'Rd 1A v Rd 1B' winners
Rd 2B: 4 'Rd 1A v Rd 1B' losers
Rd 3: 4 'Rd 2A losers' v 'Rd 2B winners'
QFs: 4 'Rd 2A v Rd 3' winners
SFs
F
Modest, but saves more precious time in a tight schedule.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3163 - 30/03/2025 18:52:55
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Heard a great idea with the champions league. The top seed should get to pick who they face from non seeds in last 16. Creates a draft and element of choosing your destiny by earning that right.
I'd love to see it come into GAA too for knockouts.
What craic it would generate.
shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 290 - 31/03/2025 14:33:45
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The New format for the 2026 All Ireland will probably last in format, but not in qualification.
As long as the 4 losing interprovincial finalists get auto entry to the Sam Maguire, you dont have a proper merit based qualification. In any year where Mayo/Galway and Roscommon are on the same side of the draw in Connacht and where Kerry and Cork are on the same side in Munster, your getting auto qualification for teams who aren't good enough for that standard. A similar scenario would be the case in Leinster if Louth/Meath and Dublin had been on the same side of the draw this year.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1284 - 31/03/2025 17:32:24
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Replying To legendzxix: "Personally not interested in that double up notion. It had its day in the sun and didn't gain any traction. The league final part of the Munster Hurling Championship match was a mere after thought.
The following provincial final pairings would shake up the All Ireland Football Championship!!
Fermanagh v Antrim
Offaly v Kildare
Limerick v Tipperary
Sligo v London
9 of last year's All Ireland 16 would be consigned to the Tailteann Cup!
While Cork haven't been too far away on the scoreboard against Kerry in recent years and Clare under Peter Keane could be tricky, at this time of writing it is hard to be enthusiastic about the Munster Championship. It is a big dip after the league. Clare could be tricky opponents this year though, similar to Limerick under Kerrymen! I foresee a tricky Munster campaign but with the drop in standard, it doesn't whet the appetite.
Galway v Mayo and Donegal v Armagh last year are what provincial finals should be all about. Not foregone conclusions assisted by lopsided provincial draws where some county panels are content for a soft route to a provincial final that doesn't even gain the support of their own people.
Clare people voted with their feet last year. It was a very poor attendance in Ennis for a Munster final. Clare having to beat Waterford or Tipperary to make a Munster final did not have the respect of their own people. It is absolutely farcical that the lopsided situation is allowed to continue." So Clare folk are like Kerry's for semi finals.
19616609 (Louth) - Posts: 1675 - 31/03/2025 20:15:24
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